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Offseason talk - would you trade Chandler Jones?


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Says who?


Teams aren't going to be giving Jones 80 million if he is as bad as his detractors here claim he is. You guys are making two arguments on the same issue that completely contradict each other, on the one hand you claim he's really not that good and the other that he's going to break the bank. And although DEs with good sack numbers tend to get big deals they don't go into the 80-90 million range people here think it will go unless it is a truly great player, such as Watt and Suh have been, although Suh dropped off this season after getting the big money. Right now Jones is another player in the 40-50 million range and the Patriots can get that deal done if they want to.
People are over critical, especially for Jones they do account for the times he is lined up as 3-4 DE responsible for 2-gaps and holding the blocker to open up the A-gap blitzes. Jones is an excellent player, as are Collins, Hightower, and Butler, the 3 of them would command $10M+ APY on the open market in my opinion.

If we could sign Jones to the same 5 year/$42.M contract Everson Griffin signed last year I think that would be a huge win for us.
 
Says who?


Teams aren't going to be giving Jones 80 million if he is as bad as his detractors here claim he is. You guys are making two arguments on the same issue that completely contradict each other, on the one hand you claim he's really not that good and the other that he's going to break the bank. And although DEs with good sack numbers tend to get big deals they don't go into the 80-90 million range people here think it will go unless it is a truly great player, such as Watt and Suh have been, although Suh dropped off this season after getting the big money. Right now Jones is another player in the 40-50 million range and the Patriots can get that deal done if they want to.

Just clarifying my opinion I think he's a great player, just not as good as the other 3. And I do not see how the four players could fit in our cap space.

The average salary of the top 10 DE is $9,98M. For ILB and OLB is less than $7.5M. 2.5m is the money to keep a guy like Branch ...
 
People are over critical, especially for Jones they do account for the times he is lined up as 3-4 DE responsible for 2-gaps and holding the blocker to open up the A-gap blitzes. Jones is an excellent player, as are Collins, Hightower, and Butler, the 3 of them would command $10M+ APY on the open market in my opinion.

If we could sign Jones to the same 5 year/$42.M contract Everson Griffin signed last year I think that would be a huge win for us.

5/42 would be nice...
 
Look not trying to diminish Jones play but double digit sacks and other numbers may be a bit misleading, he gets some stats in garbage time or easy games, I remember very few impact plays he made in important moments. As some have said, he disappears from games quite often. He is not a guy that you know is going to get to the QB and create some mess like Von Miller. BUT, I don't care about the stats, I care about his play and since we don't know the playbook and his assignments it's difficult to judge, BB may be very happy with him.

I agree with some that say trading him may create a hole and a problem that do not exist today but I think Flowers was drafted to replace him and with all the other players I don't see a huge drop off, but again, as I said, we don't know the assignments. The eye test tells me we could get his production replaced by other players. That said, I would consider a trade, but not for a draft pick (I think we could get a 2nd round tops) instead I would consider a trade for a above average veteran player, maybe a guard and a 5th round pick or something, maybe a package deal. The learning curve for rookies in New England is big so trading Jones for a pick not only is an uncertainty but it would pay off in the future and weaken the team right now when we have a good thing going.

There is the money thing, he will definitely be in for a nice pay check when he hits the FA, a contract that we are not going to match and he's due to 8 Mi in 2016 and that's a considerable amount of money. With another cuts we could be in good position to bring some experienced players in the Free Agency, I'm not saying a 15Mi a year player but who knows maybe 2 players in the 7Mi range would be nice. Also the depth this past season was not like the depth we had in Casillas and Ayers so I wouldn't mind have some guys a little bit better in the bench.

This will be the subject of the off-season IMO as there are several possibilities. Some people were talking about this trade last off-season but it's going to regain total force this year, especially after this drug incident he got involved, that was really bad and could drop his market value, I'm sure BB was not happy with that event in a AFCCG week.


Flowers have not bloomed yet ...

I miss Ayers $3M is not the much for him
 
Flowers have not bloomed yet ...

