Johnny Manziel visiting Patriots

RayClay · Apr 2, 2014

borg said:
Is it just me or does anyone else agree that TB's face shows no sign of aging. Marino and Montano looked like old men when they retired...at 38. Whatever age defying regimen Super G has Brady into....sign me up. Maybe Brady is infallible after all

Brady probably still gets ID'd.

Froob · Apr 2, 2014

Interesting, wonder if this is legit interest or some kind of smokescreen. I doubt he falls low enough for us to take him. It'd have to be 3rd unless we end up with a surplus of 2nds or some ****. Haven't seen much of Manziel play but, he strikes me as a gamer. Not worried about his height. Brees and Wilson have already proven it doesn't matter that much.

PatsWickedPissah · Apr 2, 2014

Why Johnny's visit?
The answer is simple. Just another one of the many WTF? moves that we've seen BB make.
I swear that he sits in his office and chortles, cackles and snorts over fan reaction to his inexplicable draft moves as they go hysterically ballistic.
A guy needs something fun to relieve the pressure of running an NFL team.
Punking the fan base is BB's secret guilty pleasure.

Wilfork#75 · Apr 2, 2014

As Ben Volin pointed out on twitter, it's interesting that this information became public. The Pats are very cautious with what information gets out so this being made public means they want it out there. The Pats are just playing the game, I don't see any way they take a QB in round 1.

TriplecHamp · Apr 2, 2014

to be honest, when evaluating Johnny and Im certainly no professional but I said that he'd be a bust unless he went to the right QB coach/Offensive Coordinator. I think Bruce Arians could do a lot with him in Arizona and Carson Palmer is not the longterm answer their. They won in spite of him, and could be a player like Manziel away from getting to the NFCCG. A couple of other coordinators he could work well with were Kyle Shannahan, Jay Gruden and...Josh McDaniels. BB will do what he feels will help the team be in a position to win not only this year but in the future. If there is any way Mallet leaves for a 2nd we could take Manziel at 29 and go TE/DL/S/OL with our two 2nds and the third.

Snake Eyes · Apr 2, 2014

The Pats will likely have to go through an extremely thorough QB evaluation process in a few years when TFB hangs it up, hopefully it will be MANY years but it helps to be prepared, this is practice for the real thing.

If they go through the evaluation process now, and a few times with high ranking QBs, they should be in a MUCH better position when they need to go through it for real. The bonus of doing it now is they have a few years of time (hopefully) when they can compare real world results with the current evaluations.

When is Christian Hackenburg expected to declare?

ctpatsfan77 · Apr 2, 2014

50-yard-line said:
The more picks on guys like that, who don't fill a need for you, the better your chances of getting the guy you want.

Thing is, backup QB isn't, strictly speaking, a need in 2014. Unless you think the Pats can convince Mallett to continue riding the pine, though, it is an enormous existing need for 2015 and beyond.

ctpatsfan77 · Apr 2, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Why Johnny's visit?
The answer is simple. Just another one of the many WTF? moves that we've seen BB make.
I swear that he sits in his office and chortles, cackles and snorts over fan reaction to his inexplicable draft moves as they go hysterically ballistic.
A guy needs something fun to relieve the pressure of running an NFL team.
Punking the fan base is BB's secret guilty pleasure.

Given that each team is only allowed to bring in 30 players, I highly doubt that BB brings in players just for shiggles.

OTOH, I do believe that some of them are designed to sow panic/confusion among other teams (e.g., Gholston, Pat White).

PatsWickedPissah · Apr 2, 2014

Gosh, I guess I was wrong

Patriotic Fervor · Apr 2, 2014

patsinthesnow said:
I've stated in the draft forum that if Manziel fell to 25 I would trade up to pass the Browns and draft him. *

*Nothing to do with the "Brady is done" crap. Manziel is #2 behind Donald for players I want in this draft. He's the next elite QB in this league.

Also,

Rodgers was drafted when Favre was 36.
Plummer was drafted when Elway was 37.
Osweiler was drafted when Manning was 37.

I think its naive to think BB wouldn't draft the right QB high.

Plummer was drafted in the second round by Arizona.

Why would they care how old John Elway was?

Why would they care about Elway, period?

Brady6 · Apr 2, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Why Johnny's visit?
The answer is simple. Just another one of the many WTF? moves that we've seen BB make.
I swear that he sits in his office and chortles, cackles and snorts over fan reaction to his inexplicable draft moves as they go hysterically ballistic.
A guy needs something fun to relieve the pressure of running an NFL team.
Punking the fan base is BB's secret guilty pleasure.

I don't even know if it's WTF. I think there are multiple reasons to bring these quarterbacks in for a visit.

1. Four of the top five teams picking in the 2014 draft are in the AFC so it is extremely likely that the Patriots will be facing them regularly.

2. With four quarterbacks (Manziel, Bortles, Bridgewater, and Carr) all potentially first round picks it is possible one of them could drop. If they drop it would be important to know if they should draft them or how much of a ransom they should ask for from a team in the second looking to trade up to #29.

3. The Patriots have Ryan Mallett who has been associated with trade rumors and reportedly the team wants a second round pick in exchange for him. It makes sense for the team to look at these players so they can market Mallett against them and gauge Mallett's value compared to these players.

I don't think it's a question of why would Belichick do this, I would say why wouldn't he?

pats4life12 · Apr 2, 2014

Why not what does he have to lose. If I was gonna get drafted I would visit every team just to say I visited them.

SalemPats · Apr 2, 2014

pats4life12 said:
Why not what does he have to lose. If I was gonna get drafted I would visit every team just to say I visited them.

