Brandon LaFell as the “Flex” tight end

AndyJohnson said:

You are entirely missing the point.
The natural mismatch created by Hernandez was that he was a TE that teams couldn't decide whether to treat as a TE or a WR.
Some teams used 2 TE personell and it gave Hernandez an advantage as a receiver.
Some used 3 WR personell so we had a large enough personell grouping to run well on them (esp with Gronk as the in line TE, a dominating blocker)

When LaFell is on the field, all 31 teams will treat him as a WR.
He is a WR.

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It is really more about positioning than it is anything else, a team could shadow him with a CB but otherwise if he is inside next to the slot WR or right off the Y-TE he is likely to get picked up by a LB or SAF.

Big-T said:

Remember when people were clamoring for a tall outside receiving threat? Why all of a sudden the desire to make every tall receiver a TE?

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It is a way to have Dobson and LaFell on the field at the same time.

I agree it is plausible to play LaFell as a flex TE. I highly doubt it though.

I think you could've made a great thread if you took the time to find some video footage of what makes you BELIEVE so strongly in Lafell at TE, because even though he was heralded by his coaches as a great blocking WR, with gameday knowledge of other player's positions... but he has never been moved there, for even singlular snaps from what I've watched and been able to find.

The Panthers do have Greg Olsen, who is a wonderful TE... so it makes sense in a sense.

We'll see.

AndyJohnson said:

You are entirely missing the point.
The natural mismatch created by Hernandez was that he was a TE that teams couldn't decide whether to treat as a TE or a WR.
Some teams used 2 TE personell and it gave Hernandez an advantage as a receiver.
Some used 3 WR personell so we had a large enough personell grouping to run well on them (esp with Gronk as the in line TE, a dominating blocker)

When LaFell is on the field, all 31 teams will treat him as a WR.
He is a WR.

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Couldn't be said better..

Hernandez really doesn't have a comparison. Not only was he quick but he had great strength as we'll. Harrison is the only thing close and that's just on numbers, but production and talent it's not close. Keller is too slow and LaFell is MUCH smaller than Aaron.

Really feel like Harrison is the only hope

pctronics0072 said:

Wide receivers are not inherently feared/unfeared. They become that way. Do you think Randy Moss was being accounted for from the first game? No, he had to establish himself. When Welker came to NE, was he a feared slot receiver?

In that sense, our receivers need to establish themselves. There is absolutely no reason why A. Dobson or B. LaFell cannot be feared receivers, but they have to earn it.

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Dobson could be feared as part of a tandem. Sanders would have been a lethal addition to pair with Dobson. Lafell would be better served bulking up some and playing move TE like Hernandez. He is a strong blocker but very mediocre wr. Being covered by safety's and Lbs would benefit him.

So what is Harrison's status?

Brady6 said:

It is a way to have Dobson and LaFell on the field at the same time.

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Could easily be done by running a 11 formation with Dobson, Edelman and LaFell as the receivers.

patriot1136 said:

So what is Harrison's status?

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Harrison has to be the most talked about UDFA in the history of this team. I will be surprised if he makes the team led alone contribute personally. He is an impressive talent on paper but his college play was not nearly as impressive.

Gymrat said:

Dobson could be feared as part of a tandem. Sanders would have been a lethal addition to pair with Dobson. Lafell would be better served bulking up some and playing move TE like Hernandez. He is a strong blocker but very mediocre wr. Being covered by safety's and Lbs would benefit him.

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As in Emmanuel Sanders?

These are some of our formations, the way the personnel would breakout would be –

- X – Aaron Dobson
- Z – Julian Edelman
- A – Brandon LaFell
- Y – Rob Gronkowski

Yep

A couple of comments on the comments

1. I've been suggesting that LaFell might take some of Hernandez's routes for a while now. I just didn't think it deserved its own thread, since it was just speculative.

