1/3rd of the way through the season, the offseason criticism of Belichick seems way off base

[upstater1]

Having Karras still around would have been nice. Kicking Onwenu out to RT would have been an option rather than benching Wynn and the ghost of Marcus Cannon back and forth in favor of the other. The OL depth is still just hanging on by a thread.

One thing I'll eat my crow on (for now) is the secondary. I thought losing Jackson without significant investment to replace him would expose the other CBs. Nope. I don't even think the reason is necessarily Jack Jones, either. Everyone is just doing their job.

I'll also admit I was wrong on Mason. Thought we were giving up our best OL for virtually nothing, and spending a 1st to fix a problem we chose to create. Hasn't worked out that way so far.

I think it's also become clear that the offense can at least be functional under Patricia when the players don't make stupid ball security mistakes. Not really worried about the scheme anymore.

Karras is a huge liability for Cincinnati. He's gotten Burrow killed

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I don't know. We are 3-3. And currently in last place in the division. We are also in the middle of a QB controversy as well which means it is possible Bill missed badly on Mac at pick 15 while a guy like Zappe in the 4th round seems more akin to running the offense in a Brady-like fashion.
Let's see how the rest of the season rolls as Bill's decision at QB is going to be monumental to the success/failure of this season.

Sounds like Felger - doesn't matter how wrong you've been, you'll keep on with it, just plugging in new made-up controversies.

 

[203Pat]

If you are ignoring the fact that some fans and media members are still butt-hurt about the events of summer 2018 in a thread about the reasons why BB got ripped in the off-season, then you're being incredibly naive. Now that the coaching is looking solid, a lot of the same are silent or even back-tracking. Oh well, the general public has a short attention span. They'll find some new thing to stir up to try to look relevant and keep the clicks coming.

I have seen multiple people in this thread alone admit they were wrong on some of the decisions. That is what you do when presented with new information. You adjust your opinion. I would rather state what I think and be wrong than just have blind faith so I can logon to a message board and say "I told you so" to a bunch of anonymous strangers but that's just me.

 

[upstater1]

I have seen multiple people in this thread alone admit they were wrong on some of the decisions. That is what you do when presented with new information. You adjust your opinion. I would rather state what I think and be wrong than just have blind faith so I can logon to a message board and say "I told you so" to a bunch of anonymous strangers but that's just me.

After 25 years of watching Belichick, it really boggles my mind that people doubt him at all.

I'm incredulous at the things people write about him.

I've been watching this team since the mid 1970s. I think I know mediocre coaching when I see it.

This is why I posted. It is not only an "I told you so" but a "Damn what are some people thinking???"

A few people called for Belichick's firing, and I know that's a crazy outlier that the vast majority thought was wild, but I'll say this: BB would get snapped up by a more than 2/3rds of the teams in this league. I imagine the only ones that wouldn't take him would be Buffalo, KC, San Fran, Baltimore, and maybe the Rams. Everyone else would have a talk with him.

 

[farn]

OP « BB doing a good job »
Patsfans « hmmm, something smells fishy here »

Options ?
(1) BB vs Tom
(2) But but the drafting
(3) I hate Wynn

 

[moosekill]

I don't know. We are 3-3. And currently in last place in the division. We are also in the middle of a QB controversy as well which means it is possible Bill missed badly on Mac at pick 15 while a guy like Zappe in the 4th round seems more akin to running the offense in a Brady-like fashion.
Let's see how the rest of the season rolls as Bill's decision at QB is going to be monumental to the success/failure of this season.

Your chiefs lost yesterday, don't be salty.

 

[archstanton543]

Is BB one of the best coaches ever? Yes

Can you criticize him? Also yes.

If you criticize BB does that make you less of a fan than anyone else? No.

 

[Bill Lee]

I have seen multiple people in this thread alone admit they were wrong on some of the decisions. That is what you do when presented with new information. You adjust your opinion. I would rather state what I think and be wrong than just have blind faith so I can logon to a message board and say "I told you so" to a bunch of anonymous strangers but that's just me.

Here's an another approach to this kind of situation: wait and gather some data before you shoot off your mouth.

Naw, it's more cool to be in first with the snarky hawt takez.

Our "Time to get rid of Matt Patricia" thread started on Sept 26th, an entire three games into the season.

Tar was fully boiled, pitchforks fully sharpened.

No faith that the GOAT coach may actually be more focused on the bigger picture rather than winning three games, maybe the pieces of the puzzle might take some time to fall into place.

Turns out things aren't working out too bad.

Turns out Matt has won half his games, whereas Josh with all his offensive coaching prowess and experience with similar on-field talent (Carr, Davante Adams, Josh Jacobs, et al) has won one of five.

I'd suggest giving that long term picture thing a bit more of a chance.

 

[crawhammer]

After 25 years of watching Belichick, it really boggles my mind that people doubt him at all.

