Robert Kraft talks to Peter King

Ring 6 · May 18, 2015

Mack Herron said:
Ahh...apologies. It didn't honestly occur to me but point taken.

Thats cool, I actually read it like it was from a press release, and went looking for it. Duh.

Mack Herron · May 18, 2015

VJCPatriot said:
Roger Goodell is committing career suicide as we speak. Goodell just crossed the guy who put him into power. This act of plain disloyalty will cost Goodell his job in the long run. And in the short term it looks like Brady and Kraft are going to do everything in their power to fight these draconian punishments.

The key words I hear from Kraft was that he felt that the investigation was "unfair" and there was no "smoking gun." Everything was based on "circumstantial evidence" and used against the Patriots. Bob Kraft is sharpening his machete as we speak. I think he will feel out his options at the owners' meetings before executing his final plan. And that plan does not involve covering up for Goodell's bumbling anymore.

Kraft has backed off his initial take to bend over and take whatever was coming, but I'm sure the "all for one and one for all" sentiment remains. He has refused to say whether or not he would go to court, but I suspect he will do everything in his power to avoid that route. He is in a very narrow place here.

zydecochris · May 18, 2015

reflexblue said:
I knew that air would condense when the tempature dropped, but i had never heard of the Ideal gas law. For the last couple of weeks i have wondered why its called the 'ideal' gas law. I'm just to lazy to look it up, besides by now the reason for the name has been buried by deflate gate.

Well, let's see if I can put you to sleep in 30 seconds:

Everything in physics is some type of approximation, nothing is ever 100% exactly exact (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle), so the question is: "does the Ideal Gas Law provide an accurate prediction / close approximation for the behavior of actual gases in this case (involving football deflation)?

The ideal gas law comes from the kinetic theory of gases. Assuming that a large amount of molecules are involved and the container volume is large compared to the molecular volume (definitely true for a football), the primary assumption for the "Ideal Gas" is that no forces act between the molecules except during elastic collisions of negligible duration, which is not, in fact, exactly true for any actual gas.

Nevertheless, the behavior of actual gases is described quite closely by the Ideal Gas Law as long as we aren't talking about ultra low temperatures (on the Kelvin scale), super high pressures, or a gas near its condensation point (all of those assumptions are valid for this case), so that the large distances between molecules and their high speeds overcome any interaction force between the molecules.

Upshot: The Ideal Gas Law provides a very close, excellent approximation of the behavior of actual gases in a football as the temperature of the football (and the enclosed gas) is reduced.

I haven't seen any real scientist dispute this. Palm Beach Pats Fan (a Ph.D. Chemist) wrote an excellent discussion of this in the "DeflateGate Forum", and I (a physics prof) completely agree with his analysis.

Fast asleep, right? Works better than sleeping pills.

Rob0729 · May 18, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
That is a very disappointing take. Personally I think Goodell has no choice but to do the right thing, not no choice but to do the wrong thing because he thinks it will be best for him to be dishonest.

When did Zolak say Brady did something? Link?

Did you listen to Bertrand and Zolak the last two weeks? They have conceded Brady did something, but it is no big deal. Betrand is more of the guy killing the Pats recently though.

And Goodell has never had doing the right thing as the right thing. In fact, Goodell's history has shown that when choosing between the right thing and the wrong thing, he has consistently chosen the wrong thing and let it blow up in his face.

Cunk · May 18, 2015

I agree with AndyJohnson.

Marks of a true leader is the ability to be fair, take input from others and admit when one is wrong. Goodell will piss off the masses if he says he took the Patriot's rebuttal into consideration and is now overturning the punishment given by Vincent due to the new information not provided in the Wells report. But I think this would present fairness, due diligence and good leadership to the owners. I think it would actually strengthen his position if he did this. And perhaps he may also present a new way of doing these investigations. Such as allowing teams to have a rebuttal before coming to a conclusion. He's coming up on a contract renewal right? I think in 2017? It's really the owners he has to impress, not the average fan right?

Yes, people would be shouting "He's in Kraft's pocket!!!" But he already showed he was willing to fine them greatly (and did with Spygate before) so I think the backlash wouldn't be quite so harsh as if he discredited the Wells report from the get-go. I think the best way of making all this circus go away while making himself look the best is to rescind the punishments and offer a new method of investigations in the future.