2. I think B6's point is being misinterpreted. This is NOT about LaFell becoming a TE, or having a typical TE skill set (whatever that is these days) This is about hypothesizing whether LaFell could duplicate SOME of what Hernandez gave the offense by being aligned like he was and running similar routes.

3. Clearly the era of the dominance of 2TE formations is over. But when Hernandez aligned in slot/motion formations and attacked the middle of the D, he was hard to handle, especially when Welker was running companion routes on the other side.

4. LaFell has SOME of the qualities that made the formation so effective in the past. He has good size, he has good speed. While I think Hernandez was more nimble (quicker feet), the difference might not be that apparent once we get to see him up close. Reportedly LaFell is an excellent run blocker.....as a WR. Its a legit question to wonder if he could block like a "Typical TE".

I don't think its as big an issue as some would make it. IIRC, Hernandez was mostly used to run block against players on the 2nd level (LB's and DB's). Clearly asking LaFell to block a DE would be dumb....and pretty useless. IF LaFell proves to be effective blocking LB's it would make this scenario more likely to happen. Don't forget that 260+lb LB's are becoming rarer in this era. The trend in LB's is to look for speed, so most are now in the 235-250 range. So at around 220 He wouldn't be at that much of a disadvantage.

5. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that one of the key elements of the success we had with the 2 "TE formation" was that it created 2 basic mismatches. You could pass against run D's and run when teams were in a nickel. I'm not sure you'd have that same kind of match up with a "TE-lite" guy running it. I guess it would depend on the kind of blocker he turns out to be. I mean it wasn't like Hernandez was anything more than adequate himself.

6. I forget now, but when did Emmanuel Sanders suddenly become an all world, difference making WR. Enough already. Historically he's been a solid WR with pretty average production, despite playing with a top QB, in a passing offense. He could have been a nice addition, if the Steelers hadn't matched, but his addition wouldn't have change much. Besides, Sanders has played his enitre career in a system that allowed him to freelance a lot (mostly due to Rothlessberger's ability to escape). Who knows how successful he would have been if he had to play in a very precise system that puts a premium on being in a precise location at the right time.

7. I don't know much about Harrison, so we'll have to wait until TC to see him in action. But regardless, just like with LaFell, its not about making Harrison a TE, but rather giving him the routes and alignments that Hernandez ran.

As someone wisely mentioned, we shouldn't get too focused on position labels. Its not about who is or is not a TE. We could go back in time and wonder it Hernandez himself was truly a TE or just a big WR like Graham is in NO, and Amaro is likely to be in NJ.

Brady6 said:

These are some of our formations, the way the personnel would breakout would be –

- X – Aaron Dobson
- Z – Julian Edelman
- A – Brandon LaFell
- Y – Rob Gronkowski

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Lafell and Gronk in double the sets. Because I think KT or Boyce wins some snaps this year. Boyce can threaten deep from the slot. While KT could win some snaps. He made some tough catches last yr. Has good separation quickness and a year more experienced in our offense could be dangerous. He was highly recruited by every school in the sec and pac-12 coming out of Jr. College. He never played with a division1 caliber qb at cinci and had 1000 yrds in Jr. College with a qb with a 20 yrd max throw. He has been clocked at sub 4.4 in some workouts. He was the guy Brady looked at in tough 3rd and longs. He is Antonio Browns cousin and Brown says kt has more raw talent than himself.. From what I see he is like a poor mans Marquise Lee/Odell Beckham. Not saying he will breakout. But with some refinement he could become a decent #2. With him and Dobson on the outside,Boyce from the slot occasionally, Gronk /Lafell in 2te sets and Vereen from the backfield, just maybe we can get some speed and athleticism on the field.

Everyone needs to stop trying to make every single bigger WR into the Hernandez role. The two TE offense only came about because Gronk and AH fell into our laps in the 2010 draft and both turned out to be UNIQUE. There is no other Gronk out there and there is no other Hern. Hern was 250 and ran like a WR. You don't see that much at all.

when we were winning SBs we didn't run the 2 TE set and we were fine. The personnel the team has now sets up to be a 3 WR 1 TE offense. LaFell may turn out to run the same sort of routes as Hern did but he will never be hern and no one will. I'd rather see LaFell on the outside opposite Dobson.

