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Week 6 at Seattle Seahawks.... piece of cake, right?


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5 paragraphs and I see you failed to admit to the fact that it was an interception.

The Packers made the play to win the game, replacements blew it. Bottom line

Eh, it was a close call for sure -- a bit closer that it appeared. Five days after that game ... KCPQ released footage of that play from the reverse angle -- footage that I'd say the majority of the country never got to see. If you look from that angle, it appears that Tate had inside position, had more than 1 hand on the ball, and that it was actually Jennings who was trying to take the ball away from him ...

KCPQ Reverse Angle of the Tate-Jennings Play

Whatever though. It's history. As I already admitted, it should have been pass interference ... which would have negated the play in the first place and ended the game right there. But OK, if it makes you feel better -- it was an interception. Fine.

It changes nothing though. As I said, bad calls happen in the NFL. You don't have to like it, but they're a part of the game. How about the Immaculate Reception? John Clayton recently talked about the fact that Franco Harris's reception wasn't a legal play because the ball had touched another offensive player (John Furqua) prior to Franco's catch. The refs blew that call and Raider fans were naturally upset. Sorry though Raider fans -- score more points and it wouldn't have ever been an issue. One of the refs from that 2005 Super Bowl admitted to Seahawk players that he personally made 2 bad calls that may have affected the eventual outcome of that game. As painful as it is to say, I gotta admit that my team didn't score enough points ... and didn't make enough crucial plays on enough occasions throughout that game to win.

This Green Bay-Seattle game was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen in my entire life. There were numerous bad calls (and non calls) on BOTH teams throughout this game. That said in this particular case, the Packers could have alleviated any controversy altogether by just scoring more points ... but they didn't. Bottom line -- don't put yourself in the position of where a ref's call could decide the game. Let your play decide the eventual outcome of the game ... not the refs.
 
By the sounds of it the Seahawks (suspect) OL may well be the key in this game.
 
I've heard some hawks fans who were being real sappy about it and saying the Packers got hosed and they would have rather lost, but most of us think that was a simultaneous catch.

Do most Pats fans think that CameraGate really didn't have an impact on their SB win over the Rams? lololol

Whee this is fun!

Nice job trying to compare apples to oranges. I applaud the effort but try harder next time
 
By the sounds of it the Seahawks (suspect) OL may well be the key in this game.

Unfortunately, it's going to be key on the Seahawks side of the ball especially. As previously mentioned, it was announced yesterday afternoon that RG John Moffitt is out for this game with a knee issue. I believe that would mean that LG Paul McQuistan will be shifted over to RG ... and that James Carpenter will play at LG. Besides the whole continuity issue, Carpenter has been a bit suspect in pass protection. So yeah most definitely, it's going to be a key.
 
Unfortunately, it's going to be key on the Seahawks side of the ball especially. As previously mentioned, it was announced yesterday afternoon that RG John Moffitt is out for this game with a knee issue. I believe that would mean that LG Paul McQuistan will be shifted over to RG ... and that James Carpenter will play at LG. Besides the whole continuity issue, Carpenter has been a bit suspect in pass protection. So yeah most definitely, it's going to be a key.
The positional shuffling won't mitigate any of inconsistency that OL has demonstrated thus far this season. Against what is a strength for the Pats, their front 7, it could be very problematic. Especially so if one believes that the Seattle offense needs to score more than the 14, 13 and 16 points they have put up their last 3 games played. I think it'll be a major challenge for them to score more. The question then becomes ..... can Seattle's defense hold the Pats to less than, say 16 points? Not sure when the Pats offense scored so few points! Anyone?
 
I've just decided to chime in here this week to give Pats fans an idea of what they're going to face this weekend ... and to get more of a sense of what we'll be facing as well. I'm just here to give honest scouting reports from someone who's followed this team and the NFL for 30 years -- that's all.

As far as Carroll as an OC -- that remains to be seen IMO ... BUT for sure, a whole lot of people (including myself) haven't been all that happy with the play calling this year thus far. Carroll himself has admitted that he's to blame -- no one else -- for holding back the reigns on the offense. Basically, his rationale is that he hasn't wanted to put the burden on Russell Wilson for having to throw a ton and "win" a game by himself (just be a game manager). I can see his point but personally, it's driven me a bit crazy ... which has (I think) made a lot of Seahawk fans miss the days of the offense under Mike Holmgren. That said from what I can see, Holmgren for as much of an offensive guru as he was had certain fatal flaws that Carroll doesn't appear to have.

