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Hypothetical – If you could only keep one who would it be Amendola or Edelman?


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If you could only bring one back in 2014 who would it be?


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So your problem comes down to Josh McDaniels. What does it even matter on non guaranteed contracts? They mean nothing. What was Lloyd paid in total? I don't know or care. Amendola will only make the 28 mil if he becomes worth it, as in value. He either earns it and we win, or he gets cut after next year and we win.

My problem is with the decision to invest years and money into players like Lloyd and Amendola who have never been part of a winning organization and come with baggage either in the form of injuries or character problems. As we saw clearly with Lloyd’s exit and the drafting of Dobson this season the best way to build a team is through the draft and my concern is that once again we wasted a year on a veteran like Amendola who under delivered and will have to draft a slot receiver in the draft much like we had to do to replace Lloyd. Right now we have Edelman but I do not want to see a homegrown player walk away and then have a duplicate of 2013 in 2014 for Amendola and see us using 2-3 draft picks in 2015 to get that position back to where it needs to be.
 
This is true and here is the problem I have with this situation at the end of the day:

  1. Danny Amendola 5 years $28.5 million
  2. Brandon Lloyd 3 years $12 million
  3. Daniel Fells 3 years $5.25 million
  4. Traded for Greg Salas giving up a late round 2015 draft pick

Seem like we are bringing in some McDaniels endorsed players and investing value in them and not receiving much of a reward while at the same players like Welker, Woodhead and others have moved on and been productive for their new teams at a low annual cost.

Would you necessarily blame it on Josh McDaniels, or just on the fact that they thought that they could improve their odds by bringing in players who had success in the system? I believe it's the latter, and I don't have any problem with that myself. Some moves have worked out while others have not. The ones that haven't have been unfortunate, but one way or another, we still seem to be set up nicely in the wide receiver dept for the future.
 
I guess I question why people expect a player that has done something for nearly 5 seasons to all of sudden become an all pro Wes Welker quality player seems almost delusional.

#1. Amendola was definitely much more productive than Welker through years one, two, and three of their NFL careers.

#2. He led the NFL in kick return yardage his rookie season, and showed elusiveness in both KR and PR throughout his first 2 seasons as he put up big numbers in both categories.

#3. He had 85 catches in just his 2nd yr in the NFL, so he had already really proved himself a long time ago.

#4. He had 63 catches last year in only 8 games started. Many felt that he would have had production in the 100 catch or more range had he started in more games, which was certainly very reasonable to believe.

#5. The thought of playing with Brady/Belichick/McDaniels' system led many to believe that he could replicate these numbers, and many still do. Just b/c he hasn't done so in his first 6-7 games (with at least 2, if not 3 considered as "good" games) doesn't mean much in my opinion. It's way too early to give up on anyone, just the same as we wouldn't with a newly drafted player either.


The biggest question of course, is "can he stay healthy?" I wouldn't think that would be any different for Julian Edelman though, who has been quite injured himself, and has yet to really prove otherwise.
 
Lots of good opinion in this thread, now I'll ruin it lol.

All I can say is that I'd like to see some continuity... some consistency through a few years, of solid offensive weapons that can remain relatively healthy... and a handful of Edelman-types who can fill a void or step up and get the job done. Edelman has done a yeoman's job this season, I tip my hat to him and am glad that he's made the team year in year out.

I like what Edelman brings to the return game (think back to Pats at Bears a couple years ago -- just "wow") and his contributions to the offense, this season especially. Pocket Welker but with a better return game, IMHO.

Amendola is still a big ? with a capital "Q" due to injuries, though his toughness in the Bills game is just "Holy Cow!". I'd really love to see him in 16 games, and this is the conundrum -- will he ever complete 16 games? Maybe some lessons on how to not get hit from Brandon Lloyd? :D

Total value today goes to Edelman. He's been here from the go, he's dependable and dangerous in the return. Amendola may have more "upside", but his history is questionable to doubtful to out.

That's my $0.02. $0.0173 Canadian.
 
Would you necessarily blame it on Josh McDaniels, or just on the fact that they thought that they could improve their odds by bringing in players who had success in the system? I believe it's the latter, and I don't have any problem with that myself. Some moves have worked out while others have not. The ones that haven't have been unfortunate, but one way or another, we still seem to be set up nicely in the wide receiver dept for the future.

