Which player are you most excited about?

patriot1136 · Jun 28, 2014

Easley. That kid should be badass

patfanken · Jun 28, 2014

OK. OK, lets cool our jets and remember the OP. I think we can ALL agree that there is plenty to be all excited about from almost every aspect of the roster. HOWEVER, the assignment was to pick the PLAYER (singular) who has you the most excited thinking about this off season.

So as much as it is a real temptation to start with one player and then list another 5 right off the top of your head, we should get this back on track. So to that end, my player is my number sake Jamie Collins. I know that there are can be cases made for a dozen guys, I picked Collins for this simple reason. There are 2 things we can be fairly certain about Collins this season. One, he going to get a lot of snaps on ALL 3 downs. And 2, no one has any idea right now, where he is going to line up. when the ball is snapped. THAT's why I think he's could be the most exciting player to watch this season.

Think about it. Is he going to be an edge rusher coming in from the weak side, or will he be playing Sam and covering the TE in coverage. OR will he get spit wide to put a beating on a WR in coverage or blitzing up the middle as the Mike. It could be one or another or ALL of them. Anything we might posit now would be pure speculation.

We have all spent a TON of time discussing what we expect/hope to see from Collins this season, but the more I read and think about it the LESS I have any idea about where the Pats plan to play him. To my mind THAT's what makes me so excited about prospect of watching him play. I KNOW he's going to be out there a lot, I just don't know WHERE the F he's going to be playing.

ripatsfan91 · Jun 29, 2014

patfanken said:
We have all spent a TON of time discussing what we expect/hope to see from Collins this season, but the more I read and think about it the LESS I have any idea about where the Pats plan to play him. To my mind THAT's what makes me so excited about prospect of watching him play. I KNOW he's going to be out there a lot, I just don't know WHERE the F he's going to be playing.

I feel the same way my initial thought was that Collins would be the Will with Hightower at the Sam and Mayo as the Mike. But with all reports saying that Collins has really added some size I am starting to think he will be playing Sam with Hightower as the Mike and Mayo as the Will.

Hopefully that size doesn't hurt his speed/agility. Does BB not like small linebackers? It seems we don't have have any of the small fast guys at LB ala Danny Trevathan/Lavonte David

Triumph · Jun 29, 2014

Devin Mcourty island

Marqui · Jun 29, 2014

ripatsfan91 said:
Hopefully that size doesn't hurt his speed/agility. Does BB not like small linebackers? It seems we don't have have any of the small fast guys at LB ala Danny Trevathan/Lavonte David

Uh, James Anderson.

Brady6 · Jun 29, 2014

ripatsfan91 said:
Hopefully that size doesn't hurt his speed/agility. Does BB not like small linebackers? It seems we don't have have any of the small fast guys at LB ala Danny Trevathan/Lavonte David

Jerod Mayo is very fast, he runs a 40 faster than David does in fact. Jamie Collins is a physical specimen; he combines the athletic ability of a David with the size of a DE.

ripatsfan91 · Jun 29, 2014

Brady6 said:
Jerod Mayo is very fast, he runs a 40 faster than David does in fact. Jamie Collins is a physical specimen; he combines the athletic ability of a David with the size of a DE.

Both Hightower and Mayo have below average lateral movement.. look at their 3 cone times. They don't look as fluid as other players.

Good call on Anderson, Marqui but I meant for a starter/not part time player who isn't guranteed playing time. A lot of people have been questioning BB's philosophy I think Bruschi brought up the idea last year why would Hightower be playing LB at 270 when he would probably be better and more effective playing at 255-260

ctpatsfan77 · Jun 29, 2014

Ryan Allen, obviously.

Brady6 · Jun 29, 2014

ripatsfan91 said:
Both Hightower and Mayo have below average lateral movement.. look at their 3 cone times. They don't look as fluid as other players.

Good call on Anderson, Marqui but I meant for a starter/not part time player who isn't guranteed playing time. A lot of people have been questioning BB's philosophy I think Bruschi brought up the idea last year why would Hightower be playing LB at 270 when he would probably be better and more effective playing at 255-260

In my opinion, the 5-10-5 (20-yard shuttle) is a better indication of lateral movement than the 3-cone drill.

Patriots LBs
Jerod Mayo – 4.29
Donta Hightower – 4.64
Jamie Collins – 4.32

Notable LBs
Patrick Willis – 4.46
Luke Kuechly – 4.12
Lavonte David – 4.22
Navorro Bowman – 4.59
Von Miller – 4.06

Mayo and Collins fall in line with the others; Hightower is not nearly the player laterally as he is vertically.

mayoclinic · Jun 29, 2014

Brady6 said:
Hightower is not nearly the player laterally as he is vertically.