Also, the draft is a game, if Manziel does slip perhaps a team might want to trade up if they fear us taking them.

pats4life12 · Apr 2, 2014

SalemPats said:
Also, the draft is a game, if Manziel does slip perhaps a team might want to trade up if they fear us taking them.

Very true I did not think of that. That's a good point.

SB39 · Apr 2, 2014

ctpatsfan77 said:
Given that each team is only allowed to bring in 30 players, I highly doubt that BB brings in players just for shiggles.

OTOH, I do believe that some of them are designed to sow panic/confusion among other teams (e.g., Gholston, Pat White).

I agree 100% with your first sentence, although I think your second sentence contradicts it just a week bit.

There are only so many hours in a day. I do not believe Belichick is wasting his valuable time bringing a guy in just to mess with the minds of other teams, scout a potential opponent (one we may quite likely never face) or anticipating free agency 5 years down the road.

Belichick sees Manziel as someone who may drop and be available, so he is scouting him as a potential draft pick and backup QB. You'll note he didn't bring Clowney or Bortles in. If he was going to scout a future opponent, scouting those guys would be far more valuable.

I just don't see why others have to make it any more complicated than that.

danmateus · Apr 3, 2014

SB39 said:
I agree 100% with your first sentence, although I think your second sentence contradicts it just a week bit.

There are only so many hours in a day. I do not believe Belichick is wasting his valuable time bringing a guy in just to mess with the minds of other teams, scout a potential opponent (one we may quite likely never face) or anticipating free agency 5 years down the road.

Belichick sees Manziel as someone who may drop and be available, so he is scouting him as a potential draft pick and backup QB. You'll note he didn't bring Clowney or Bortles in. If he was going to scout a future opponent, scouting those guys would be far more valuable.

I just don't see why others have to make it any more complicated than that.

I'm not trying to insult anyone but there are many fans who just aren't with it enough to understand the complexities with building a football team. I think all these arm chair gm's have played too much Madden football. You can't just sit on your hands and tell yourself you have Tom Brady so you don't need to give a lot thought to the qb position. Bill Belichick would not be doing his job if he didn't kick the tires on potential franchise Qb's when his starting qb is going to be 37 and moves slower than a turtle. Another shot at his knees could end his career sooner than expected then where would we be? These are the things that Bill must plan for whether for today or 4 years from now, he has to have a transition plan in mind for that position. And I believe that the patriots organization is now getting into a mindset to start scouting the higher end Qb's coming out of college. And that doesn't mean they will draft one this year but it does mean they are giving thought and they are trying to get a feel for the new breed of Qb's coming out like Manziel. They need to have a firm grasp of what kind of qb they want when they pick the qb to take the torch from Brady. You don't want to be like the Dolphins who had no plan after Marino retired.

Kontradiction · Apr 3, 2014

danmateus said:
I'm not trying to insult anyone but there are many fans who just aren't with it enough to understand the complexities with building a football team. I think all these arm chair gm's have played too much Madden football. You can't just sit on your hands and tell yourself you have Tom Brady so you don't need to give a lot thought to the qb position. Bill Belichick would not be doing his job if he didn't kick the tires on potential franchise Qb's when his starting qb is going to be 37 and moves slower than a turtle. Another shot at his knees could end his career sooner than expected then where would we be? These are the things that Bill must plan for whether for today or 4 years from now, he has to have a transition plan in mind for that position. And I believe that the patriots organization is now getting into a mindset to start scouting the higher end Qb's coming out of college. And that doesn't mean they will draft one this year but it does mean they are giving thought and they are trying to get a feel for the new breed of Qb's coming out like Manziel. They need to have a firm grasp of what kind of qb they want when they pick the qb to take the torch from Brady. You don't want to be like the Dolphins who had no plan after Marino retired.

Exactly. I'm not as high on Manziel as I used to be but, if Bridgewater falls, I would be all over him like white on rice. Yes, we do have more pressing matters. But if you can get your hands on a potential franchise quarterback either late in the first or beyond that, you absolutely pull the trigger.

Brady_12 · Apr 3, 2014

I'd like to officially announce my desire for the Pats to start the "Suck for Hackenberg" campaign. Or at least set up a trade with the Redskins for their 2017 1st round pick.

VJCPatriot · Apr 3, 2014

Snake Eyes said:
Running QBs don't last, they get a bunch of highlights in some big regular season games and then they fail. Robert Griffen didn't even last a full season before he got injured because he ran and hasn't been nearly the player he was.

Yup, you're right. That Russell Wilson kid as an abject failure... ooops Super Bowl Champion! Can we say gimmick? Steve Young -- also a one trick pony!

Quite honestly I'm not sold on Johnny Manziel because of his reported attitude. But to say that mobile QBs don't win in the NFL. Well it's just not true.

SB39 · Apr 3, 2014

VJCPatriot said:
Yup, you're right. That Russell Wilson kid as an abject failure... ooops Super Bowl Champion! Can we say gimmick? Steve Young -- also a one trick pony!

Quite honestly I'm not sold on Johnny Manziel because of his reported attitude. But to say that mobile QBs don't win in the NFL. Well it's just not true.

Mobile quarterbacks who can't pass don't win in the NFL. Randall Cunningham and Michael Vick are probably the best running QB's ever and they ain't won squat.

Mobile QB's who are actually good passers are an extremely rare breed. Steve Young and John Elway come to mind. If there's another one of those coming up in the draft, let us know so we can move heaven and earth to get them (and no ,Teddy Bridgewater is not one. And neither is Jameis Winston.)

But the "wave of the future" is the same as the wave of the past: Pocket passers.

Johnny Manziel visiting Patriots

Hall of Fame Poster

Independent Investigator & pliable af

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Pro Bowl Player

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

In the Starting Line-Up

On the Roster

On my retirement tour.

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

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