Run D has been a problem

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 58m58 minutes ago
Memo to future Patriots' opponent: run behind anyone blocking Jamie Collins in the run game. He's roadkill.


CJ had big problems the other night being run at. Didn't set the edge well enough i thought. I don't watch after film but it looks like Bedard has and that running at jamie collins is a good thing right now for opposing teams.

Our biggest problems originate from the trenches on both sides of the ball. Being stout against the run has been a problem off and on since Seymour left, and has been a consistent problem this year (25th in the league in rush yards allowed), aggravated by the losses of Spikes, Kelly and, more recently, Siliga. In my view, our front 7 personnel does not compare favorably with teams like the Chiefs, as we just saw, or even in our own division with the Jets or Dolphins for that matter. While I join many others in calling for a more aggressive scheme, if Jones, Jones, Easley, Wilfork, Vellano, Mayo, Collins and Hightower cannot hold ground and shed blocks, then we will continue to struggle against the run. To the extent that we have physical talent limitations, I question just how effective our personnel up front can be.

During camp, I got criticism for saying that I was concerned about the interior line. And that was before Tommy Kelly left. In particular, I felt Wilfork looked heavy and I was unsure what we'd get from him. But other experienced posters were telling me he was lean and explosive-- so I left it alone. Well, on camera, he still looks heavy to me, and know I think I've got some evidence for an I Told You So moment. Some of the big runs in the KC game were right at him.

rookBoston said:

During camp, I got criticism for saying that I was concerned about the interior line. And that was before Tommy Kelly left. In particular, I felt Wilfork looked heavy and I was unsure what we'd get from him. But other experienced posters were telling me he was lean and explosive-- so I left it alone. Well, on camera, he still looks heavy to me, and know I think I've got some evidence for an I Told You So moment. Some of the big runs in the KC game were right at him.

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It was reported that Wilfork actually lost weight as he recovered from his injury. But weight is secondary to effectiveness. Are you talking about this play?

Collins having trouble against the run has been no surprise to people that pay attention. He's phenomenal (for a LB) in coverage, but struggles shedding blocks and taking on the run. Denver ran right at him a lot in the AFCCG last year. But he wasn't the guy primarily at fault for the inability of our defense to defend those sweeps. When I was actually trying to inject the game day thread with analysis, I noted early on that the Chiefs saw something they like with the sweep. What they liked was (1) the speed (or lack thereof) of our LB corps in general and (2) Chandler losing contain. As a whole, the run defense is going to be a problem, maybe even after Siliga comes back. On Sunday night, I want to see us play bump and run on the outside, line Ryan up at S, and then load the box as much as possible to stop Bernard. You had better believe the Bengals will be coming with that sweep.

I think our issues against the run stem from two issues.

1) Mayo and Collins are doing terrible at shedding blocks and tackling.
2) We're undersized on the line for running situations.

In the offseason I really advocated that one of our biggest defensive needs was a bigger DE (270-285 pounds) such as Lamarr Houston, Robert Ayers or Kony Ealy. We're just a bit light at DE and DT. Ninkovich and Chandler are both 260-270. Easley and Chris Jones are 290, Easley might even be 280.

I think the quick fix is to play three true DTs on obvious running downs and make our LB's lives easier. This is what the Jets, 49ers, Cardinals and many other good teams against the run do. It's a bonus if that 3rd DT can also rush the passer, which I don't think we currently have.

Or maybe we just wait for Siliga to get healthy and him plus Wilfork are enough beef.

KontradictioN said:

Collins having trouble against the run has been no surprise to people that pay attention. He's phenomenal (for a LB) in coverage, but struggles shedding blocks and taking on the run.

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Is he really? Julius Thomas lit him up in the AFCCG, and T Kelce run wild Monday night.

Collins is miscast as an ILB in the 3-4. He really should be an OLB in the 4-3. His weakness is the run though.

I think Jones' problems were the same that he was in week one. He was playing the wrong position again. He just is not a DE in the 3-4. When he is going heads up with Fisher (who is a very good LT and beats a lot of good defenders), he has trouble setting the edge. When is lined up outside, he doesn't have this problem.

I really wished that with Siliga down, they would go back to 4-3. Without him at NT, they weaken several positions because Wilfork has to kick inside (he is a much better DE in the 3-4 than NT these days) and Jones switches to DE.

patsderoer said:

Is he really? Julius Thomas lit him up in the AFCCG, and T Kelce run wild Monday night.