Well I mis spoke also. I meant to say that the last poster building Carroll as a great OC and visionary was a joke. Very nice run down, thank you.
 
The positional shuffling won't mitigate any of inconsistency that OL has demonstrated thus far this season. Against what is a strength for the Pats, their front 7, it could be very problematic. Especially so if one believes that the Seattle offense needs to score more than the 14, 13 and 16 points they have put up their last 3 games played. I think it'll be a major challenge for them to score more. The question then becomes ..... can Seattle's defense hold the Pats to less than, say 16 points? Not sure when the Pats offense scored so few points! Anyone?

2010 is the last year the Patriots scored fewer than 16 points in a game. They were held to 14 on two occasions that year.
 
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Do most Pats fans think that CameraGate really didn't have an impact on their SB win over the Rams? lololol

Whee this is fun!

Given that the story turned out to be BS, yeah.

Patriots lawsuit against Herald appears unlikely - The Boston Globe
Yesterday's Herald cover, which typically features a single splashy tabloid headline, depicted the hands of a Patriots player raising the silver Vince Lombardi trophy into the air. Below the headline - "SORRY, PATS" - was the Patriots logo. "We own up to error on walkthrough story," it said below.

On the back page the paper published the headline, "Our mistake." It all pointed to an unsigned, three-paragraph mea culpa on Page 79 titled "Apology."

In the apology, the newspaper said it had "neither possessed nor viewed a tape" of the St. Louis Rams' practice before publishing the story on Feb. 2, nor did the paper speak to anyone who had seen such a tape. "We should not have published the allegation in the absence of firmer verification," the apology said.

"We now know that this report was false, and that no tape of the walkthrough ever existed," the paper added.
 
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Hope you are wrong and neither team takes cheap shots at the oppositions knees. Pats are an old school team and the old school way of dealing with those issues is to return in kind. I would like to see both teams leave the game healthy.

Its a perfectly leagle move. I am just not a big fan of it because it can lead to injuries. There is a reason it is not allowed outside of the LOS. I would rather no teams were able to do it at all.
I too hope it does not happen. I want both teams to walk away from this healthy.

I just have a bad feeling he is going to be on his butt for a lot of this game. Don't be supprized, its big part of the ZBS.
 
2010 is the last year the Patriots scored fewer than 10 points in a game. They were held to 14 on two occasions that year.

Do you mean "less than 16"?
 
On the question of potential weaknesses of the Patriot Offense ...

Pressure up the middle, getting to Tom, has typically been the only way to slow the O down. There are a lot of "hot read" weapons you have to cover if you do that though- Welker, Gronk, Hernandez (hopefully), and Lloyd.

It is also hard to blitz when the Pats are in hurry-up mode, because the pace is unlike any hurry-up you have seen. You can't often use a specialty personnel package, because TB will make sure to exploit it and never let it get off the field, and communication is bound to be rushed.

Up here, on Thursdays 950 KJR-am's Mitch Levy holds a Seahawks Roundtable with local beat writers and Hugh Millen (former NFL and Husky QB). During their discussions there, they talked about the fact that Seattle may actually be the best suited of any NFL team to deal with the substitution issue. One thing that Carroll and the rest of his staff have sought to build in to this team is versatility. For example, with LB's you traditionally think of drafting guys who are either small and extremely fast ... or large and powerful (sacrificing some of that speed). The Seahawks have chosen a middle ground, going after that 235-240 pound LB who is a bit of both. They have also prided themselves in training all of their LB's to play all 3 LB positions (WLB, MLB, and SAM). Many of their defensive lineman are kind of like that as well -- guys who are a bit interchangeable in terms of their roles. Versatility is something that Carroll has highly valued. So, there may honestly not be a whole lot of substituting going on, as there are a lot of guys on this defense who are equally good at playing either the run or the pass. The only exceptions to that might be Red Bryant (who is a real run stuffer) ... and Bruce Irvin (simply more of a pass rush specialist at this point). So this defense's overall versatility might come in to play here in terms of that no huddle attack.

