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10/28 Kiper big board and positional rankings

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mayoclinic, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mel Kiper's latest big board is out, as well as positional rankings (top 5 at each position for seniors and for juniors):

    Mel Kiper's Big Board -- The top 25 NFL prospects - ESPN
    Mel Kiper's Top 5 senior NFL prospects at each position - ESPN
    Mel Kiper's Top 5 junior NFL prospects at each position - ESPN

    Kiper current has Jason Pierre-Paul at #13, Everson Griffen at #14, and Rolando McClain at #15. Greg Hardy is at #21, Brandon Spikes at #24, Jerry Hughes at #21 and Sergio Kindle at #25.

    The Junior DE class is pretty loaded. Kiper currently has them ranked:

    1. Carlos Dunlap, Florida. 6'6" 290#
    2. Jason Pierre-Paul, USF. 6'6" 265#
    3. Everson Griffen, USC. 6'3", 280#.
    4. Derrick Morgan, Georgia Tech. 6'4", 275#.
    5. Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh. 6'6", 270#.

    And that doesn't even include junior DE Jeremy Beals from Oklahoma (6'3", 260#), who's been tearing up the Big 12 this season.
     
  2. coltsfan

    coltsfan On the Game Day Roster

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    I'm curious how he ranks the DTs. Lots of good Juniors for the Colts to look at, Marvin Austin, Brian Price, etc.

    Hopefully you don't end up with someone like Eric Norwood, he's a stud.
     
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kiper rates the DTs as follows:

    Seniors

    1. Ndamukong Suh
    2. Terrance Cody
    3. Jared Odrick
    4. Arthur Jones
    5. Vince Oghobasse

    Juniors

    1. Gerald McCoy
    2. Brian Price
    3. Marvin Austin
    4. Jarvis Jenkins
    5. Phil Taylor

    Hope that helps.

    Eric Norwood's a nice player. I've been touting him for over a year. He got a lot of press early this season so I've been focusing on other players, but he's certainly someone for us to look at. I personally think he projects more to SILB than to 3-4 OLB in our system, but he's an Adalius Thomas kind of guy who could move around and play a number of different positions (SILB, 4-3 SAM, 3-4 OLB, possibly even some DE). He's very strong, sheds blockers well, and has a nose for the ball.
     
  4. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Suh is not going to last past pick #3, he is an absolutle beast and with more and more teams moving to the 3-4, I can't see him dropping lower than #3.

    The DT ranks should go:

    1. Suh
    2. Mt. Cody

    and then everyone else,

    Far be it for me to every doubt a player from the Cuse', Jones is good, but he is not in the other 2s league.
     
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, but Gerald McCoy is. Realistically it will go:

    1. Suh
    1a. McCoy
    3. Mt. Cody

    Those 3 guys should go top 15, the first 2 top 10 and possibly both top 5. Then a considerable drop off to Arthur Jones and Jared Odrick.
     
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What ranking the players are, is irrelevant. How each player fits into your scheme is the true game.

    McCoy is a decent 4-3 DT, but would be terrible as a 3-4 NT.

    Mount Cody is the best 3-4 NT to come out of college in a long long time, but his lack of pass rushing skills means he probably would only work well in a 4-3 defense, if he had a great pass rushing undertackle as the other DT, similar to what the Vikings do with the Williams.

    Oghobasse could be a true hybrid. He would work well in the 4-3 as a DT but might have more upside as a 3-4 DE, depending on how he runs and how strong he is.

    I expect BB to take a D lIne player fairly high in this next draft.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  7. coltsfan

    coltsfan On the Game Day Roster

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    I guess I need to find a way to watch Jarvis Jenkins, as I'm pretty familiar with the other Juniors. I take it that Jenkins would be a late 2nd round type?

    I thought you guys were playing more 4-3 than 3-4 this year? You certainly did against Denver.
     
  8. coltsfan

    coltsfan On the Game Day Roster

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    What can you guys tell me about Jones? I've never seen him. Could he play in a scheme like the Colts', or is he more of a 3-4 DE type? How would yall compare him to Odrick?
     
