So what's your view of the reason behind all the passing yards?

BTTA · Sep 19, 2011

Across the league, and against our D. Here's are the reasons I've seen noted:

1. Defenses are behind the offenses because of the shortened camp time.

2. Offenses are getting better every year at taking advantage of the rules that limit what defenses can do off the line of scrimmage.

3. Receivers continue to get bigger AND more athletic at the same time, while DB's size and athletic capability isn't changing as rapidly.

4. The spread offense has been fully integrated with the no huddle, exhausting defenses through pacing and limited substitutions.

5. An era of really good QB's.

6. ??

I'm sure the answer is some combination of things, but what's your view of which ones and how they are weighted?

I'll say this - I've been watching pro football for forty years and am struck by how the highly athletic, improbable catch seems to happen routinely now. Guys are snagging balls a dozen times a game that used to be one-or-two a game highlights. What Edwards, and especially Jackson, have done in the past two weeks would happen across the league maybe twice a year.

patsfaninpittsburgh · Sep 19, 2011

betterthanthealternative said:
Across the league, and against our D. Here's are the reasons I've seen noted:

1. Defenses are behind the offenses because of the shortened camp time.

2. Offenses are getting better every year at taking advantage of the rules that limit what defenses can do off the line of scrimmage.

3. Receivers continue to get bigger AND more athletic at the same time, while DB's size and athletic capability isn't changing as rapidly.

4. The spread offense has been fully integrated with the no huddle, exhausting defenses through pacing and limited substitutions.

5. An era of really good QB's.

6. ??

I'm sure the answer is some combination of things, but what's your view of which ones and how they are weighted?

I'll say this - I've been watching pro football for forty years and am struck by how the highly athletic, improbable catch seems to happen routinely now. Guys are snagging balls a dozen times a game that used to be one-or-two a game highlights. What Edwards, and especially Jackson, have done in the past two weeks would happen across the league maybe twice a year.

It's a warped league fanbase.

Fantasy football and Madden have so deaded the football IQ that large sections of fanbases think useless yards are of primary importance.

Since football was invented, one thing matters. Sustaining and successfully completing offensive drives.

shmessy · Sep 19, 2011

patsfaninpittsburgh said:
It's a warped league fanbase.

Fantasy football and Madden have so deaded the football IQ that large sections of fanbases think useless yards are of primary importance.

Since football was invented, one thing matters. Sustaining and successfully completing offensive drives.

Okay, then, PFiP: The first two weeks of this NFL season HAS seen more 'sustained and successful completion of offensive drives'. Better?

Scoring under 30 points in a game is seen as a failure.

Forget the yardage, Ryan Freakin' Fitzpatrick is on pace for 56 TD's this year.

The OP brings up a very valid question.

BTTA · Sep 19, 2011

patsfaninpittsburgh said:
It's a warped league fanbase.

Fantasy football and Madden have so deaded the football IQ that large sections of fanbases think useless yards are of primary importance.

Since football was invented, one thing matters. Sustaining and successfully completing offensive drives.

Passing game success on the field is happening because of fan base attitude?!

BlitzFritz · Sep 19, 2011

I like the question. I like some of the possible answers.

Some observations:

1. The limitation on DBs is unbelievable. Did you see those two penalties on Bodden. WTF. You basically cant touch the guy on the 5.0000001 yard line.

2. These teams are STOCKED at receivers. Most teams have more weapons than the 49ers had with Rice, Taylor and Clark. The offensive talent is really weighted toward passing. I mean look at NEP roster with Branch, Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Ochocino, Taylor Price. Its mad.

3. Offensive sophistication? As I understand it now, you dont draw a play in the dirt anymore. Its all situational recognition and option based route trees based on what the defense does. If they cover you outside, run inside.

I will say it is CRAYZAY. And pretty entertaining. (and frustrating when our D cant stop em)

-- FRITZ

mgteich · Sep 19, 2011

Quarterbacks are much better now. The are more top quality quarterbacks, and the standard is much higher. A good quarterback must be able to throw to very small spot. Receiver and schemes are better, many teams basing their plays on reads of the opponents before the snap and after.

I think that, for awhile, the secondary had gotten ahead of the offense. So, the offensive voordinators and coaches have responded.

Also, there have many rules passed (and enforced) that favor the quarterback and the receiver. The no contact after 5 yards rule has resulted in lots more yardage (and points).

This is a passing league.

Finally, the inside run game simply isn't very effective if teams have decent defensive lines and schemes. The patriots FINALLY recognized the need to upgrade our defensive line.

The result for us is great. We have the top passer in the league, top coaches, a great OL, and lots of offensive toys for Brady. The result was last year's offense, and the start this year. Another version was 2007. I like this form better (much more disciplined).

borg · Sep 19, 2011

Triple combo reason
1A) Great O line play...in particular the tackle position. Think about all the high first rounder Ts coming into the league and performing. Extra time for a QB is lethal.