I miss Ayers $3M is not the much for him

Flowers had a red shirt year and that was clearly the plan, some guy here met his father and posted that they were OK with BB's approach.
 
So create a big hole for no reason and hope someone else can fill it.


Well, I guess the upside is then Patriot fans can start b.tching about the need to draft a pass rushing end for another 15 years.
 
Flowers had a red shirt year and that was clearly the plan, some guy here met his father and posted that they were OK with BB's approach.


A guy here met his father?

Well, that's good enough for me, no need for a pro bowl DE anymore.
 
Cardinals say they are focused on pass rushers.
Would anyone here do Floyd and a number 2 for Jones?
 
The bottom line for me is that I want the strongest team they can field next season and getting rid of really productive players for draft picks sets that goal back significantly. Last season's defensive line was the best they have had since they were 3-4 with Wilfork, Seymour, and Warren, and they have never been this deep that I can recall. Right now they are a really strong 8 deep line and that is not counting Hicks. Rather than deplete their DL they should get Hicks signed and focus on bolstering their LB corps and adding a quality veteran CB to give them the depth and quality they will need to win another championship.
 
A guy here met his father?

Well, that's good enough for me, no need for a pro bowl DE anymore.

Calm down, you're reading too much to make your point. I was just saying that some member of this forum (I don't remember who) met Flowers father and he confirmed that the red shirt year was by design, that's why Flowers didn't have any significant playing time. Of course Jones is the better player right now.
 
Calm down, you're reading too much to make your point. I was just saying that some member of this forum (I don't remember who) met Flowers father and he confirmed that the red shirt year was by design, that's why Flowers didn't have any significant playing time. Of course Jones is the better player right now.


And Flowers may turn out to be a good player but right now we don't know. I like him as a prospect but he's a long ways from being a pro bowl quality DE.

As far as Chandler Jones goes I will trust the Patriots decision on him whatever that may be. I think it is almost impossible for fans to evaluate the play of any of their DL because we don't really know what is being asked of them. If anything I think their responsibilities and making sure they fulfill them causes many to think less of them, e.g.. Rob Ninkovich being called the worst starter in football and Devin McCourty "mediocre." And that's a tiny sample. I think the knock on Jones for falling off later in seasons looks past his snap count and injuries, which imo won't be as big an issue for Jones or Ninkovich going forward because their DL is so deep.
 
They can keep Collins until 2019 simply by tagging him once.

How can that happen? Collins is now on the last year of his 4 yr deal.
 
It seems unlikely we will be able to keep Jones, Hightower, and Collins. Especially with Butler, Ryan, Sheard, and others entering UFA in the next couple of years.

I think Easley could play RDE and not get as beat up as being an undersized DT. I also think Hightower could play DE effectively in passing situations.

I like Jones but he seems like the one we could most easily replace, it might make sense to recoup some value while we can.

Thoughts?

01 ~ I probably wouldn't, but I'd definitely consider it for the right Price.
02 ~ I like Jones, but I don't consider'm elite.
03 ~ His best Years may be ahead'f'm, mind you.
04 ~ I do expect that he's going to get an enormous Contract, though.
05 ~ And that's why I'm open to the Idea of trading'm.
06 ~ Paying Elite Contacts for, say, Good Performance can be disastrous.
07 ~ The Salary Cap is expanding, so the Trade might not be necessary.
08 ~ But I've always got an eye open for a Great Trade.

When I run my OffSeason Mock, it's going to include a complete 7 Round Draft ~ including the 1st and 4th Rounders, thank you very much!! Say what you will, but I wouldn't've caved like Kraft did, and I believe that I would've ultimately forced Goodell's Hand and compelled'm to cough'm up!!

As such, there would've been not ******** limitations on what we could acquire in Trades.

As such...

I'd be willing to consider a Trade for, say, consecutive 2016 & 2017 1st Rounders and a 2016 3rd and 7th Rounder and maybe an old Binky or two...but probably only if I felt that I could sustain or preferably improve our Depth of Talent while I did so, through the Draft, Development, and Free Agency.