The 2006 Dolphins were coached by Nick Saban who left for Alabama and the Dolphins were in complete in utter turmoil in wake of that, Belichick was able to identify a good player and also mostly gather information from Saban and pull off one of the all-time heists of a trade for Welker. Jeff Fisher and the Rams are not in that condition outside of Belichick Fisher is one of the best coaches in all of the NFL and if he genuinely believed that Danny Amendola was the next Wes Welker or better he would have signed him, heck he would have tagged him. The circumstances that allowed us to catch lighting in the bottle with Welker did not exist this offseason, McDaniels is not Saban and his ability to assess a prospect is not even close to Saban’s, as I said the Rams are not in turmoil and Amendola was not on the trade market he was on the free agent market.

In my opinion players who leave in free agency are often let go of because their existing teams do not want them anymore, you very rarely see Drew Brees or Curtis Martin type situation especially on the offensive side of the ball unless it is a player who is later in age, carries baggage or is highly overrated and their existing team does not see the value. I think no matter the organization the team equip best to assess the value of a player is the team that had the player in its organization an example would be Seattle saw Amendola like value in Branch back in the mid 2000’s we did not see that same value, Branch left and we as the team who had him here and saw him daily did in fact assess his value best. Look at this past offseason Jennings, Wallace, Amendola, Kruger, Bryant and many of the other top 50 free agents who commanded good size contracts for multiple years on the free agent market all have failed to meet expectations and for the most part their prior teams have not missed them at all.

Basically what I am saying is if the Rams didn’t want Amendola enough to extend him in prior years or at least transition tag him there is no way that he is anywhere near as good as Wes Welker, Jeff Fisher as I said might not be Belichick but he is not slouch.
 
#1. Amendola was definitely much more productive than Welker through years one, two, and three of their NFL careers.

#2. He led the NFL in kick return yardage his rookie season, and showed elusiveness in both KR and PR throughout his first 2 seasons as he put up big numbers in both categories.

#3. He had 85 catches in just his 2nd yr in the NFL, so he had already really proved himself a long time ago.

#4. He had 63 catches last year in only 8 games started. Many felt that he would have had production in the 100 catch or more range had he started in more games, which was certainly very reasonable to believe.

#5. The thought of playing with Brady/Belichick/McDaniels' system led many to believe that he could replicate these numbers, and many still do. Just b/c he hasn't done so in his first 6-7 games (with at least 2, if not 3 considered as "good" games) doesn't mean much in my opinion. It's way too early to give up on anyone, just the same as we wouldn't with a newly drafted player either.


The biggest question of course, is "can he stay healthy?" I wouldn't think that would be any different for Julian Edelman though, who has been quite injured himself, and has yet to really prove otherwise.

Biggest difference between Amendola and Welker is when we signed Welker he was had just doubled his productivity in year 2 with the Dolphins and then built off that in his 3rd year here, Amendola peaked as player in 2010 and since has not shown any significant improvements, his second NFL season remains his most productive in his career and baring some Calvin Johnson performance that will likely remain the case through 5 seasons.

If you look at Brandon Lloyd’s 2011 numbers he played in 11 games had 51 receptions, 683 yards and 5 touchdowns with the Rams that projects to over 16 games to 74 receptions, 993 yards and 7 touchdowns, people thought Lloyd in this system with Brady was going improve but with us in 2012 in 16 games he had 74 receptions, 911 yards and 4 touchdowns. Pretty much a spade being a spade.
 
I want to something suggesting he be out for the season due suffering a groin injury in week one.

A return to full activity may take 8 to 12 weeks or longer.

Contributors

Richard Villar is one of the top Orthopaedic Surgeons in the World. As former Surgeon to the British Army Special Air Service Regiment he has practised medicine in some of the most remote and challenging environments.

John Williams is an Osteopath and a Sports Injury Therapist. John trained at the College of Osteopaths in London, is a registered Osteopath with the General Osteopathic Council and a member of the British Osteopathic Association. He also trained as a Sports Therapist and has taught Sports Therapy for Premier Training & Development, one of the UK's top training establishments. John is a keen sportsman who played soccer, ran marathons and competed successfully at national level in Karate.

So, you've got two-three months or longer for someone in his first year with the team. Then he needs to get back in synch with his new QB.

Looks like IR to me.
 