We don't need a 2 TE offense to be successful. 3 WR 1 TE will do just fine

joepatsfan said:

Everyone needs to stop trying to make every single bigger WR into the Hernandez role. The two TE offense only came about because Gronk and AH fell into our laps in the 2010 draft and both turned out to be UNIQUE. There is no other Gronk out there and there is no other Hern. Hern was 250 and ran like a WR. You don't see that much at all.

when we were winning SBs we didn't run the 2 TE set and we were fine. The personnel the team has now sets up to be a 3 WR 1 TE offense. LaFell may turn out to run the same sort of routes as Hern did but he will never be hern and no one will. I'd rather see LaFell on the outside opposite Dobson.

We don't need a 2 TE offense to be successful. 3 WR 1 TE will do just fine

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Hernandez lined up as a wide receiver 71% of the time in 2011 and 2012. I am not suggesting that we make LaFell a Y-TE and have him line up in line with the offensive line, I am suggesting that we have him align as the “A” on this diagram below.


In doing this you create matchup opportunities for LaFell either against smaller slot CBs or slower LBs and safeties. In addition, it keeps one of your best skill position run blockers close to the line.

If you want to call it a flex TE or a flex WR or just a flex player it does not really matter it is about creating matchup opportunities.

@Brady6 Oh I see you know, but the thing with LaFell is he DID play that exact spot in Carolina so what you are proposing is something he would be familiar with. He was their 'A', Smith the 'X', Olsen the 'Y' and Ginn Jr. the 'Z', so if you mean putting him in the slot WR spot then sure. I just hate how people continue to say Flex TE, because we don't need 2 TE and AH was a beyond unique player and we wont see someone like that again (on and off the field). But, your idea of creating a LaFell mismatch is a very good one and something he would be comfortable with

I assume this has been mentioned, but no matter how much one might want to hope LaFell could serve in a similar role to Hernandez, even if they lined up at the same spot and played the same role, there's one stat one can't get around

LaFell is 208 lbs
Hernandez was 250 lbs

I don't care how good a blocking WR LaFell is deemed to be. You will not get the same mismatches or blocking with him that you did with Hernandez.

BradyFTW! said:

LaFell (and this applies to Harrison, as well, if he makes the team) will probably run some of the routes that Hernandez ran. That won't make him a TE, though. If he can't line up off tackle and credibly block in the running game, then he isn't a TE. If the opposing D puts a CB on him, and that doesn't create a major advantage in the running game, then he isn't a TE (this is why I don't consider Jimmy Graham a TE either).

Could LaFell be a TE in the same way that someone like Jimmy Graham is? In name only, but in practice just being a big WR who operates out of the slot frequently, doesn't effectively block LBs, and rarely lines up as a 'traditional' TE? Sure - that's pretty much what he was in Carolina. But in my book at least, that doesn't make him a tight end. To be a tight end, you have to be a credible blocker.

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Remember what you are seeking. You are seeking a better 'move TE/H-back' or 'F' receiver replacement than Hoomanawanui was delegated to be, by default.

LaFell wins that battle in a breeze. Is he a competent in-line 'Y'? Of course not; but neither was APerp. Let Hoomanawanui do that. Is he a Star as an 'F', like Aperp? Of course not; but he doesn't have to be, merely better than Hooman.

LaFell has a resume that shows he ran a lot of those routes with Carolina.. He also ran 'X' routes too. Did you ever consider "Why" BB decided to sign him, instead of someone else?

In BB's eyes LaFell is a young veteran, with size that is a "three-fer".

1) He can add another 'X' to supplement Dobson;
2) He can be a better 'F' than unsuitable Hoomanawanui; and
3) He is a good blocker for a WR, which will help spring RBs in the Run game.