Patriots fans class action lawsuit against the NFL

Joker said:

hire some thug to dress up as a Jet fan and have him cap Crudell's knees...kill two birds with one stone.

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That didn't work for Tonya Harding

Kraft F'd Us said:

I'm an attorney in MA and huge Pats fan and was considering suing for our draft choices. Standing is a long shot but it's not frivolous and it is a commendable endeavor so let's try. Contact me.

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Is there enough time since the draft is a little over a month away?


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Kraft F'd Us said:

I'm an attorney in MA and huge Pats fan and was considering suing for our draft choices. Standing is a long shot but it's not frivolous and it is a commendable endeavor so let's try. Contact me.

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Buffalo fan trying to repay Pats fans for last years hoax or something of the sort.

Nice try though.

Kraft F'd Us said:

I'm an attorney in MA and huge Pats fan and was considering suing for our draft choices. Standing is a long shot but it's not frivolous and it is a commendable endeavor so let's try. Contact me.

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Seth, hit me up on Twitter (@jimderochea), FB Group "Defenders Of The Wall (Log into Facebook | Facebook) or [email protected] email. I would like to discuss "next step" legal related options with you.

Jim Derochea

Kraft F'd Us said:

I'm an attorney in MA and huge Pats fan and was considering suing for our draft choices. Standing is a long shot but it's not frivolous and it is a commendable endeavor so let's try. Contact me.

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I am assuming you are offering pro bono services to carry this out?

If you have read any law review on this type of case in sports law, then I expect PatsDeb's posts in the thread (who is also a huge Pats fan and attorney (from what she has written in the past, a good one)) should ring absolutely true. Black letter standing cases like Lujan make dismissal pretty much a lock in State or federal court for the non-season ticket holder. If you survive that, then you get a dismissal under failure to state a claim in seeking exceptional equitable relief under a contract to which you are not a party.

If you want your name up in lights like Carl Mayer, the attorney and Jets fan who sued the NFL after Spygate, whose case was summarily blown up at the trial and appellate levels, then have at it. As the Third Circuit wrote in its decision, "Significantly, our ruling also does not leave Mayer and other ticket-holders without any recourse. Instead, fans could speak out against the Patriots, their coach, and the NFL itself. In fact, they could even go so far as to refuse to purchase tickets or NFL-related merchandise. See, e.g.,
Bowers, 489 F.3d at 321 (noting possible effects of bad reputation on future prospects of sport); Seko, 22 F.3d at 774 (stating that, “instead of going to the Cubs game, the fan may head south for Comiskey Park and the White Sox”). However, the one thing they cannot do is bring a legal action in a court of law." It isn't the First Circuit or the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, but if you envision an answer any different from this then I would encourage you to look to the ALR or law reviews on the subject of these fan suits.

These are the types of cases attorneys bring as publicity to attract business from other fans drawn in by the 15 minutes of fame from their names appearing in newspaper articles (I am not claiming that is your motive, but it is the reality of prior cases of this ilk). If that is the case (or even if it is not), then go the Carl Mayer route and pay for the case yourself (you don't need others to join you). File it pro se today and regale the fans here with the tales of your court battle. They would love it.

I would make sure I was acquainted with local procedures on the award of attorney's fees (to the prevailing party?) if this case goes south, as the NFL attorneys are not inexpensive. That may add a little salt to the wound if you have to pay them 5 or 6 figures on top of your dissatisfaction with the decision.

jimderochea said:

Seth, hit me up on Twitter (@jimderochea), FB Group "Defenders Of The Wall (Log into Facebook | Facebook) or [email protected] email. I would like to discuss "next step" legal related options with you.

Jim Derochea

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I'm no attorney but it's long seemed to me that NFL fans can and should compel the owners to follow their own bylaws which state clearly on page 28, Article VIII, Employment, 8.1 "The League Shall select and employ a person of Unquestioned Integrity to serve as Commissioner of the League..."

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf

If any owner would like to assert that Goodell, whom two US District Court Judges have effectively called a liar, has "unquestioned integrity" I'd love to hear them justify it.

Conversely, if they assert that the NFL bylaws are simply optional guidelines, I'm sure the NFLPA and certain players accused of rule violations would love to know that as well

And if NFL rules ARE something that are optional, then there's no reason why the Patriots draft picks can't be returned.

But at the very least I'd just like to hold the owners feet to the fire and have them on record as to whether Goodell has unquestioned integrity.