Any doubts after the team started out 5-13?
Any doubts after they went from 16-0 to missing the postseason?
Any doubts after deferring to the Jets in OT and handing the ball off 25 times to Jackson and Bolden with the 1 seed in the balance?
Any doubts after that drubbing with Malcolm Butler on the sideline?
Any doubts after a lost season with Cam Newton?
Any doubts after Buffalo went touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown on consecutive drives in the worst postseason loss of Belichick's career?

These are rhetorical questions so no need to actually provide an answer.

The draft class is making some impressive contributions and the offense looks transformed with Zappe at quarterback so obviously there are major positives right now. But are we throwing a parade for 3-3 and last place? It just seems a bit early to take a victory lap. Very likely they'll be 7-3 heading into week 12. That's when they'll have an opportunity to pile up some meaningful wins against quality opponents. Unless you're buying into the Jets, which I'm not. I'll say this, if Belichick can somehow coach this team to a division title this season, then his doubters will have a lot less to say.

 

[ashley]

Any doubts after the team started out 5-13?
Any doubts after they went from 16-0 to missing the postseason?
Any doubts after deferring to the Jets in OT and handing the ball off 25 times to Jackson and Bolden with the 1 seed in the balance?
Any doubts after that drubbing with Malcolm Butler on the sideline?
Any doubts after a lost season with Cam Newton?
Any doubts after Buffalo went touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown on consecutive drives in the worst postseason loss of Belichick's career?

These are rhetorical questions so no need to actually provide an answer.

The draft class is making some impressive contributions and the offense looks transformed with Zappe at quarterback so obviously there are major positives right now. But are we throwing a parade for 3-3 and last place? It just seems a bit early to take a victory lap. Very likely they'll be 7-3 heading into week 12. That's when they'll have an opportunity to pile up some meaningful wins against quality opponents. Unless you're buying into the Jets, which I'm not. I'll say this, if Belichick can somehow coach this team to a division title this season, then his doubters will have a lot less to say.

This kind of thread is tough for you. It's like dangling candy in front of a baby that needs a sugar rush.

I don't think the GOAT has too many doubters....maybe one here and there, but next week he'll be number 2 on the all-time win list, with only Shula next in line. With all the bad coaching in the league, he has no equal. All Patriot fans will be sorry when he's gone and will be wishing he was back. Hoping he can get us rolling again!!! Are you ready Dave?

 

[203Pat]

Is BB one of the best coaches ever? Yes

Can you criticize him? Also yes.

If you criticize BB does that make you less of a fan than anyone else? No.

Hang this quote in the rafters of Patsfans.com.

Here's an another approach to this kind of situation: wait and gather some data before you shoot off your mouth.

Naw, it's more cool to be in first with the snarky hawt takez.

Our "Time to get rid of Matt Patricia" thread started on Sept 26th, an entire three games into the season.

Tar was fully boiled, pitchforks fully sharpened.

No faith that the GOAT coach may actually be more focused on the bigger picture rather than winning three games, maybe the pieces of the puzzle might take some time to fall into place.

Turns out things aren't working out too bad.

Turns out Matt has won half his games, whereas Josh with all his offensive coaching prowess and experience with similar on-field talent (Carr, Davante Adams, Josh Jacobs, et al) has won one of five.

I'd suggest giving that long term picture thing a bit more of a chance.

You do realize this is a message board right? Are we supposed to have thread after thread discussing who might end up at right guard or which receiver will take the coveted 5th spot on the depth chart? Of course we are going to talk about the major things going on.

Also we are 3-3. We aren't exactly one of the best teams in the league and have recently beat 3 bad teams and lost to 3 above average teams so this whole victory lap you're doing seems a bit premature.

 

[patfanken]

Karras is a huge liability for Cincinnati. He's gotten Burrow killed

Karras was ALWAYS a solid back up who has some position flexibility, nothing more. As a starter he was average at best. Now I wasn't thrilled to see Strange grabbed in the first round. My pick would have been Elam in the first, Joshua Williams in the 4th (I love tall CB's and this guy was JoeJuan Williams with speed to burn) and Pickens in the 2nd and get a interior OLman in the 3rd or 4th. Maybe MJones would have been there in the 4th

BUT Strange has been good thus far and has an even better upside, The Jones boys have been revelations. Zappe (another supposed reach) Thornton and Roberts have also been effective and Schooler looks like he's going to take the ST keys from Slater. Hard to hate that number of picks. I always think that the true test of a draft is how many make it to the 2nd contract.

If you get 3 starters and a couple of role players in a draft you've hit a home run. So far we might get 4 starters (Thornton, Jones and Jones and Strange) Role players in Roberts, Zappe, and Schooler. IF that plays out that will be a HUGE win.

 

[Bill Lee]

You do realize this is a message board right? Are we supposed to have thread after thread discussing who might end up at right guard or which receiver will take the coveted 5th spot on the depth chart? Of course we are going to talk about the major things going on.

Discuss away, just be prepared to be blasted for positions you take based on little to no data.

Also we are 3-3. We aren't exactly one of the best teams in the league and have recently beat 3 bad teams and lost to 3 above average teams so this whole victory lap you're doing seems a bit premature.