*I'd also like to note that this was not only a perfectly reasonable Subject to bring up, but a very interesting one, and it disgusts me when people who I otherwise respect ~ and a few who I otherwise do not!! :D ~ disgrace themselves by insulting everyone with a new or interesting Idea. :rolleyes:
 
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I think it's in our better interests to keep Jones this season and pay him the 8m dollars for one last year, but I can see why it will be a huge debate.

After all, we have to try and retain all 3 this season and that's not bringing up the situation of Butler. It's obviously going to be very difficult to keep them all, if not impossible.
 
Cardinals say they are focused on pass rushers.
Would anyone here do Floyd and a number 2 for Jones?

Not liking the 8m cap hit on Floyd's last year. Is he eligible to a fifth year or did that come too late for him. Even then I'd prefer John Brown and his measly 2016: $612,00, 2017: $702,000 deals.

I think Floyd has regressed, whereas Brown is blossoming into a nice deep threat. I think he is like Steve Smith
 
I think it's in our better interests to keep Jones this season and pay him the 8m dollars for one last year, but I can see why it will be a huge debate.

After all, we have to try and retain all 3 this season and that's not bringing up the situation of Butler. It's obviously going to be very difficult to keep them all, if not impossible.

Didn't Reiss do I nice piece on his blog regarding resigning Butler and its really has no urgency as people believe. Just of to get it.

EDIT: Its repeated in this next piece, basically what this thread is about actually haha

Strategic planning must start now for Patriots with 'Big Four' on defense
 
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The bottom line for me is that I want the strongest team they can field next season and getting rid of really productive players for draft picks sets that goal back significantly. Last season's defensive line was the best they have had since they were 3-4 with Wilfork, Seymour, and Warren, and they have never been this deep that I can recall. Right now they are a really strong 8 deep line and that is not counting Hicks. Rather than deplete their DL they should get Hicks signed and focus on bolstering their LB corps and adding a quality veteran CB to give them the depth and quality they will need to win another championship.

I consider Jones to be somewhat overrated. He disappears for stretches and puts up big numbers in chunks. On the field he looks to me like a secondary playmaker, a clean up guy.

That said, I agree completely that I want to see the best possible 53 in 2016. Next year will be the best chance this team has to win #5 in the foreseeable future. The only way to move Jones and improve this team in 2016 is if he brings a big, big return. I'd move him for Joe Thomas. I wouldn't move him for a draft pick.

Plus, long term, I really like what Sheard brings to the table. I am comfortable sitting on Jones, fielding an elite D, and taking the change of losing him in FA.
 
How can that happen? Collins is now on the last year of his 4 yr deal.

My mistake completely, I have been treating him like Jones and Hightower, 5 year deal with option, and you're right he's a 4 year guy with no option. And that obviously changes the dynamic in turns of getting deals done but given the flexibility they have I still think they can get it all done without to much trouble. The Patriots can take the approach where they get Hightower and Collins done and leave Jones until after the season and either re-sign him or let him walk for the third. I would much rather have him contribute all season and take a 3rd than lose him for a 2nd.
 
I consider Jones to be somewhat overrated. He disappears for stretches and puts up big numbers in chunks. On the field he looks to me like a secondary playmaker, a clean up guy.

That said, I agree completely that I want to see the best possible 53 in 2016. Next year will be the best chance this team has to win #5 in the foreseeable future. The only way to move Jones and improve this team in 2016 is if he brings a big, big return. I'd move him for Joe Thomas. I wouldn't move him for a draft pick.

Plus, long term, I really like what Sheard brings to the table. I am comfortable sitting on Jones, fielding an elite D, and taking the change of losing him in FA.

Its always tough to analyze line play because we don't know what's being asked of them, and a lot of the criticism of him is similar to that of Mayo, where people disregarded his production and claimed he was just a clean up guy, which I never agreed with. What I do know with n Jones is that he has been productive, he's been willing to play both inside and out and has done so without complaint, and that he has a great deal of experience in this defense and has been one of the core players in their group of young defensive players, and I place a lot on that dynamic of shared experiences these guys have had, especially in big games, and I want to keep that core together and believe it will pay off for them.
 
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