As paying ticket holders, we have a right to a fair and even playing field, and when the Commissioner himself has been proven to be unfair, the game itself is unfair

jimderochea said:

Seth, hit me up on Twitter (@jimderochea), FB Group "Defenders Of The Wall (Log into Facebook | Facebook) or [email protected] email. I would like to discuss "next step" legal related options with you.

Jim Derochea

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Do you know this guy?

JoeSixPat said:

As paying ticket holders, we have a right to a fair and even playing field, and when the Commissioner himself has been proven to be unfair, the game itself is unfair

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It's not at all clear you have any such right. It's been a while since I've read the 3rd Circuit decision in the Cameragate lawsuit by the Jets fan that @MassPats38 mentioned earlier, but I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of "even if the NE shenanigans affected the game to the detriment of the Jets or other teams, too bad. Your ticket only purported to let you see an NFL game, which you indeed saw. No claim, go away."

QuantumMechanic said:

It's not at all clear you have any such right. It's been a while since I've read the 3rd Circuit decision in the Cameragate lawsuit by the Jets fan that @MassPats38 mentioned earlier, but I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of "even if the NE shenanigans affected the game to the detriment of the Jets or other teams, too bad. Your ticket only purported to let you see an NFL game, which you indeed saw. No claim, go away."

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I'm sure it wouldn't take a legal genius to draw some distinction between the violation of an obscure brand new rule, and the overall inherent corruption of the entire LEAGUE itself

Is there any public interest in ensuring that a $40 billion dollar businesses granted an anti-trust exemption not be little more than a ponzi scheme in which the game is purposefully fixed to allow certain owners to win and profit while attempting to hold others back?

Who knows. Maybe the courts past decisions DO protect a league's ability to actually attempt to fix the outcomes of games.

Again, I'm no lawyer but I see NO similarity between the simple violation of a brand new obscure rule and the actual corruption of a League itself.

But if unchallenged I can assure you the right of the league to attempt to fix the outcome of games will continue

Guys, the difference between Goodell and a football is that Goodell's ego doesn't naturally deflate in cold weather. He autonomously generates hot air regardless.

I'll leave it to the lawyers to parse the instruments that allow Goodell to rule by fiat as far as competitive balance goes. They have sham organizations like the "competition committee" that change rules (or just "emphasize" them) to make their favorite script work. They have sham charges to demonize teams that win too often.

The league freely leaks to the media when they claim they have an independent investigation, and the "independent" investigation is done on the league*'s dime and is subject to league* review.

I do wish you guys luck, but I agree - the picks are gone. Anybody who wants to find some way to increase media access knock yourselves out, but the draft media is primarily BSPN and the NFL*N, which are both heavily dependent on the NFL* for coverage.

Eh, show up en masse in Pats jerseys and turn around and walk out when the pick comes that should have been the Pats' #1 this year. You might get a blip on the news.

It doesn't seem that the route to recovery goes through the courts - the remedy would come too late, and you'd think the injunction to prevent the damage would already have been filed.

Although who knows. Maybe it's more effective the eve of the draft.

Feh. We'll see. My guess is, bye bye picks.

It'll make #5 that much more of an achievement... but it's a little tiresome beating the other team, the league*, AND the refs to nail down titles.

It's been an absolute pleasure thus far to watch TFB's career, and now we're way closer to its end than to its beginning. It's a shame that the league* has seen fit to pull him down at every turn, but he's done okay for himself.

When they do the wrap-up of American football, I hope when I am very old, I think these Goodell years shenanigans get a footnote. "Everybody knew he had his thumb on the scale but...."

But by then it will be about what happened on the way to the slow death of a collision sport that results in young people having their brains battered.

I'd hate to be a 25-year-old fan today, subject to the likelihood that football would disappear in my lifetime. (For me it will just be on a slow slide, is my guess.)

MassPats38 said:

I am assuming you are offering pro bono services to carry this out?

If you have read any law review on this type of case in sports law, then I expect PatsDeb's posts in the thread (who is also a huge Pats fan and attorney (from what she has written in the past, a good one)) should ring absolutely true. Black letter standing cases like Lujan make dismissal pretty much a lock in State or federal court for the non-season ticket holder. If you survive that, then you get a dismissal under failure to state a claim in seeking exceptional equitable relief under a contract to which you are not a party.