  • Last year, the Patriots were the worst in the NFL at giving up plays of 20 yards or more. So far this year, the Patriots are the worst in the NFL at giving up plays of 20 yards or more, having already allowed 27 of them in 5 games.
  • They're allowing opposition passers a QB rating of 96.3, which is the 11th worst in the NFL.
  • They allow an average of 7.7 yards per pass, which is good for 10th worst in the NFL.
  • They allow a completion percentage of 65.1, which is 8th worst in the NFL.
  • They are tied for second worst, with 12 TDs allowed.
  • They are tied for 19th in sacks

In short, the pass defense still sucks, although there seems to be some improvement when you use the eye test, and the front seven seems a lot stronger overall. If I were a Seahawks fan, I'd be pinning my hopes on a breakout passing game by young Mr. Wilson. Until the Patriots prove that they can slow down an opponent's passing attack, there's really no reason for teams to do anything else.

Hawkblogger (a very well respected Seahawks blogger, even by the local media) talked about those statistics himself over on his site on Tuesday. He compared some of those statistics in relation to the Panthers, asking the question of whether the Seahawks offense will be able to have similar (or even better) success. Another one he shared was this ...

New England allows 44% of 3rd downs to be converted (25th in the NFL), compared to 46% for the Panthers. They allow 291.6 yards passing per game (30th in the NFL), a full 40 yards more than the Panthers.

[Shaking my own head] If the Patriots pass defense is truly THAT bad ... I would think that would be sheer blasphemy for a defensive minded coach like Bill Belichick.

Anyway, Hawkblogger also did a very nice job of diagramming a play from that Panther game that I'd completely forgotten about that really shows the continued improvement/maturity of Russell Wilson -- the Read Option. After he started talking about it, I remembered that particular play -- a heck of an effective misdirection play. In previous games, what's driven me a bit crazy is that Wilson had shown an apparent hesitancy to hit the downfield receiver (thinking the coverage was too tight for his liking), choosing instead to go with the safe check down option. On that play, Wilson sees Miller coming open on a shallow out ... but instead chooses to fire it down field to Baldwin -- a play that ended up netting 15 yards IIRC. It's a good read if anyone's interested.

The Seahawks Read Option

So we appear to be seeing Russell Wilson starting to become more confident in firing the ball down the field more. If what you say is true that Patrick Chung truly can't cover a dead mouse in a shoebox ... and the secondary as a whole is truly that inept ... that probably will embolden Wilson to take some shots down the field. This could very well be a breakout game for him -- especially since the Hawks are at home. We'll see though.
 
[Shaking my own head] If the Patriots pass defense is truly THAT bad ... I would think that would be sheer blasphemy for a defensive minded coach like Bill Belichick.

Just wanted to point out that while this secondary is not the greatest, that stat can also be misleading. The Patriots have gotten out to a big lead in a few games and then switch to a more vanilla don't let up the big play type defense that can lead to yards being given up in favor of quick points.
 
This is going to be a tough game for the Pats.

Currently the Seahawks are ranked #3 in run defense and #4 in pass defense. That being said, they have faced Arizona, Dallas, Green Bay, St. Louis and Carolina. And we all know they should have lost to Green Bay.. None of those teams have power-house offenses... It will be interesting to see how the Seahawks hold up against an offense as potent as the Pats. Denver, which also had a defense that was ranked in the top 10 in both pass and run defense, prior to meeting the Pats, saw their defense torn to shreds..

As for the Pats defense, they are relatively healthy and I think that they will be able to hold up well.. Seattle's offense has struggled to put up points this season. The only game they have broken the 20 point barrier was against Dallas.
 
This is going to be a tough game for the Pats.

Currently the Seahawks are ranked #3 in run defense and #4 in pass defense. That being said, they have faced Arizona, Dallas, Green Bay, St. Louis and Carolina. And we all know they should have lost to Green Bay.. None of those teams have power-house offenses... It will be interesting to see how the Seahawks hold up against an offense as potent as the Pats. Denver, which also had a defense that was ranked in the top 10 in both pass and run defense, prior to meeting the Pats, saw their defense torn to shreds..

As for the Pats defense, they are relatively healthy and I think that they will be able to hold up well.. Seattle's offense has struggled to put up points this season. The only game they have broken the 20 point barrier was against Dallas.

There are rumors that Pete may surprise and throw in Flynn in the game at any time,I would hope that the Pats are prepared for seeing possibly 2 different QBs in this game...Carroll has done crazy things before.
 