Show me where I wrote anything about us being one of the best teams in the league, or admit you're just pulling stuff out your azz.

 

[upstater1]

Karras was ALWAYS a solid back up who has some position flexibility, nothing more. As a starter he was average at best. Now I wasn't thrilled to see Strange grabbed in the first round. My pick would have been Elam in the first, Joshua Williams in the 4th (I love tall CB's and this guy was JoeJuan Williams with speed to burn) and Pickens in the 2nd and get a interior OLman in the 3rd or 4th. Maybe MJones would have been there in the 4th

BUT Strange has been good thus far and has an even better upside, The Jones boys have been revelations. Zappe (another supposed reach) Thornton and Roberts have also been effective and Schooler looks like he's going to take the ST keys from Slater. Hard to hate that number of picks. I always think that the true test of a draft is how many make it to the 2nd contract.

If you get 3 starters and a couple of role players in a draft you've hit a home run. So far we might get 4 starters (Thornton, Jones and Jones and Strange) Role players in Roberts, Zappe, and Schooler. IF that plays out that will be a HUGE win.

We had to trade up though for Thornton with the ammunition we built by trading down, so not sure we get Pickens at all. Plus, I think the Steelers really wanted Thornton since their WR coach is his former coach at Baylor.

Elam was beaten out as starter by their 6th rounder Benford, which speaks well for Benford, or perhaps poor for Elam.

M. Jones was very highly regarded--as soon as he was taken, there was a run on CBs.

The draft is so hard. I personally wanted Devin Lloyd with the first pick, but you probably miss out on Strange and Thornton if you stay put with Lloyd.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think they will make a push in the next 3 games beating the Bears and the Colts. The Jets suddenly don't look like pushovers. They could be 6-3 or 5-4 at worst with their meeting with the Vikings on the road. The following week, they'll be looking for revenge in the Bills game in primetime so that will be a good one. If they can beat the Vikings and Bills going 8-3 or 7-4, that would make the AFC interesting.

 

[Family]

I don't know. We are 3-3. And currently in last place in the division. We are also in the middle of a QB controversy as well which means it is possible Bill missed badly on Mac at pick 15 while a guy like Zappe in the 4th round seems more akin to running the offense in a Brady-like fashion.
Let's see how the rest of the season rolls as Bill's decision at QB is going to be monumental to the success/failure of this season.

They have only one more loss than anyone else in the AFC except Buffalo, despite playing half the season with their third string QB.

Bill's also picked and developed the best QB in the draft two years in a row.

But you see this as negative.

 

[upstater1]

Is BB one of the best coaches ever? Yes

Can you criticize him? Also yes.

If you criticize BB does that make you less of a fan than anyone else? No.

Less of a fan of BB? Yes.

I outlined the list of criticisms that seemed unwarranted at the time. That's what the list is.

I don't think this game has passed Belichick by

 

[Toofy]

with this talent we should ideally be bottom feeders and technically competing with jags , lions, panthers for the bottom spot. but here we are competing , with a fighting chance to have a life in post season and that too with 3rd string QB. Thats down to coaching and bill should get credit for it.

now if our tight ends start coming to party and our second round WR starts flying, things get super interesting for our team and next year we have one of the top 4 cap spaces and all draft picks intact with one nice high 3rd round pick from panthers. We will probably be like eagles next season depending on how Mac/ Zappe pan out.

do we absolve Bill for the poor drafts which caused this situation. absolutely not. but last two drafts have right'ed the ship to a certain extent and if we spend FA dollars wisely next season we should be in a pretty good spot.

 

[Pats2000]

This isn't the first time Bill has been doubted or criticized. The doubt and tears from his haters is what has fuelled and sustained this dynasty for two decades.

Didn't you spend the whole first month ripping BB for his extended pre season comments?

 

[Bill Lee]

with this talent we should ideally be bottom feeders and technically competing with jags , lions, panthers for the bottom spot. but here we are competing , with a fighting chance to have a life in post season and that too with 3rd string QB. Thats down to coaching and bill should get credit for it.

now if our tight ends start coming to party and our second round WR starts flying, things get super interesting for our team and next year we have one of the top 4 cap spaces and all draft picks intact with one nice high 3rd round pick from panthers. We will probably be like eagles next season depending on how Mac/ Zappe pan out.

do we absolve Bill for the poor drafts which caused this situation. absolutely not. but last two drafts have right'ed the ship to a certain extent and if we spend FA dollars wisely next season we should be in a pretty good spot.

So close to getting it, but you miss at the end.

If the drafts were as poor as some make out, we would be with the Jags, Lions and Panthers, but we're not.

Then, factor in that we've never bottomed out like the Jete, Jags, Lions and Panthers so we've never had primo draft position, and you get a better idea on how great this staff is.

You need to put drafting into the proper context. No one is great at it. The fact we had the longest dynasty in NFL history and even the post-dynasty rebuild has featured some decent teams shows the front office is top notch when it comes to team building.