If you want your name up in lights like Carl Mayer, the attorney and Jets fan who sued the NFL after Spygate, whose case was summarily blown up at the trial and appellate levels, then have at it. As the Third Circuit wrote in its decision, "Significantly, our ruling also does not leave Mayer and other ticket-holders without any recourse. Instead, fans could speak out against the Patriots, their coach, and the NFL itself. In fact, they could even go so far as to refuse to purchase tickets or NFL-related merchandise. See, e.g.,
Bowers, 489 F.3d at 321 (noting possible effects of bad reputation on future prospects of sport); Seko, 22 F.3d at 774 (stating that, “instead of going to the Cubs game, the fan may head south for Comiskey Park and the White Sox”). However, the one thing they cannot do is bring a legal action in a court of law." It isn't the First Circuit or the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, but if you envision an answer any different from this then I would encourage you to look to the ALR or law reviews on the subject of these fan suits.

These are the types of cases attorneys bring as publicity to attract business from other fans drawn in by the 15 minutes of fame from their names appearing in newspaper articles (I am not claiming that is your motive, but it is the reality of prior cases of this ilk). If that is the case (or even if it is not), then go the Carl Mayer route and pay for the case yourself (you don't need others to join you). File it pro se today and regale the fans here with the tales of your court battle. They would love it.

I would make sure I was acquainted with local procedures on the award of attorney's fees (to the prevailing party?) if this case goes south, as the NFL attorneys are not inexpensive. That may add a little salt to the wound if you have to pay them 5 or 6 figures on top of your dissatisfaction with the decision.

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Just saw this. Thanks for the lecture and grandstanding. I'm going to categorize it as such since you didn't send it in a private message. Sounds like you would have been the guy on the porch telling Paul Revere on horseback to 'just go home and get some rest and things will take care of themselves.' Yes I have a computer and I am able to use google. I have a lot more research to do and standing is a major barrier but just like the original patriots and today's version, I'm not a quitter. Overly optimistic? Maybe. I don't want or need the publicity. If you or someone else would step up I'd be overjoyed. Someone needs to do something. The person best able is unwilling. So here we are. Why don't you help me find a way rather than give up?

KDPPatsfan85 said:

Is there enough time since the draft is a little over a month away?


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Yes I'm filing on an expedited basis. It's a simple decision to issue a TRO and injunction and take the puck away next year if actual evidence of wrongdoing is found.

Tony2046 said:

Buffalo fan trying to repay Pats fans for last years hoax or something of the sort.

Nice try though.

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Are you saying I'm a Buffalo fan? Good one Doubting Thomas.

jimderochea said:

Seth, hit me up on Twitter (@jimderochea), FB Group "Defenders Of The Wall (Log into Facebook | Facebook) or [email protected] email. I would like to discuss "next step" legal related options with you.

Jim Derochea

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I'll do it now.

Kraft F'd Us said:

I'm an attorney in MA and huge Pats fan and was considering suing for our draft choices. Standing is a long shot but it's not frivolous and it is a commendable endeavor so let's try. Contact me.

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So then why is your IP address screaming New Jersey?

IcyPatriot said:

So then why is your IP address screaming New Jersey?

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No idea.

QuantumMechanic said:

It's not at all clear you have any such right. It's been a while since I've read the 3rd Circuit decision in the Cameragate lawsuit by the Jets fan that @MassPats38 mentioned earlier, but I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of "even if the NE shenanigans affected the game to the detriment of the Jets or other teams, too bad. Your ticket only purported to let you see an NFL game, which you indeed saw. No claim, go away."

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Until the SCOTUS says so I don't care what some judge in NY says. The injustice system often favors the rich and powerful but sometimes the fact that every judge is his own nation state actually gives us a chance that he is one of the few moral and fair justices.

JoeSixPat said:

I'm no attorney but it's long seemed to me that NFL fans can and should compel the owners to follow their own bylaws which state clearly on page 28, Article VIII, Employment, 8.1 "The League Shall select and employ a person of Unquestioned Integrity to serve as Commissioner of the League..."

http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf

If any owner would like to assert that Goodell, whom two US District Court Judges have effectively called a liar, has "unquestioned integrity" I'd love to hear them justify it.

Conversely, if they assert that the NFL bylaws are simply optional guidelines, I'm sure the NFLPA and certain players accused of rule violations would love to know that as well

And if NFL rules ARE something that are optional, then there's no reason why the Patriots draft picks can't be returned.

But at the very least I'd just like to hold the owners feet to the fire and have them on record as to whether Goodell has unquestioned integrity.

As paying ticket holders, we have a right to a fair and even playing field, and when the Commissioner himself has been proven to be unfair, the game itself is unfair

Click to expand...