I would go with Edelman on this they both are very good but Amendola get hurt to often. Edelman is always there when your team needs him.
 
So, you've got two-three months or longer for someone in his first year with the team. Then he needs to get back in synch with his new QB.

Looks like IR to me.

It’s been 13 weeks since he suffered the injury I am going to be honest and say with the type of medical staff that NFL teams have and the treatments available in modern medicine if Amendola isn’t recovered from or near fully recovered at this point and time I would be really surprised.

For what its worth there is a lot of players bothered by a groin injury in the NFL right now, big names too:

1. Jeff Demps – IR
2. DJ Hayden – IR
3. Seneca Wallace – IR
4. Dustin Hopkins – IR
5. Edgar Jones – IR w/return
6. Dimitri Patterson – Out
7. Trumaine McBride - Out
8. Brandon Browner – Out
9. Gregory Toler – Out
10. Jay Cutler – Out
11. Anthony Walters – Out
12. Jay Ratliff – Questionable
13. Kyle Arrington – Questionable
14. Vontae Davis – Questionable
15. Josh Gordy – Questionable
16. Darrelle Revis – Probable
17. Hakeem Nicks – Probable
18. Danny Amendola – Probable
19. Adrian Peterson – Probable
20. Jeff Allen – Probable
21. Cecil Shorts – Probable
22. Jeff Tarpinian – Probable
23. Steve Johnson – Probable
 
It’s been 13 weeks since he suffered the injury I am going to be honest and say with the type of medical staff that NFL teams have and the treatments available in modern medicine if Amendola isn’t recovered from or near fully recovered at this point and time I would be really surprised.

For what its worth there is a lot of players bothered by a groin injury in the NFL right now, big names too:

1. Jeff Demps – IR
2. DJ Hayden – IR
3. Seneca Wallace – IR
4. Dustin Hopkins – IR
5. Edgar Jones – IR w/return
6. Dimitri Patterson – Out
7. Trumaine McBride - Out
8. Brandon Browner – Out
9. Gregory Toler – Out
10. Jay Cutler – Out
11. Anthony Walters – Out
12. Jay Ratliff – Questionable
13. Kyle Arrington – Questionable
14. Vontae Davis – Questionable
15. Josh Gordy – Questionable
16. Darrelle Revis – Probable
17. Hakeem Nicks – Probable
18. Danny Amendola – Probable
19. Adrian Peterson – Probable
20. Jeff Allen – Probable
21. Cecil Shorts – Probable
22. Jeff Tarpinian – Probable
23. Steve Johnson – Probable

He didn't have the operation then rehabilitate.

Don't be obtuse, he has a total abductor tear.

Name one of those who has a 3rd degree tear, just google their names and abductor.
 
I am just looking to see what others think . . . . I figured this type of poll could offer some real insight into things. For me this message board is an opportunity to learn and engage in stimulating football discussion I do not just parade around thinking my opinion is the only opinion.

Having pointed out what was lacking in the poll, specifically criteria omitted you responded

All great points and these are all factors that you can use to determine who to vote for.

If you really wanted to know what others thought, it would appear reasonable to define the question. Otherwise, it appears a lame poll replete with ambiguities to support a player you are "campaigning for" (or in this case, against). Injured Amendola against healthy Edelman? How ingenious. And with

Wow Edelman hasn’t dominated like this since last Sunday

Edelman – 79%
Amendola – 21%

we can throw out any hope that you wanted to conduct a scientific poll, and just write it off as silly with a design of using these numbers again in support of . . .

Seem like we are bringing in some McDaniels endorsed players and investing value in them and not receiving much of a reward while at the same players like Welker, Woodhead and others have moved on and been productive for their new teams at a low annual cost.

. . . your insane McDaniels theory. You claim you have nothing against Amendola (I doubt it, since repeated posts have identified Amendola as McDaniels's boy and part of McDaniels's elaborate scheme to bring in lame players that tax the Pats salary cap). You are, however, the Mayor of Crazy Town when it comes to Josh McDaniels. This just seems like a round-a-bout way of trying to discredit a prior McDaniels player in your campaign against McDaniels. Paid too much this year for Amendola? Probably yes, given his injury. But what is a guy with 85 receptions on a lousy Rams team worth? What is the same guy worth when he likely needs no transition period due to the familiar offense under McDaniels? Do you BB may have looked at these issues a bit when Amendola was signed?