1B) Huge WRs. Secondaries have no answers for the jump balls that the 6'5" WRs all hauling in. Now all these giants have speed as well. These behemoths can compensate for shaky QB play

1C) The TE as a weapon. If a D fears the TE, this opens up the field for the entire offense. Look at yesterday....the Pats safeties hung on Gates whch allowed the giant WRS to dominate because of the speed and height. Jackson is a sick athlete.

patsfaninpittsburgh · Sep 19, 2011

shmessy said:
Okay, then, PFiP: The first two weeks of this NFL season HAS seen more 'sustained and successful completion of offensive drives'. Better?

Scoring under 30 points in a game is seen as a failure.

Forget the yardage, Ryan Freakin' Fitzpatrick is on pace for 56 TD's this year.

The OP brings up a very valid question.

shmessy

There are more yards because that's what the league wants.

Look at the San Diego drives. Everyone of their drives had some penalty in on with an assist. 10 years ago, I doubt Carter gets a 15 yarder.

Madden and fantasy football have fed the yards psyche.

DarrylS · Sep 19, 2011

BlitzFritz said:
I like the question. I like some of the possible answers.

Some observations:

1. The limitation on DBs is unbelievable. Did you see those two penalties on Bodden. WTF. You basically cant touch the guy on the 5.0000001 yard line.

2. These teams are STOCKED at receivers. Most teams have more weapons than the 49ers had with Rice, Taylor and Clark. The offensive talent is really weighted toward passing. I mean look at NEP roster with Branch, Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Ochocino, Taylor Price. Its mad.

3. Offensive sophistication? As I understand it now, you dont draw a play in the dirt anymore. Its all situational recognition and option based route trees based on what the defense does. If they cover you outside, run inside.

I will say it is CRAYZAY. And pretty entertaining. (and frustrating when our D cant stop em)

-- FRITZ

Yesterday for example, illustrates your point.. as good as McCourty is, he cannot single cover Vincent Jackson.. there was no help "over the top" as Gates et al tied up the Patriots Safeties.

This coupled with Dowling, Chung and Arrington going down all contributed.. the WR's are bigger and faster, and Gronk & Hernandez are the future of this position.

The Defense will take a while to make an adjustment to these changes, along with the stupid penalty calling...

shmessy · Sep 19, 2011

patsfaninpittsburgh said:
shmessy

There are more yards because that's what the league wants.

Look at the San Diego drives. Everyone of their drives had some penalty in on with an assist. 10 years ago, I doubt Carter gets a 15 yarder.

Madden and fantasy football have fed the yards psyche.

Your point was that the yards don't count if there isn't sustained and successful drives.

Well, there ARE more sustained and successful drives.

If QB's were regularly putting up 400+ yards per game and teams were scoring 15-17 points per game, you'd have a point.

PatsDeb · Sep 19, 2011

I choose all of the above.

The Scrizz · Sep 19, 2011

I think he is saying that yards don't matter, but people think they do.

I think if you did a statistical correlation between winning and losing, you'd find that the thing that matters most is points (

) followed by turnovers.

Yards is pretty far down the list.

As for the original question, every rule over the past decade or so has been to help the offense (particularly QB's and WR's). Add in more sophisticated game-plans, a lot of good QB's, big athletic WR's, some really good TE's and an increase in the number of passes thrown and this is what you get.

People are dumping on the Pats but look what they have done to 2 supposedly good defenses in the first 2 weeks.

Yesterday that SD D 'stopped' the Pats on 2 drives. 1 and a 1/2 of those it's hard to give SD any credit for. The 1/2 was Gronk putting the Pats into 2nd and 16 with a false start, inexcusable at home and a completely unforced error, just the Pats beating themselves. SD managed to get off the field on 3rd and 5 so you can call that a win for them, aided by a dumb penalty.

The other drive that I would give SD completely no credit for, was the 4th down stop. Brady on 3rd and 4 quick-snapped and missed a wide-open Welker. They had SD completely unprepared and just blew the play. That was followed up by Branch getting absolutely mugged on 4th down, an absolute embarrassing non-call by the refs.

They had exactly one 3 and out. And that's against what most would call a top-5 D. They have 4 3-and-outs in 2 weeks.

shmessy · Sep 19, 2011

The Scrizz said:
I think he is saying that yards don't matter, but people think they do.

I think if you did a statistical correlation between winning and losing, you'd find that the thing that matters most is points () followed by turnovers.

Yards is pretty far down the list.

As for the original question, every rule over the past decade or so has been to help the offense (particularly QB's and WR's). Add in more sophisticated game-plans, a lot of good QB's, big athletic WR's, some really good TE's and an increase in the number of passes thrown and this is what you get.

People are dumping on the Pats but look what they have done to 2 supposedly good defenses in the first 2 weeks.

Yesterday that SD D 'stopped' the Pats on 2 drives. 1 and a 1/2 of those it's hard to give SD any credit for. The 1/2 was Gronk putting the Pats into 2nd and 16 with a false start, inexcusable at home and a completely unforced error, just the Pats beating themselves. SD managed to get off the field on 3rd and 5 so you can call that a win for them, aided by a dumb penalty.