Joe great point! With your permission I'm going to use this in the lawsuit. This could be a key point in defeating standing hurdles. The league's own rules are arbitrary and caprious and maybe they get tossed.

Kraft F'd Us said:

Just saw this. Thanks for the lecture and grandstanding. I'm going to categorize it as such since you didn't send it in a private message. Sounds like you would have been the guy on the porch telling Paul Revere on horseback to 'just go home and get some rest and things will take care of themselves.' Yes I have a computer and I am able to use google. I have a lot more research to do and standing is a major barrier but just like the original patriots and today's version, I'm not a quitter. Overly optimistic? Maybe. I don't want or need the publicity. If you or someone else would step up I'd be overjoyed. Someone needs to do something. The person best able is unwilling. So here we are. Why don't you help me find a way rather than give up?

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I didn't PM you because you stated, purportedly as an attorney in MA, this solicitation publicly. You apparently don't like a public reply to a public statement you could have easily PM'd yourself to the poster who raised the question, so spare me the theatrics in your reply.

As pointed out, you look past/ignore the posts of numerous attorneys in this thread reciting actual law and say "let's do this". If you are an actual attorney, and I assume nothing, then I would make very sure I have a firm grasp on the applicable law before I recruit non-attorneys to my cause and potentially dig them into a very large financial hole after filing a lousy legal argument against a very wealthy organization.

And seriously, so the law is about not quitting - having a positive "can do" attitude? Wow. That is so inspiring. I always thought successful legal practice was about a firm grasp on substantive law and procedures. I must have missed the "battle cry" course in law school and in the courts. Always knew something was missing from my practice. It is Yoda-like in its import. It inspires me to reply in kind.

I'll tell you what. If you are a real lawyer, who did real work on this issue before making your public post calling other non-lawyers to join you, then PM me your thoughts on where to file this case and a list of case citations on the law applicable to that jurisdiction on point with this issue that show you did some actual homework on the question before your rallying cry, and I will give you a real opinion on the subject with real case law in reply. Also send me your MA bar number, and I will reciprocate. I'll get your office number off the public registry, and we attorneys can discuss the roadmap to solving this thorny legal issue.

And by the way, we attorneys don't often use Google to research the law. I'm not optimistic on your legal groundwork if that is the foundation of your research.

MassPats38 said:

I didn't PM you because you stated, purportedly as an attorney in MA, this solicitation publicly. You apparently don't like a public reply to a public statement you could have easily PM'd yourself to the poster who raised the question, so spare me the theatrics in your reply.

As pointed out, you look past/ignore the posts of numerous attorneys in this thread reciting actual law and say "let's do this". If you are an actual attorney, and I assume nothing, then I would make very sure I have a firm grasp on the applicable law before I recruit non-attorneys to my cause and potentially dig them into a very large financial hole after filing a lousy legal argument against a very wealthy organization.

And seriously, so the law is about not quitting - having a positive "can do" attitude? Wow. That is so inspiring. I always thought successful legal practice was about a firm grasp on substantive law and procedures. I must have missed the "battle cry" course in law school and in the courts. Always knew something was missing from my practice. It is Yoda-like in its import. It inspires me to reply in kind.

I'll tell you what. If you are a real lawyer, who did real work on this issue before making your public post calling other non-lawyers to join you, then PM me your thoughts on where to file this case and a list of case citations on the law applicable to that jurisdiction on point with this issue that show you did some actual homework on the question before your rallying cry, and I will give you a real opinion on the subject with real case law in reply. Also send me your MA bar number, and I will reciprocate. I'll get your office number off the public registry, and we attorneys can discuss the roadmap to solving this thorny legal issue.

And by the way, we attorneys don't often use Google to research the law. I'm not optimistic on your legal groundwork if that is the foundation of your research.

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One doesn't necessarily need to do in-depth research via westlaw or carmaker at the fact finding stage. I always start with Google to get a Longview. Anyway, it's not a great idea to debate this Ina public forum so again, I'll give you my cell and please text me at your convenience and let's try to fight bs the League rather than in fight amongst ourselves. And lastly, I would refer to what other 'attorneys' on a blog as a distant secondary authority and moreover, I'm not sure what judges you've been in front of but the ones that i deal with often focus and are guided by their own egos and world view then find whatever excuse if they feel like it, to justify their holding. I'll take my chances in a Massachusetts court of law with likely Patriot-supporting judges to win a TRO. 207-418-1462