After reading what I just wrote I know it may seem silly or pie-in-the-sky and that I live on another planet. But I do think this kind of action benefits himself the most in the long run. And I think that's all he cares about-his power. If takes this first step to start to write the ship the listing NFL has become I think it would serve as a positive for him.

Perhaps I'm being naive about what the owners would think if he reversed his decision. Perhaps they'd act the opposite of what I just wrote. But I think the Pat's position is so strong that he'll ultimately look even more like a fool if they have to drag this through the courts and he would be weakened.

Perhaps that's why he didn't back down from making himself the arbitrator? What if Brady sits down in front of him with a full head of steam and Goodell says "you know Tom, you've been great for the league and you've always been a stand-up guy. I took the rebuttal into consideration, done some investigating myself and have come to the conclusion that you have done nothing to tarnish your legacy. All punishments are gone." Then everyone can move on with no threats of lawsuits and this whole thing can be put behind us.

What would happen then? What would be the backlash to Goodell?

Rob0729 · May 18, 2015

Cunk said:
I agree with AndyJohnson.

Marks of a true leader is the ability to be fair, take input from others and admit when one is wrong. Goodell will piss off the masses if he says he took the Patriot's rebuttal into consideration and is now overturning the punishment given by Vincent due to the new information not provided in the Wells report. But I think this would present fairness, due diligence and good leadership to the owners. I think it would actually strengthen his position if he did this. And perhaps he may also present a new way of doing these investigations. Such as allowing teams to have a rebuttal before coming to a conclusion. He's coming up on a contract renewal right? I think in 2017? It's really the owners he has to impress, not the average fan right?

Yes, people would be shouting "He's in Kraft's pocket!!!" But he already showed he was willing to fine them greatly (and did with Spygate before) so I think the backlash wouldn't be quite so harsh as if he discredited the Wells report from the get-go. I think the best way of making all this circus go away while making himself look the best is to rescind the punishments and offer a new method of investigations in the future.

After reading what I just wrote I know it may seem silly or pie-in-the-sky and that I live on another planet. But I do think this kind of action benefits himself the most in the long run. And I think that's all he cares about-his power. If takes this first step to start to write the ship the listing NFL has become I think it would serve as a positive for him.

Perhaps I'm being naive about what the owners would think if he reversed his decision. Perhaps they'd act the opposite of what I just wrote. But I think the Pat's position is so strong that he'll ultimately look even more like a fool if they have to drag this through the courts and he would be weakened.

Perhaps that's why he didn't back down from making himself the arbitrator? What if Brady sits down in front of him with a full head of steam and Goodell says "you know Tom, you've been great for the league and you've always been a stand-up guy. I took the rebuttal into consideration, done some investigating myself and have come to the conclusion that you have done nothing to tarnish your legacy. All punishments are gone." Then everyone can move on with no threats of lawsuits and this whole thing can be put behind us.

What would happen then? What would be the backlash to Goodell?

The problem with your argument is that you assume Goodell is a true or good leader. Goodell has a long history of licking his finger, sticking it in the air, and making decisions based on which way the wind is blowing. Goodell is the antithesis of a good leader.

Since Goodell has taken over this league, everything has been reactionary. Just look at the Patriots' formation thing in the playoffs. People biatched, and the League changed the rules because people were upset because the Pats' cheated by not cheating.

You can point to plenty of cases where Goodell has acted where a good leader would do the opposite.

Sfpat · May 18, 2015

Cunk said:
I agree with AndyJohnson.

Marks of a true leader is the ability to be fair, take input from others and admit when one is wrong. Goodell will piss off the masses if he says he took the Patriot's rebuttal into consideration and is now overturning the punishment given by Vincent due to the new information not provided in the Wells report. But I think this would present fairness, due diligence and good leadership to the owners. I think it would actually strengthen his position if he did this. And perhaps he may also present a new way of doing these investigations. Such as allowing teams to have a rebuttal before coming to a conclusion. He's coming up on a contract renewal right? I think in 2017? It's really the owners he has to impress, not the average fan right?