  9. coltsfan

    coltsfan On the Game Day Roster

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    I could tell you this, the Colts would take McCoy if they had the #1 pick in the draft. You couldn't take more than a 3 step drop against the Colts if we finally had a dominant player like that lined up next to Freeney or Mathis. So yeah, it depends on the scheme all the way, bc both he and Suh are great players.
     
  10. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's no Dwight Freeney if that is what you are asking. Jones is a very good player on a bad team. He plays DE at Syracuse but they move him around to try and mess up the other teams blocking schemes (becuase basically he is the only guy you have to block). He is 6'3" 290ish, he lives in the offensive backfield, would be an outstanding 4-3 inside tackle, he would be an excellent DE in a 3-4 defense (although he lacks the height that BB likes in that position). His 40 times will be about 5 flat. He will most likely get drafted in last third of the first round.

    Of course, if your Indy, and every Syracuse player you ever drafted, ends up in the HOF, I'd take a shot at him.
     
  11. coltsfan

    coltsfan On the Game Day Roster

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    Nah, I realized that he'd be a DT for the Colts. Is he a penetrator type like the Colts look for in a DT? That's what I'm wondering. For example, I'm not sure that Odrick is a penetrating type like the Colts usually look for, IMO he may be a better fit as a 3-4 DE for a team like the Pats.

    Also, could he play NT in the NFL, or is he more of a UT? If he can't play NT, then I think Marvin Austin or Brian Price could be more likely for the Colts. I don't see the Colts taking a pure UT unless it was a special guy like McCoy that you couldn't pass up, since we drafted Moala last year and also have a decent player in Foster.
     
  12. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    It may not be an probowler at every position but the Patriots have the benefit of having no glaring holes heading into next year (assumes no CBA).

    Ghost & Mankins could be tagged as RFAs
    Wilfork could be franchised (if people don't think Big Vince is valuable watch when the Patriots play against the Wildcat, he is the key)

    They can add even more depth to a very good team.
     
  13. Marqui

    Marqui In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would say we have a really huge hole at passrushing OLB.
     
  14. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    How's Brandon Spikes ranked by Mel?

    Mayo/Spikes inside, with Spikes able to rush the passer as well, and covers TEs and Rbs well.
     
  15. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Practice Squad Player

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    I don't think the premier DT's are going to last until the Colts pick. Teams like the Titans, Texans, Jets (Jenkins is getting up there), Steelers (Hampton is getting up there), Chargers (Jamal Williams is getting up there), Lions, Bucks, Panthers, Seahawks, and Rams could all use help at that position. Also, all of those teams have a worse record than the Colts, and most likely will be picking before you. No sarcasm or offense intended, but I'm just telling it like it is.
     
  16. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Every unit can be improved but at OLB the Patriots have:
    Thomas, TBC, Cable - under contract
    Ninkovich - Restricted Free Agent

    Just an example why the Patriots may not be stacked at every spot but there is no need to reach.
     
  17. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thomas will be cut next year....salary vs production...lost some of his athletism
    TBC best of a limited group, cost effective starter, good motor
    Crable...will never play a single down for the Patriots
    Burgess...his role has expanded but the eye test doesn't see results

    Far from being stacked, this group is weakest on roster and lacks athletism...JMO
     
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I would agree 100% that the OLB is the weakest and least athletic spot on the roster. But it is also the hardest to find via the draft. BB passed on at least a half dozen decent OLB's in the draft last year. All brought something a little diffeent to the position so he had a wide variety to pick from, but he passed.

    Maybe for upgrading the OLB spot, we should really be concentrating on potential FA that will be available. Is there a young version of Brabel in this year's potential FA pool?
     
  19. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't say there were stacked, I said 'They may not be stacked'

    IMO the Patriots OLB/DE are among the weakest units in the league. But they are bringing back most of the current unit so if they want to run out the same horse crap next year then it is their option.
     
  20. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So would you bring back Thomas next season?
     

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