Pass Interference / Non PI in Dallas - Detroit playoff game

SalemPats said:

The referreeing in that game was brutal, one of the worst i have seen.

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i agree with you - one of the worst in the recent time in the play-offs but after SEA - PIT Super Bowl that wins without a doubt

Spiral said:

Anyone else think this play was similar to the non-call against the Panthers last year?

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I don't actually. Kuechly bear hugged Gronk and forced him back several yards. The only resemblance is picking up the flag.

Last time face-guarding was called was in 2005 against Asante Samuel in the Denver playoff game. That call was worse than this one.

Clearly DPI. Zolak's term was "egregious error". Other things he said:

"They screwed it up royally"
"It's an insult to the fans"
"Jobs are on the line" (referring to players and coaches)
"It's an easy call. They screwed it up royally."
"They need to fix what they erred on yesterday. That's bad for the league for that to happen."




FYI, Torrey Smith has drawn 11 DPIs on 93 targets this year.*





I'd ask who the poster was who clowned himself by clicking "disagree", but his name comes up under the list function. Not surprisingly, I might add...

Spiral said:

Last time face-guarding was called was in 2005 against Asante Samuel in the Denver playoff game. That call was worse than this one.

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2006 against Hobbs in the AFCCG against the Colts. The call wasn't even in the league anymore, but it was still made.

Deus Irae said:

2006 against Hobbs in the AFCCG against the Colts. The call wasn't even in the league anymore, but it was still made.

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I remember being incredulous after hearing that call. And I still hear some fans call for "face guarding" when watching games. I just have to shake my head.

dales804 said:

I remember being incredulous after hearing that call. And I still hear some fans call for "face guarding" when watching games. I just have to shake my head.

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So many things went wrong in that game, where if one of them had just gone right, that's probably a Patriots win. Braday/BB are about 3 plays away from being 5-0 in Super Bowls with a game against the Bears for 6-0. The "What could have been" is never going to go away.

Deus Irae said:

So many things went wrong in that game, where if one of them had just gone right, that's probably a Patriots win. Braday/BB are about 3 plays away from being 5-0 in Super Bowls with a game against the Bears for 6-0. The "What could have been" is never going to go away.

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And yet, so much of that "what if" could be dropped, at least temporarily, by some good football and good health from NE over the next month.

Bobs My Uncle said:

I don't get the "all star" process when it comes to selecting individual officials for playoff games. Like most "all star" assemblies that we see in sports games, they don't work well, especially in short order.

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This.


That was the problem. You had a crew that wasn't comfortable/used to working with each other, and had a delay in the conversation to pick up the flag. If the penalty wasn't announced and the ball spot, if they had simply conferred and announced "there was no penalty for DPI", most of this "controversy" wouldn't have occurred. I agree with Andy, I think this was an excellent "no-call" (I like the no-call rather than the dual OPI/DPI - i think there was contact both ways, and neither gained a real advantage from it), but the flawed system of official selection made it a mess.

I want them to get it right. In the context of this game and this play, I think no flag WAS right. They blew it in taking too long to confer.


Pick the best CREWS to work these games.

Deus Irae said:

2006 against Hobbs in the AFCCG against the Colts. The call wasn't even in the league anymore, but it was still made.

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http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/dal...nterference-well-which-one-is-it-we-dont-know

Head Ref Peter Morelli: "“The back judge flew his flag for pass interference. We got other information from another official from a different angle that thought the contact was minimal and didn’t warrant pass interference. He thought it was face-guarding.”

Any reference to FG makes my blood boil about that AFCCG travesty

PatsWickedPissah said:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/dal...nterference-well-which-one-is-it-we-dont-know

Head Ref Peter Morelli: "“The back judge flew his flag for pass interference. We got other information from another official from a different angle that thought the contact was minimal and didn’t warrant pass interference. He thought it was face-guarding.”

Any reference to FG makes my blood boil about that AFCCG travesty

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And the fact that Hobbs got a letter from the NFL apologizing for the bad call during the summer of 2007.

SalemPats said:

I'm not a fan of replay for PI, it will slow the game down and will cause more chaos/discussion than we need

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If each coach is still limited to two challenges in total, it shouldn't slow things down more at all, EXCEPT for added official-requested reviews in the last 2 minutes. It is important enough to get right, so yes I'd be OK with adding a minute or two to the game. Challenges would be rare in my opinion, because the clear and convincing evidence standard for overturning the call on the field would still apply.

While it is true the call could have gone either way, or not been called at all, it was. Where it starts to make one wonder about refs influencing the outcome of the game is when bryant comes out, almost to mid-field, without his helmet. Every ref on the field saw him and there can be no disputing that that is a 15 yarder. It just looks to me like the team that won is who the refs wanted to win.