Yes, people would be shouting "He's in Kraft's pocket!!!" But he already showed he was willing to fine them greatly (and did with Spygate before) so I think the backlash wouldn't be quite so harsh as if he discredited the Wells report from the get-go. I think the best way of making all this circus go away while making himself look the best is to rescind the punishments and offer a new method of investigations in the future.

After reading what I just wrote I know it may seem silly or pie-in-the-sky and that I live on another planet. But I do think this kind of action benefits himself the most in the long run. And I think that's all he cares about-his power. If takes this first step to start to write the ship the listing NFL has become I think it would serve as a positive for him.

Perhaps I'm being naive about what the owners would think if he reversed his decision. Perhaps they'd act the opposite of what I just wrote. But I think the Pat's position is so strong that he'll ultimately look even more like a fool if they have to drag this through the courts and he would be weakened.

Perhaps that's why he didn't back down from making himself the arbitrator? What if Brady sits down in front of him with a full head of steam and Goodell says "you know Tom, you've been great for the league and you've always been a stand-up guy. I took the rebuttal into consideration, done some investigating myself and have come to the conclusion that you have done nothing to tarnish your legacy. All punishments are gone." Then everyone can move on with no threats of lawsuits and this whole thing can be put behind us.

What would happen then? What would be the backlash to Goodell?

It's true the best recourse for Goodell is to end this farce immediately by exonerating the Pats and Brady. Then he stands a chance of surviving. The longer this goes, the worse the outcome is for Goodell.

reflexblue · May 18, 2015

zydecochris said:
Well, let's see if I can put you to sleep in 30 seconds:

Everything in physics is some type of approximation, nothing is ever 100% exactly exact (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle), so the question is: "does the Ideal Gas Law provide an accurate prediction / close approximation for the behavior of actual gases in this case (involving football deflation)?

The ideal gas law comes from the kinetic theory of gases. Assuming that a large amount of molecules are involved and the container volume is large compared to the molecular volume (definitely true for a football), the primary assumption for the "Ideal Gas" is that no forces act between the molecules except during elastic collisions of negligible duration, which is not, in fact, exactly true for any actual gas.

Nevertheless, the behavior of actual gases is described quite closely by the Ideal Gas Law as long as we aren't talking about ultra low temperatures (on the Kelvin scale), super high pressures, or a gas near its condensation point (all of those assumptions are valid for this case), so that the large distances between molecules and their high speeds overcome any interaction force between the molecules.

Upshot: The Ideal Gas Law provides a very close, excellent approximation of the behavior of actual gases in a football as the temperature of the football (and the enclosed gas) is reduced.

I haven't seen any real scientist dispute this. Palm Beach Pats Fan (a Ph.D. Chemist) wrote an excellent discussion of this in the "DeflateGate Forum", and I (a physics prof) completely agree with his analysis.

Fast asleep, right? Works better than sleeping pills.

Thank you, but i just want to know how the ideal gas law got its name?
We think we know a lot of ideal things which are subject, so how did the Ideal Gas Law get its name. Was it an Ideal formula, or was the person who came up with the formulas name 'Ideal'

or was it ideal because it worked with all gases? Or is it ideal because its easy to use and remember. So many questions, so little time.

Anteros · May 18, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
There is no compromise short of total exoneration that Brady will accept.
Kraft should not either but might just to keep the peace.

With apologies to whoever said this (Rev King?)
"There can be no peace without justice."

See it through to the end, Bob.

Haley · May 18, 2015

reflexblue said:
Thank you, but i just want to know how the ideal gas law got its name?
We think we know a lot of ideal things which are subject, so how did the Ideal Gas Law get its name. Was it an Ideal formula, or was the person who came up with the formulas name 'Ideal' or was it ideal because it worked with all gases? Or is it ideal because its easy to use and remember. So many questions, so little time.

I'm guessing but I would assume it's because the gas has an ideal pressure it achieves as a result of temperature.

FalconHeavy · May 18, 2015

I don't know what Bertrand, Adam Jones et al have against pats. They are the biggest anti-pats voice in our back yard. Its pissing me off to no end

reflexblue · May 18, 2015

Haley said:
I'm guessing but I would assume it's because the gas has an ideal pressure it achieves as a result of temperature.