That is almost certainly the case. Mike Reiss recently discussed Hightower's possible role in a chat session:

Joseph (Baltimore): Opinions on Hightower seem to be across the board from he is a draft bust to he will be a pro bowler. Do you think Hightower takes another step forward building off a solid final few games last year or is he destined for the two back role Spikes held down and will be gone at the end of his rookie contract?

Mike: Joseph, I don't know why anyone would call him a bust. That's crazy to me. He was put in a tough spot last year and did the best he could with it. Here is my underlying thought on Hightower: He doesn't fit in the standard box from a position standpoint so a coaching staff has to be creative to get the best out of him. It was tough to do that last year because of the injuries around him, but I think this year has a chance to be different. Like him coming off the edge a bit more and playing forward.

Hightower (Boston): Mike: he's a bust because he is a first round draft pick that will be a two down at best lb in a passing league...He's 270 pounds and can not cover... At all.... Doesn't add a pass rush... What does he do? Collins will be a better player and he's an end of the 2nd round player.... I don't get what the love for this guy is.

Mike: Has he been given a chance to pass rush? I haven't seen much of it, if at all, and I've watched every play from the 2013 season multiple times. My feeling is there is more to Hightower's game that we haven't seen that can still come out. Play him on the edge at times. Multiple defense. Physical player. I want a guy like that on my team.

Chat with Mike Reiss | ESPN

Hightower has always been an enigma to me, from the day when he was picked. He's obviously a very solid player, but I just never understood the fit. Hightower has nice burst and explosiveness (his 1.58 10 yard split is comparable to that of Ryan Shazier, Von Miller and Jadeveon Clowney) but horrible lateral mobility (his 7.55 3-cone and 4.64 short shuttle wore worse than those of many offensive linemen). He's just not a guy who is well equipped to play in space.

I think Reiss' chat pretty much nailed the big question with Hightower going into this year. He clearly "doesn't fit in the standard box from a position standpoint", and he has limitations in space. At worst, he's a "two down at best LB in a passing league." At best, he's a physical player with versatility in a multiple defense who can be used creatively, and hopefully result in "more to Hightower's game that we haven't seen" coming out. We haven't seen much of that in 2 years, for a number of reasons (learning curve, injuries, etc.). Hopefully we'll see more of that this year. In general, I think Hightower will be much more effective "playing forward", to use Reiss' term, or "vertically", to use yours. Maybe using him as a 2-down MLB and then as a pass rusher in sub situations is the best way to go. It will be interesting to see how creative the team can get with him, with all the other talent on defense.

Deus Irae · Jun 29, 2014

mayoclinic said:
In general, I think Hightower will be much more effective "playing forward", to use Reiss' term, or "vertically", to use yours. Maybe using him as a 2-down MLB and then as a pass rusher in sub situations is the best way to go. It will be interesting to see how creative the team can get with him, with all the other talent on defense.

It seems to me that Hightower is basically another Spikes, with more speed, but less lateral quickness and lacking some of Spikes' intangibles. That should make him a strong candidate for the MLB spot on 1st and 2nd downs, but it will likely also mean a downgrade at the position in some significant ways. Reiss may insist that he's not a bust, but he's pretty clearly been a disappointment to this point.

As for just letting him loose, I'm not sure how often he's going to get that chance on passing downs. Mayo's a 3 down player, and Anderson and Collins are both looked at as good cover guys with suspect abilities against the run. If Wilfork and Kelly are healthy, and Buchanan steps it up in year w, the DT rotations and DE snaps should be mostly accounted for.

mayoclinic · Jun 29, 2014

Deus Irae said:
It seems to me that Hightower is basically another Spikes, with more speed, but less lateral quickness and lacking some of Spikes' intangibles. That should make him a strong candidate for the MLB spot on 1st and 2nd downs, but it will likely also mean a downgrade at the position in some significant ways. Reiss may insist that he's not a bust, but he's pretty clearly been a disappointment to this point.

As for just letting him loose, I'm not sure how often he's going to get that chance on passing downs. Mayo's a 3 down player, and Anderson and Collins are both looked at as good cover guys with suspect abilities against the run. If Wilfork and Kelly are healthy, and Buchanan steps it up in year w, the DT rotations and DE snaps should be mostly accounted for.

We'll just have to see how things work out. Competition is good. If Hightower can find a 3rd down pass rushing role with Collins, Will Smith and Buchanan all in the mix, then more power to him. But, IMO, while it is a no-brainer that the team will pick up Chandler Jones' 2016 5th-year option (if he isn't extended before then), it's far from clear that Hightower will merit that kind of money (over $7M for 1st round LBs this year), or a second contract. This year should tell.

Deus Irae · Jun 29, 2014

mayoclinic said:
We'll just have to see how things work out. Competition is good. If Hightower can find a 3rd down pass rushing role with Collins, Will Smith and Buchanan all in the mix, then more power to him. But, IMO, while it is a no-brainer that the team will pick up Chandler Jones' 2016 5th-year option (if he isn't extended before then), it's far from clear that Hightower will merit that kind of money (over $7M for 1st round LBs this year), or a second contract. This year should tell.

