Celtics 2023 - 2024 Discussion

bresna said:

I don't know exactly what your point is though...

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if they’re playing against teams like Milwaukee, Denver, etc with small margins to victory, giving the most inefficient player on the team the second most usage is the difference between winning and losing.

bresna said:

every team needs a player like Brown who can drive the lane and take the defense with him.

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Not really…Brown isn’t that unique. These guys are all world NBA players who can drive with athleticism. Brown just shoots a lot. Virtually every area of shooting is below average but his overall field goal pct is inflated because he takes so many inefficient 2 point shots. Tatum is a far superior player in every aspect and can drive, kick out, and read defenses.

bresna said:

I don't think stats like the ones you've posted take into account how these outside shooters have such high shooting percentages.

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The on/off I’ve posted throughout the season show it. Tatum creates spacing. White creates spacing. Brown creates bottlenecks.

bresna said:

It might have something to do with the shots being wide open half of the time because someone drove the lane and sent it out to the uncovered shooter on the perimeter.

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Again the Celtics offense averages more points per possession with Brown off the court then on the court. Sure, you can find examples of him drawing defenders and kicking out. Overall the stats prove he doesn’t do this at an efficient rate. He is the team’s black hole by a laughable margin when it comes to passing. Tatum and White boost the team offensive efficiency on a consistent basis. Brown stalls it.

bresna said:

That being said, Brown's free throw shooting sucks and I would hate to have him on the free throw line with the game in the balance.

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It’s inexcusable. 71% for a guy under 6’7” whose entire game is based on shooting and also drawing fouls. He’s also not a good 3 point shooter. The same type of “open space” shots apply to him that apply to White, Hauser, Pritchard, Holiday, Tatum etc.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Not really…Brown isn’t that unique. These guys are all world NBA players who can drive with athleticism. Brown just shoots a lot. Virtually every area of shooting is below average but his overall field goal pct is inflated because he takes so many inefficient 2 point shots. Tatum is a far superior player in every aspect and can drive, kick out, and read defenses.

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I'd rather see Brown taking it to the hoop against a tough defender than Tatum. Tatum's work at the hoop is more nuanced and his athleticism frees up his shot quite often. Lately, the refs have not been giving him many fouls on these moves.

On the other hand, Brown goes through defenders and can pick up fouls where Tatum doesn't. When you have a team with a good defender at the basket, you need a guy going at him every now & then, not around him whenever possible. There's something to be said for getting the other team's best defender in foul trouble. This team rarely does that.

I'll tell you another thing, there have been several games this year when Tatum was isolated on top, dribbling out the clock & just waiting to take his fadaway 3 (clang) where I really wished it was Brown driving the lane instead.

bresna said:

I'll tell you another thing,

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bresna said:

there have been several games this year when Tatum was isolated on top, dribbling out the clock & just waiting to take his fadaway 3 (clang) where I really wished it was Brown driving the lane instead.

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Brown is at his best taking high difficulty spin/fadeaway shots (oddly) so yes I’d say he is the guy I’d want shooting in a desperation mode where the shot needs to be forced anyway. But those situations are rarely forced by circumstances of the game and more often forced by Brown (or sometimes Tatum.) They usually happen when Mazulla caters to one of the two Js by letting them rub the offense in 4Q close games while two of the best point guards in the NBA (literally) run off to the corners and scratch their asses. This is why despite their incredible record they still lose almost every difficult road game when a team can go wire to wire with them.

Did Mazzulla say why he kept the starters in for 70-85% of this early game? Tatum played 41 minutes and looked out of gas by the end when he missed that open layup. Mazzulla is going to burn them out in the first round if he keeps this up. Playoffs can end up being a lot of games. If each round goes to 7 games, it's another 28 games. That's another third of a regular season.

Yes, every game is important, but they need 15 more wins. I don't think he should be playing the starters in game 1 of the opening round like it's game 7 of the finals.

bresna said:

Did Mazzulla say why he kept the starters in for 70-85% of this early game? Tatum played 41 minutes and looked out of gas by the end when he missed that open layup. Mazzulla is going to burn them out in the first round if he keeps this up. Playoffs can end up being a lot of games. If each round goes to 7 games, it's another 28 games. That's another third of a regular season.

Yes, every game is important, but they need 15 more wins. I don't think he should be playing the starters in game 1 of the opening round like it's game 7 of the finals.