You have some great posts on other topics, but you are a full-on, tinfoil hat wearing crazy conspiracy theorist on this topic. You just watched BB roll the dice on an OT decision with the Broncos, a decision few head coaches would make. He will take risks, both on the field and with personnel decisions. That OT decision was BB and nobody else. Adalius Thomas was a gem from BB as well. As was Brady.

From all your discussion on this McDaniels topic, you apparently believe BB is some tapioca pudding slurping octogenarian sitting in his bed in a nursing home while Josh McDaniels, the OC with no apparent authority on personnel decisions, forces a pen on him, points to the contracts and says "Sign here. Sign here. Initial here" while BB stares blankly ahead. One of the smartest coaches ever, the guy who likely has done more film study than anyone in history, has been bamboozled by this OC into signing a bunch of under-performers. If you believe that, then you really need to read more on the head coach of this team and how he runs things, because that theory is insanity, pure and simple. If you need more convincing, watch the Rodney Harrison interview from a few years ago and learn why he joined the Pats. I'll answer it - BB impressed him to no end when he rattled off specifics of plays he was involved in from games 4 and 5 years ago. Maybe he just took the day off with all the McDaniels players, to his horror, and they didn't pan out. Not bloody likely.

So in the end,

1. you think McDaniels is a lousy OC who convinced BB to sign bad players to bad contracts

2. you cited Amendola as an illustration of your McDaniels issues

3. you have no issue with Amendola, but don't like - ta da - his contract.

So does this poll become the launching point for a new anti-McDaniels tirade, with numbers made meaningless by eliminating contact details and health status prior to the contract period of 2014, or are you really just curious about Edelman and Amendola and who people prefer right now?

Again, I actually enjoy reading many of your posts not on this topic because you do offer statistics when you make an argument, but you got beaten like a rented mule by numerous posters in that McDaniels thread because of your unfounded belief that the players under an OC who join the Pats after playing for him previously must mean the OC is directing BB to sign his former players to the detriment of the Pats. BB is the Pats, plain and simple. He coaches coaches and players. There is no way these are not his decisions and his decisions alone. Try a poll asking if you believe that McDaniels was the decision-maker in adding his former players to the Pats roster and see how those numbers play out.
 
He didn't have the operation then rehabilitate.

Don't be obtuse, he has a total abductor tear.

Name one of those who has a 3rd degree tear, just google their names and abductor.

Everything I have read says he should be recovered by now: http://www.harbinclinic.com/umages/pdfs/adductor.pdf

If he is not then the team made a mistake and allowed him to come back to soon, the priority should have been his health for the playoffs if he really can perform at a Wes Welker level we should not have risked that to bring him back for a games against the Bengals, Saints, Jets, Dolphins and Steelers and sat him through the bye week.

P.S. Kudos on the use of obtuse :rocker:
 
Everything I have read says he should be recovered by now: http://www.harbinclinic.com/umages/pdfs/adductor.pdf

If he is not then the team made a mistake and allowed him to come back to soon, the priority should have been his health for the playoffs if he really can perform at a Wes Welker level we should not have risked that to bring him back for a games against the Bengals, Saints, Jets, Dolphins and Steelers and sat him through the bye week.

P.S. Kudos on the use of obtuse :rocker:

He only took off three weeks.
 
I'm sure you're smarter than Bill Belichick, so we'll leave it at that.

I think he does a pretty good job myself. In fact, if ochostinko incurred a grade three abductor strain and decided to play through it instead of getting surgery and shutting down for the season (2-3 months + rehab) I'd cut him some slack.

Of course even that scenario has problems because Amendola came in a looked like a veteran receiver on the same page with TFB catching ten balls despite leaving and returning with a severe injury and Ochostinko was still having trouble finding his jock in week 14.

No one need look further for the definition of bust. Ocho Cinco, el nombre es Bust. Amendola isn't even in the same galaxy as Ocho Cinco, completely unworthy of bust consideration at this point.
 
One of the reasons to guarantee most of a second year is so that Belichick and the team doesn't need with the nonsense in this thread. Amendola was signed to a 2 year contract with a 3 year team-only option for continuation after that. The team could have given more in bonus money, but the team and Danny agree to this 2-year deal.

The team will make decisions on the future of Amendola after these 2 years, perhaps not even until camp of his third year.