I think the bolded part is really significant, and I agree. This is the year where all the "he's learning" type justifications aren't going to hold up. It's fish or cut bait time. If this defense is going to become what a lot of us think it has the potential for, guys like Hightower need to show they've got what it takes.

SmellsLikeGrundle · Jun 29, 2014

Offense

1) Brady. So much has been written about him this past year. I can't wait to see how he responds to all of it. There's been plenty of talk about the weapons we have, or lack of weapons. Imo while we certainly could have better, theres def not a lack of weapons at all. People like to talk about a #1 wr, but this offense is designed around quick decision making and multiple/versatile players. We have many of those. Vereen, Edelman, Amendola, Gronk, White, Boyce are just some of the guys we have that can perform and excell in different areas/spaces on the field. One has to think 12 has been listening to all this talk and is more then fired up to bring back a 4th to N.E.

2) The O-line. Like most of our team last year this group dealt with injuries that obviously did not help their performence on the field. An already solid unit, top 10 in my book. Looks to have gotten better and deeper after the draft. Theres not many more important groups in the NFL than one protecting Tom Brady. If they can improve and return to what were used to, in terms of performence than this offense will be that much more dangerous. Losing coach Scar, an all time great hurts. But one has to think BB has been preparing for this.

3) Dobson. I get the idea some thought he was going to be more physical coming out of college. While he may never be a "physical" wr, I def believe he win somemore contested balls. An area that he must improve upon. He has to get better at 50/50 balls. He had a tough rookie year. The first half he had that "deer caught in the headlights" look. He didn't understand what was in front of him and didn't know how to adjust to it. The second have he looked better in those areas, but was hurt late in the season. Along with getting and staying healthy, we need him to use his body better, time the ball better/high point it better and produce more running routes to which his size should be an advantage. Like the "Go" and "Fade". Whether he improves in those areas or not will depend mostly on playing playing and chemistry with 12. Basically, he needs to get healthy and stay healthy. I should note that last year our offense as a whole looked ugly during most games. Timing was off, guys being injured etc just made for a messy O. So it wasn't like it was all his fault.

4) Vereen. This guy is matchup nightmare everytime he steps onto the field. Kind of a problem when he can't step onto the field because of injuries. When healthy he's a true game changing player. Esp on that wheel route. Although he and Brady didn't connect as much as we would like. I think a lot of that was the cast he was wearing. Because from everything else I saw the play was there to be made. The NFL is changing so much. You have TE's that look and play like wr's. You have RB's that play and look like slot wr's. The transformation of positions is ever-changing. We're fortunate to have a few of those guys on our team. Vereen has serious potential to be a legit playmaker and a 60 -70 catch guy imo. Like most of the team, only healthy can stop him.

5) Gronk! What else needs to be said. When healthy ( man I know I'm not the only Pats fan that is sick of saying "when healthy" ) he's an elite player. Right up there the best of them. Calvin Johnson, Shady, D. Thomas etc, Gronk is right there with the top tier athletes in the NFL. He changes they way defenses have to play us and makes our offenses one of the most dangerous in the game. Not counting QB's, you can't name more than 5-6 better offensive players than our Gronk. I have a feeling, that like Brady, he's tired of all the talk about him ( although he does create a lot of it ) and wants to put the doubters to rest that he can play a full 16 and po's. I must admit that I'm very skeptical that he can do just that. I know football players have to play football in order to produce, but he's a special case. He seemed fine coming back into the fold after half the season was gone last year. I wouldn't mind holding him out until it's absolutely a must that he returns. This team is built to win now.

I"ll do my top 5 defensive guys later.

strngplyr · Jun 29, 2014

Deus Irae said:
I think the bolded part is really significant, and I agree. This is the year where all the "he's learning" type justifications aren't going to hold up. It's fish or cut bait time. If this defense is going to become what a lot of us think it has the potential for, guys like Hightower need to show they've got what it takes.

Completely agree with you and Mayoclinic, I think that, barring a breakout season from Hightower, his replacement is drafted in the 2015 draft and he's allowed to walk after the season. He's done absolutely nothing on the field so far to make him worth picking up the option on.

Barring the league adopting the running game as a prominent thing again next season, which I don't think BB sees happening based on his ultra-athletic draft choices recently, Hightower's replacement will look more like a 240-255lb guy instead of a 265-270lb guy.

None of this is to say he isn't a good player, but he's not a good ENOUGH player to pick up the hefty option for.