It gets even worse, for both the officials and the defenders of the play. While trying to defend the DPI, Blandino admits that the holding call that proceded it was a definite blown call:

Blandino, appearing on PFT Live, told Mike Florio that Cowboys linebacker Anthony Hitchens did get away with a penalty on the Lions’ fourth-quarter pass to Brandon Pettigrew. But Blandino said the missed call that troubled him most was not the pass interference flag that was originally thrown but later picked up.

According to Blandino, the clear penalty Hitchens got away with was defensive holding: Hitchens grabbed Pettigrew’s jersey while Pettigrew was running his route, and Blandino said that should have been called. If it had been, it would have given the Lions an automatic first down.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ndino-acknowledges-cowboys-got-away-with-one/

He also admits, tacitly, that the Cowboys got away with the Dez Bryant non-call on the same play:

Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant ran onto the field to argue the pass interference call, and Blandino said Bryant could have been flagged for that. Blandino said running on the field to argue with an official is “not an automatic penalty,” but he added that “I certainly would have supported a call for unsportsmanlike conduct.”

Ultimately, Blandino admits, if all of the elements of that play had been called correctly, the Lions would have had a first down.

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So, even while trying to pretend the DPI isn't a textbook example of what they've been calling all season and claiming it to be a 50/50 call (which still means it could have been called and there's no excuse for picking up the flag as a "faceguard"), Blandino admits that the cowboys got away with 2 other penalties on the same play.

I look forward to reading the upcoming disclaimers in the multiple threads where this is a topic.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

If each coach is still limited to two challenges in total, it shouldn't slow things down more at all, EXCEPT for added official-requested reviews in the last 2 minutes. It is important enough to get right, so yes I'd be OK with adding a minute or two to the game. Challenges would be rare in my opinion, because the clear and convincing evidence standard for overturning the call on the field would still apply.

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The reason why i don't like it is because a lot of these are judgement calls that can be really close. A player puts a hand on a guy, but it has no effect on the play and then we have these ticky-tacky reversals. I could see it leading to a lot more problems.

SalemPats said:

The picked up flag wasa travesty. The referreeing in that game was brutal, one of the worst i have seen.

I'm not a fan of replay for PI, it will slow the game down and will cause more chaos/discussion than we need

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How will it slow the game down? The Belichickean proposals don't call for more challenges, only that every play is challengeable. So a coach could still only challenge two plays (or three if he got the first two right).

SalemPats said:

The reason why i don't like it is because a lot of these are judgement calls that can be really close. A player puts a hand on a guy, but it has no effect on the play and then we have these ticky-tacky reversals. I could see it leading to a lot more problems.

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Why would the reversal be ticky-tack if the tape showed that the contact had no impact on the play?

The Brandon Five said:

Why would the reversal be ticky-tack if the tape showed that the contact had no impact on the play?

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What if a guy slightly has his hand on a guy's back and the ref calls a PI. The coach challenges the call and techincally it's a PI, but it really has no affect on the play and should be reversed, what do you do. It's tough to make judgement calls reversable

SalemPats said:

The reason why i don't like it is because a lot of these are judgement calls that can be really close. A player puts a hand on a guy, but it has no effect on the play and then we have these ticky-tacky reversals. I could see it leading to a lot more problems.

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This play itself is an example.
You can really make a reasonable argument either way.
The argument that the defender did not gain an advantage is valid. He is allowed to stand in the way of the ball.
The argument that he was theorectically impeding the receiver from coming back to the ball even though the receiver never tried to is also valid.
Professional referees have studied the tape of the play for 24 hours and disagree.
Where there are human there is human error. Its crazy to pretend you can eliminate human error. A call like this shows that, and if you try to, then you just leave it to a judgment call made on slow motion instead of real action, which I'm not sure is better, and in this case, if it went to replay, half the people would still be saying it was wrong.
A large amount of reviewed plays already have people arguing the replay ref was wrong.
The other side of human nature: Fans will complain about unfairness when their team loses.

I'm just glad the Patriots weren't involved in this play. I can't imagine the uproar if it was Hightower in coverage and Gronkowski came on the field to argue the call. Football message boards everywhere would crash.

For the record, with the way they have been calling penalties in the passing game this year, I think that was definitely a defensive penalty. If not PI, then illegal contact or defensive holding. All the elements were there; pulled the receiver's jersey, made contact after 5 yards, never looked for the ball. I could see not calling it at all in the "It's the playoffs, let 'em play" vein, but throwing a flag and then picking it up was unusual.