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My guess is he wants to get off to an emphatic start vs. Miami for a couple of reasons:
1. Obviously they knocked us out last year but more importantly,
2. I think he wants to knock off Miami in as few games as possible, which ultimately would give the starters more rest than playing them fewer minutes in games but having to play more games.
He's not taking Miami lightly and he shouldn't. They play physical, try to muck up games and we know in the playoffs refs allow more contact.
Even w/o Butler, they're tough competition.

jimnance said:

My guess is he wants to get off to an emphatic start vs. Miami for a couple of reasons:
1. Obviously they knocked us out last year but more importantly,
2. I think he wants to knock off Miami in as few games as possible, which ultimately would give the starters more rest than playing them fewer minutes in games but having to play more games.
He's not taking Miami lightly and he shouldn't. They play physical, try to muck up games and we know in the playoffs refs allow more contact.
Even w/o Butler, they're tough competition.

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But that's the real issue, isn't it? When you play a physical team like Miami, they are going to try and beat you up. Porzingas hasn't shown that he can handle that type of physical play this year. He sat out 25 games with injuries. I worry that the Heat could end up causing the Celtics to limp into round 2 if they're not careful. They were up by 16 points with less than a minute to go when Martin took out Tatum. Were they really that worried about the outcome of this game at that point?

I agree that the idea behind playing the starters a lot is......

1.) Set the playoff tone
2.) Kill the opponents' will
3.) Earn your rest with a sweep

bresna said:

Did Mazzulla say why he kept the starters in for 70-85% of this early game? Tatum played 41 minutes and looked out of gas by the end when he missed that open layup. Mazzulla is going to burn them out in the first round if he keeps this up. Playoffs can end up being a lot of games. If each round goes to 7 games, it's another 28 games. That's another third of a regular season.

Yes, every game is important, but they need 15 more wins. I don't think he should be playing the starters in game 1 of the opening round like it's game 7 of the finals.

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It felt like he played the starting five almost the entire third quarter and like you said Tatum 41 minutes in a blowout.

There were a bunch of defensive breakdowns in the fourth IMO and it wasn’t simple complacency. They were out of gas, primarily Tatum which led to sloppiness.

I did not like the decision by Mazzula. Chalk it up as another one in my mind.

Kdo5 said:

It felt like he played the starting five almost the entire third quarter and like you said Tatum 41 minutes in a blowout.

There were a bunch of defensive breakdowns in the fourth IMO and it wasn’t simple complacency. They were out of gas, primarily Tatum which led to sloppiness.

I did not like the decision by Mazzula. Chalk it up as another one in my mind.

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God knows I'm not a big Mazzula fan, but I didn't mind it. The starters hadn't had a win in two weeks, and played pretty sloppy down the stretch. I don't mind pushing them a little bit in game 1 and getting their game legs back under them

bresna said:

But that's the real issue, isn't it? When you play a physical team like Miami, they are going to try and beat you up. Porzingas hasn't shown that he can handle that type of physical play this year. He sat out 25 games with injuries. I worry that the Heat could end up causing the Celtics to limp into round 2 if they're not careful. They were up by 16 points with less than a minute to go when Martin took out Tatum. Were they really that worried about the outcome of this game at that point?

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It's the playoffs. Time to man up and play.

jimnance said:

It's the playoffs. Time to man up and play.

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It’s also at minimum 16 games, more like 20-25 to win it all. You can still overstretch guys.

If it’s definitely not necessary, don’t push it. It’s only one game though so we’ll just see how the rest of the series plays out. Just my opinion though.

jimnance said:

It's the playoffs. Time to man up and play.

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True - but up 30 against the 8th seed in the first round? Get the bench some playing time. If they start losing ground, then bring back the starters, The one I worry about the most is Porzingas. He missed 30% of the regular season (25/82 games) and he has not been the best at avoiding injury in his career. He goes down and we're looking at falling back onto a 37 year old 6' 9" center.

This is not good

Saddest part of this is how unsurprising it is

Celtics are soft as baby poop.

Can anybody tell me an advantage to having Holliday instead of Smart?

Said it once I’ll say it again. Front runners.
No Jimmy Buckets. No Scary Terry. No problem. No championship.

This series is going at least 6 games, maybe 7. It doesn’t matter the Heat are just in our heads.

Game specific:

Porzingis was horrible and so was Jrue. Hate to see the guys who are supposed to push you over the top play like that. If Jaylen had a game like either of them Ice would have an absolute field day.

Otherwise the perimeter defense was pathetic. A lot of those shots were open or with minimal contest. Lots of threes that our guys simply didn’t even put their hands up.

And Mazzula? Where was the defensive adjustments? This guy is not a good head coach and it shows quite clearly when he’s up against Spoelstra. I miss Ime and Brad.

After watching these guys choke the last few years i have no faith in them.

I was at the game and our guys were giving friendly waves or nothing at all when the Heat teed up their shots…all night long.

If Joe's A plan doesn't work he's useless. He is incapable of making the proper adjustments.