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Kelce burnt Mayo a lot. And they found Kelce in soft parts of the zone which may or may not have been Collins' fault. I didn't watch closely enough to Collins himself and I didn't watch the ALL 22. In a zone, Collins isn't necessarily matched up with Kelce.

But Kelce shreaded Denver's defense too. He is a good player.

Brady_to_Moss said:

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 58m58 minutes ago
Memo to future Patriots' opponent: run behind anyone blocking Jamie Collins in the run game. He's roadkill.


CJ had big problems the other night being run at. Didn't set the edge well enough i thought. I don't watch after film but it looks like Bedard has and that running at jamie collins is a good thing right now for opposing teams.

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3 man front chewed up in Miami...4 man front chewed up in KC......I'm guess the Big V Wall D is coming. Vince laying down sideways and forcing a hurdling ground game

patsderoer said:

Is he really? Julius Thomas lit him up in the AFCCG, and T Kelce run wild Monday night.

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No he's not. He's a guy that tests well athletically, but doesn't translate that to the field. He's a timid, slow player between the whistles. He is Gary Guyton 2.0, but we wasted a 2nd round pick on him.

I re-watched this game this morning and I noticed one thing I missed that night. Later in the game they went into a four down linemen look at times and KC really didn't do much on the ground when they did. I think this is fixable especially if Siliga gets back in.

Geezer Butler said:

I re-watched this game this morning and I noticed one thing I missed that night. Later in the game they went into a four down linemen look at times and KC really didn't do much on the ground when they did. I think this is fixable especially if Siliga gets back in.

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This is why it falls on the coaches. You can't force a square leg in a round hole. You can't. So while you want to stay with a certain philosophy, you have to put the players in a chance to succeed. Same on offense. They have to out players in position to succeed. And as its been reported, a lot of these things are correctable. But it relies on the players wanting to get better and the coaches doing a better job.

Geezer Butler said:

I re-watched this game this morning and I noticed one thing I missed that night. Later in the game they went into a four down linemen look at times and KC really didn't do much on the ground when they did. I think this is fixable especially if Siliga gets back in.

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That is the thing. The Pats are better suited for a four man front right now. I am surprised they went into as a 3-4.

Geezer Butler said:

I re-watched this game this morning and I noticed one thing I missed that night. Later in the game they went into a four down linemen look at times and KC really didn't do much on the ground when they did. I think this is fixable especially if Siliga gets back in.

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Later in the game it was garbage time, KC was killing the clock, the D knew what was coming. Of course they looked good then. The problem was what they did before the game was out of reach.

iapatsfan said:

No he's not. He's a guy that tests well athletically, but doesn't translate that to the field. He's a timid, slow player between the whistles. He is Gary Guyton 2.0, but we wasted a 2nd round pick on him.

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The old athletes vs football players. Collins looks like a very good athlete, but not good football player. Past drafts are full with these types of athletes who never became good football players.

Rob0729 said:

That is the thing. The Pats are better suited for a four man front right now. I am surprised they went into as a 3-4.

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yeah, The look they came out in is a real head scratcher to me, some early plays they only had two down linemen! The rest was 3-4 and they were over pursuing and missing tackles left and right. Why against Alex Smith at QB and Charles in the backfield would you opt to defend the pass? Especially after they showed they were going to pound the ball pretty early on. Really strange.

Piss poor game, real bummer.

patsderoer said:

Is he really? Julius Thomas lit him up in the AFCCG, and T Kelce run wild Monday night.

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None of this is fact btw.

Kelce was miscovered by Mayo and a slot corner a few times.

Thomas had safety coverage and McCourty couldnt handle him.

SeanBruschi54 said:

None of this is fact btw.

Kelce was miscovered by Mayo and a slot corner a few times.

Thomas had safety coverage and McCourty couldnt handle him.

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Mayo's coverage of the Charles receiving TD was "factually" pathetic.

SeanBruschi54 said:

None of this is fact btw.

Kelce was miscovered by Mayo and a slot corner a few times.

Thomas had safety coverage and McCourty couldnt handle him.

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Of course it is fact. I still remember when the Pats needed a stop in the AFCCG and Collins was lit up by Julius Thomas for a 30 yard gain.

As for the KC game, the point is, if Collins is so phenomenal in coverage, why didn't they trust him to cover Kelce? Because he is not that phenomenal. He had a good game once and he was anointed. Since then he's been invisible, can't shed tackles, can't stop the run, can't cover Kelce.