PatsBoy12 · Jun 29, 2014

This question is so difficult to answer, though! I feel that there are so many story lines to follow going into this season that make different players intriguing and that makes them exciting. Does Brady decline, or does he prove the critics wrong? Does Jamie Collins live up to what he flashed in the playoffs, especially against the Colts? Do any of the WR's - Dobson, Thompkins, Amendola, Boyce - take a step or two forward? Does Gronkowski play a full season? Is Harmon a gamble going into the season, or does he live up to the flashes we saw last season? How does Wilfork look coming back from what some describe as an almost career ending injury? And, oh yea, we have R-E-V-I-S! Can he regain 'Jets' Revis form? Can he have the same impact on the defense as Talib did?

I just can't pick one.

Brady6 · Jun 29, 2014

mayoclinic said:
That is almost certainly the case. Mike Reiss recently discussed Hightower's possible role in a chat session:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/50820/patriots-with-mike-reiss

Hightower has always been an enigma to me, from the day when he was picked. He's obviously a very solid player, but I just never understood the fit. Hightower has nice burst and explosiveness (his 1.58 10 yard split is comparable to that of Ryan Shazier, Von Miller and Jadeveon Clowney) but horrible lateral mobility (his 7.55 3-cone and 4.64 short shuttle wore worse than those of many offensive linemen). He's just not a guy who is well equipped to play in space.

I think Reiss' chat pretty much nailed the big question with Hightower going into this year. He clearly "doesn't fit in the standard box from a position standpoint", and he has limitations in space. At worst, he's a "two down at best LB in a passing league." At best, he's a physical player with versatility in a multiple defense who can be used creatively, and hopefully result in "more to Hightower's game that we haven't seen" coming out. We haven't seen much of that in 2 years, for a number of reasons (learning curve, injuries, etc.). Hopefully we'll see more of that this year. In general, I think Hightower will be much more effective "playing forward", to use Reiss' term, or "vertically", to use yours. Maybe using him as a 2-down MLB and then as a pass rusher in sub situations is the best way to go. It will be interesting to see how creative the team can get with him, with all the other talent on defense.

I think Hightower fits best as a Sam LB in a 4-3 or a SOLB in a 3-4. That is just my opinion, but his size and athletic ability seems best suited for that role. He is capable of playing the Mike LB and even the Will LB in a 4-3 or the SILB and WILB in a 3-4, but those positions will not allow him to reach his full potential.

Brady6 · Jun 29, 2014

Deus Irae said:
It seems to me that Hightower is basically another Spikes, with more speed, but less lateral quickness and lacking some of Spikes' intangibles. That should make him a strong candidate for the MLB spot on 1st and 2nd downs, but it will likely also mean a downgrade at the position in some significant ways. Reiss may insist that he's not a bust, but he's pretty clearly been a disappointment to this point.

As for just letting him loose, I'm not sure how often he's going to get that chance on passing downs. Mayo's a 3 down player, and Anderson and Collins are both looked at as good cover guys with suspect abilities against the run. If Wilfork and Kelly are healthy, and Buchanan steps it up in year w, the DT rotations and DE snaps should be mostly accounted for.

If you combined Spikes lateral movement with Hightower’s vertical movement, you would actually have an effective MLB. The problem is Spikes only moved well laterally (6.97 3-cone, no 20-yard shuttle) and was very slow vertically (5.05 40-yard dash), whereas Hightower was the complete opposite. He has good vertical speed (4.62 40-yard dash) and horrendous lateral movement (7.55 3-cone, 4.64 20-yard shuttle).

Maybe if you assigned Hightower a gap as they did with Spikes and just had him run downhill to the line of scrimmage, he could be effective but as I said in a prior post, he needs to be near the line of scrimmage as either a 4-3 SAM or a 3-4 SOLB in my opinion.

I do agree this season is going to be very indicative of the direction Hightower’s career goes. That said I think we would give Hightower the 1-year contract Spikes got from the Bills because he is not a character problem.

mayoclinic · Jun 29, 2014

Brady6 said:
I think Hightower fits best as a Sam LB in a 4-3 or a SOLB in a 3-4. That is just my opinion, but his size and athletic ability seems best suited for that role. He is capable of playing the Mike LB and even the Will LB in a 4-3 or the SILB and WILB in a 3-4, but those positions will not allow him to reach his full potential.

I think that Collins is a better fit as a 4-3 SAM than Hightower. SAMs have to be able to cover TEs and RBs, and while I think Hightower is ok dropping into a zone, he doesn't have the quickness or agility to match up well with those kind of guys.

mayoclinic · Jun 29, 2014

strngplyr said:
None of this is to say he isn't a good player, but he's not a good ENOUGH player to pick up the hefty option for.

That's a great summary of Hightower through 2 years. A good player, but not good enough to warrant the #25 overall pick, not good enough to warrant a 5th year option, and not good enough to warrant a big second contract. As Deus says, this is "fish or cut bait time".

Which player are you most excited about?

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