There is no decision to make now or next year.

Exactly. There isn't a decision and it just isn't discussion worthy. Amendola is a Patriot and will be a Patriot next year, period. And to speculate, I'd be pretty surprised if he isn't putting up very good production in 2014. I also haven't given up that he will be productive up through the SB victory :D (hopefully his injury can be manageable for him/the team).
 
Having pointed out what was lacking in the poll, specifically criteria omitted you responded

If you really wanted to know what others thought, it would appear reasonable to define the question. Otherwise, it appears a lame poll replete with ambiguities to support a player you are "campaigning for" (or in this case, against). Injured Amendola against healthy Edelman? How ingenious. And with



we can throw out any hope that you wanted to conduct a scientific poll, and just write it off as silly with a design of using these numbers again in support of . . .



. . . your insane McDaniels theory. You claim you have nothing against Amendola (I doubt it, since repeated posts have identified Amendola as McDaniels's boy and part of McDaniels's elaborate scheme to bring in lame players that tax the Pats salary cap). You are, however, the Mayor of Crazy Town when it comes to Josh McDaniels. This just seems like a round-a-bout way of trying to discredit a prior McDaniels player in your campaign against McDaniels. Paid too much this year for Amendola? Probably yes, given his injury. But what is a guy with 85 receptions on a lousy Rams team worth? What is the same guy worth when he likely needs no transition period due to the familiar offense under McDaniels? Do you BB may have looked at these issues a bit when Amendola was signed?

You have some great posts on other topics, but you are a full-on, tinfoil hat wearing crazy conspiracy theorist on this topic. You just watched BB roll the dice on an OT decision with the Broncos, a decision few head coaches would make. He will take risks, both on the field and with personnel decisions. That OT decision was BB and nobody else. Adalius Thomas was a gem from BB as well. As was Brady.

From all your discussion on this McDaniels topic, you apparently believe BB is some tapioca pudding slurping octogenarian sitting in his bed in a nursing home while Josh McDaniels, the OC with no apparent authority on personnel decisions, forces a pen on him, points to the contracts and says "Sign here. Sign here. Initial here" while BB stares blankly ahead. One of the smartest coaches ever, the guy who likely has done more film study than anyone in history, has been bamboozled by this OC into signing a bunch of under-performers. If you believe that, then you really need to read more on the head coach of this team and how he runs things, because that theory is insanity, pure and simple. If you need more convincing, watch the Rodney Harrison interview from a few years ago and learn why he joined the Pats. I'll answer it - BB impressed him to no end when he rattled off specifics of plays he was involved in from games 4 and 5 years ago. Maybe he just took the day off with all the McDaniels players, to his horror, and they didn't pan out. Not bloody likely.

So in the end,

1. you think McDaniels is a lousy OC who convinced BB to sign bad players to bad contracts

2. you cited Amendola as an illustration of your McDaniels issues

3. you have no issue with Amendola, but don't like - ta da - his contract.

So does this poll become the launching point for a new anti-McDaniels tirade, with numbers made meaningless by eliminating contact details and health status prior to the contract period of 2014, or are you really just curious about Edelman and Amendola and who people prefer right now?

Again, I actually enjoy reading many of your posts not on this topic because you do offer statistics when you make an argument, but you got beaten like a rented mule by numerous posters in that McDaniels thread because of your unfounded belief that the players under an OC who join the Pats after playing for him previously must mean the OC is directing BB to sign his former players to the detriment of the Pats. BB is the Pats, plain and simple. He coaches coaches and players. There is no way these are not his decisions and his decisions alone. Try a poll asking if you believe that McDaniels was the decision-maker in adding his former players to the Pats roster and see how those numbers play out.

Rarely are politeness and pwnage synthesized so masterfully. Well done. And bonus points for the utterly inane response this elicited.
 
He only took off three weeks.

I know and I don’t think that was good idea, he should have taken more time, if his play is as impaired by this injury as you and other on the board suggest as much as I commend his willingness to play through the pain what we really need is a top tier slot receiver in January and hopefully February. If Amendola is in fact as good as Welker or could be that type of playoff presence could be key and I am really confused why we would risk that to bring him back in the first 8 weeks of the season, I know we had some struggles but we could have made it work we were 4-0 when he returned so it was not as if we were at risk to miss the playoffs due to his absence.
 
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