  • Last year, the Patriots were the worst in the NFL at giving up plays of 20 yards or more. So far this year, the Patriots are the worst in the NFL at giving up plays of 20 yards or more, having already allowed 27 of them in 5 games.
  • They're allowing opposition passers a QB rating of 96.3, which is the 11th worst in the NFL.
  • They allow an average of 7.7 yards per pass, which is good for 10th worst in the NFL.
  • They allow a completion percentage of 65.1, which is 8th worst in the NFL.
  • They are tied for second worst, with 12 TDs allowed.
  • They are tied for 19th in sacks

In short, the pass defense still sucks, although there seems to be some improvement when you use the eye test, and the front seven seems a lot stronger overall. If I were a Seahawks fan, I'd be pinning my hopes on a breakout passing game by young Mr. Wilson. Until the Patriots prove that they can slow down an opponent's passing attack, there's really no reason for teams to do anything else.

Thanks for the pessimism. We needed that. I realize the Pats secondary is still a work in progress. But this young Pats defense has spadesful more talent in the front 7 than last year and it helps.

Our safeties although still mediocre to bad are still less sucky than the combo of Ihedigbo and 'that guy we signed off the street'. What I'd like to see is for Tavon Wilson to step up his play. As for Chung, hopefully we can hide him somewhere where he can do less damage to our defense. Preferably keeping him in the box area.

So far what encourages me is that I see no reason to believe that Russell Wilson can lead his team to victory in a shootout. The Pats have a stout run D and have exactly the type of defenders up front who can severely limit if not shut down Lynch on the ground. Therefore, believe it or not our odds of winning go up when we make this a Brady vs Wilson shootout scenario.

Don't forget that the Pats run game should really help us out if we can establish it early and often.
 
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Thanks for the pessimism. We needed that. I realize the Pats secondary is still a work in progress. But this young Pats defense has spadesful more talent in the front 7 than last year and it helps.

There was no pessimism in there at all. I gave the stats, noted the pass defense still sucks (clearly seen by the stats), claimed an improvement overall and a significant improvement in the front seven. I'm trying to have an honest and unbiased discussion with Seahawks fans. If you want sunshine pumped up your ass, there are plenty of other posters around here who'll be more than happy to help you with that.

Our safeties although still mediocre to bad are still less sucky than the combo of Ihedigbo and 'that guy we signed off the street'. What I'd like to see is for Tavon Wilson to step up his play. As for Chung, hopefully we can hide him somewhere where he can do less damage to our defense. Preferably keeping him in the box area.

How is this really different from what I've posted

In short, the pass defense still sucks, although there seems to be some improvement when you use the eye test
?

Are you considering "less sucky" to be somehow hugely different from "still sucks... some improvement"?

So far what encourages me is that I see no reason to believe that Russell Wilson can lead his team to victory in a shootout. The Pats have a stout run D and have exactly the type of defenders up front who can severely limit if not shut down Lynch on the ground. Therefore, believe it or not our odds of winning go up when we make this a Brady vs Wilson shootout scenario.

It's not Brady v. Wilson that's being discussed in that post of mine. It's the Seahawks offense v. Patriots defense. The Patriots have a history of allowing rookie/suck QBs to light them up pretty good.

Don't forget that the Pats run game should really help us out if we can establish it early and often.

What does this have to do with my post?
 
Vegas has NE favored by only 3.5...so the teams are not all that far apart unfortunately.

I just think a young QB is more prone to TOs than a veteran like TB and aside from Lynch there is no one really in that Seattle offense that causes fear.

I agree with Deus, the Pats secondary continues to allow big plays on passing opportunities. It is so damn frustrating and I blame Chung for a good portion of them. This never happened when Harrison & Co. were back there. The pass rush seems to be better but its still not helping for some reason and lets face it NO ONE in our secondary scares the opposing QB...NO ONE!!!

:mad:
 
In defense of the defense it can't be ignored that this team finds away to get the ball back. They capitalize on mistakes forcing a lead leading 9 fumbles recovering 8, also tops. 6 interceptions puts them Tied for 8th as well. As crummy as the passing stats and 3rd down percentages are, the defense has come through in some tough spots with some timely turnovers. Not something to rely on every game but they seem to be consistent at giving our offense back the ball at least.
 
Seattle couldn't even get a legit win against Green Bay's offense which, despite all its praise, is pretty damn vanilla.

New England is going to be a nightmare for Seattle. It'll be somewhat of a tight game until into the 3rd quarter where the Patriots will put them away.
 
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