You guys made me look it up. work and slave Work and slave. If gases were 'ideal' they would behave in a certain way. They would be ideal because they're reaction to out side forces would be absolutely predictable is the way ive interpreted what ive read.

i·de·al gas
noun
CHEMISTRY

a hypothetical gas whose molecules occupy negligible space and have no interactions, and that consequently obeys the gas laws exactly.

rochrist · May 18, 2015

Jackson 2 said:
Agreed, but the thing is that I believe there is only one owner and franchise Goodell would treat this way.

He basically did it to the Saints.

Jackson 2 · May 18, 2015

rochrist said:
He basically did it to the Saints.

OK, two.

Froob · May 18, 2015

Mack Herron said:
Ahh...apologies. It didn't honestly occur to me but point taken.

One year suspension! No...make that two for the cover up! You had to be "generally aware."

Froob · May 18, 2015

rochrist said:
He basically did it to the Saints.

Meanwhile, the ratbirds...

Ravens Terrell Suggs said that the Baltimore Ravens had a "bounty" on Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward and running back Rashard Mendenhall. During the "2 Live Stews" syndicated radio show on Oct. 17, 2008, when he was asked, "Did you all put a bounty out on that young man [Mendenhall]," Suggs replied, "Definitely. The bounty was out on him and the bounty was out on [Ward] -- we just didn't get him between the whistles."

During the interview, Suggs called Ward "a dirty player" and "a cheap-shot artist, saying "we got something in store for him." Ward, who appeared on "PTI" a few days later, said the bounty talk was "a big honor." Continued Ward, "I am really not going to comment, but all I have to say to Mr. Suggs is there's a policy in the NFL [against bounties] he should read."

Saints and their fans should be more pissed about that. Goody always there to cover up for the ratbirds.

Ring 6 · May 18, 2015

Rob0729 said:
Did you listen to Bertrand and Zolak the last two weeks? They have conceded Brady did something, but it is no big deal. Betrand is more of the guy killing the Pats recently though.

I don't live in Boston, so I don't listen to Boston sports radio, but I would think if Zolak said he thinks Brady is lying it would have been published somewhere.

And Goodell has never had doing the right thing as the right thing. In fact, Goodell's history has shown that when choosing between the right thing and the wrong thing, he has consistently chosen the wrong thing and let it blow up in his face.

But you are saying the best thing for him to do right now is the wrong thing.
I'm not busting you, I'm really trying to see your point of view. I think right now I'm confused as to whether what you are suggesting is what you would do in Goodells place, or your prediction of what he would do. I'm unclear on which you mean, which is why I am asking for you to clarify.

I think that what is in Goodell's best interest is to do the right thing.
I have no clue what is going on his mind though, and wouldn't begin to guess.
I think that the fallout from going to court will be 1000x greater than just doing the right thing now.

rochrist · May 18, 2015

Rob0729 said:
In response to this argument, douchebag Breer tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/600287265764593665

I've heard this argument a lot and my response is "Who gives a f**k?!?".

Yes, Kraft and the Patriots and much of their fans were naive enough to think Wells would do an unbiased investigation and didn't come into this with a predetermined point of view that the Pats were guilty and working backwards from that assumption. Doesn't change the fact that, as Kraft pointed out, Wells' report was completely biased and slanted to make the Pats look guilty when there was no evidence.

Hell, I will take it one step further. Let's say Kraft knew that Wells was going to come in as a prosecutor. Doesn't that bolster the Pats' claim of innocence? If Kraft and the rest of the Patriots knew that Wells was not going to stop until he was going to find something on the Pats, wouldn't the Pats only sign off on Wells if they thought they had nothing to hide?

Where has it been established that the Pats had the option of 'signing off' on Wells anyway?

Ring 6 · May 18, 2015

Anteros said:
With apologies to whoever said this (Rev King?)
"There can be no peace without justice."

See it through to the end, Bob.

Brady exonerated, picks returned and a small fine may be good enough for Kraft to take the deal, although I feel like he has reached the point where any penalty is unacceptable because he claims to be 100% innocent.

Froob · May 18, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Brady exonerated, picks returned and a small fine may be good enough for Kraft to take the deal, although I feel like he has reached the point where any penalty is unacceptable because he claims to be 100% innocent.

He should fight toothe and nail for even the smallest of fines. One cent is too much.

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