The other drive that I would give SD completely no credit for, was the 4th down stop. Brady on 3rd and 4 quick-snapped and missed a wide-open Welker. They had SD completely unprepared and just blew the play. That was followed up by Branch getting absolutely mugged on 4th down, an absolute embarrassing non-call by the refs.

They had exactly one 3 and out. And that's against what most would call a top-5 D. They have 4 3-and-outs in 2 weeks.

League-wide, SCORING is up also - - that's my point. It's not just meaningless yardage without points. Argue whether points is meaningless - - go ahead - - but the yardage IS resulting in higher point totals. And scoring at a greater year-to-year rate of growth than we've seen in at least 6 years:

2011 After 2 weeks = 23.52 +6.4%

2010 = 22.1 +3.3%
2009 = 21.4 -2.3%
2008 = 21.9 +0.9%
2007 = 21.7 +4.8%
2006 = 20.7 +0.5%
2005 = 20.6

So these 'meaningless' yards ARE resulting in more points. Now, a better discussion would be the relative cheapening of points over the years.

condon84 · Sep 19, 2011

shmessy said:
League-wide, SCORING is up also - - that's my point. It's not just meaningless yardage without points. Argue whether points is meaningless - - go ahead - - but the yardage IS resulting in higher point totals. And scoring at a greater year-to-year rate of growth than we've seen in at least 6 years:

2011 After 2 weeks = 23.52

2010 = 22.1
2009 = 21.4
2008 = 21.9
2007 = 21.7
2006 = 20.7
2005 = 20.6

Apparently, using some logic bestowed upon some posters in this thread, Kansas City needs to play Madden and fantasy football to take advantage of this league-wide phenomenon

shmessy · Sep 19, 2011

condon84 said:
Apparently, using some logic bestowed upon some posters in this thread, Kansas City needs to play Madden and fantasy football to take advantage of this league-wide phenomenon

LOL, touche!

Obviously, he was looking at isolated teams for his point, but the league-wide evidence is right there in black and white.

The game is evolving or devolving depending on one's point of view (personally, I don't love these changes). Whatever, offenses are becoming more prolific in the scoring department along with yardage. Not just one.

lightningbolt · Sep 19, 2011

The Scrizz said:
I think he is saying that yards don't matter, but people think they do.

I think if you did a statistical correlation between winning and losing, you'd find that the thing that matters most is points () followed by turnovers.

Yards is pretty far down the list.

As for the original question, every rule over the past decade or so has been to help the offense (particularly QB's and WR's). Add in more sophisticated game-plans, a lot of good QB's, big athletic WR's, some really good TE's and an increase in the number of passes thrown and this is what you get.

People are dumping on the Pats but look what they have done to 2 supposedly good defenses in the first 2 weeks.

Yesterday that SD D 'stopped' the Pats on 2 drives. 1 and a 1/2 of those it's hard to give SD any credit for. The 1/2 was Gronk putting the Pats into 2nd and 16 with a false start, inexcusable at home and a completely unforced error, just the Pats beating themselves. SD managed to get off the field on 3rd and 5 so you can call that a win for them, aided by a dumb penalty.

The other drive that I would give SD completely no credit for, was the 4th down stop. Brady on 3rd and 4 quick-snapped and missed a wide-open Welker. They had SD completely unprepared and just blew the play. That was followed up by Branch getting absolutely mugged on 4th down, an absolute embarrassing non-call by the refs.

They had exactly one 3 and out. And that's against what most would call a top-5 D. They have 4 3-and-outs in 2 weeks.

Brady didn't miss Welker on that pass. Go back and watch it. On the replay you'll see that Shawn Phillips slightly tipped the ball, causing it to go off target. Welker had to try and twist his body back around to catch it.

Lloyd_Christmas · Sep 19, 2011

Seems to me that WRs are still getting away with a lot of push offs while DBs are being watched very close for contact.

Calling Bodden for jamming Jackson past 5 yards? Not even sure it was, but he definitely released on the jam, maybe a fraction to late. Very ticky tacky call in my book.

The NFL wants passing offense to excite the fan base, Pats are adjusting.

patsfaninpittsburgh · Sep 19, 2011

shmessy said:
League-wide, SCORING is up also - - that's my point. It's not just meaningless yardage without points. Argue whether points is meaningless - - go ahead - - but the yardage IS resulting in higher point totals. And scoring at a greater year-to-year rate of growth than we've seen in at least 6 years:

2011 After 2 weeks = 23.52 +6.4%

2010 = 22.1 +3.3%
2009 = 21.4 -2.3%
2008 = 21.9 +0.9%
2007 = 21.7 +4.8%
2006 = 20.7 +0.5%
2005 = 20.6

So these 'meaningless' yards ARE resulting in more points. Now, a better discussion would be the relative cheapening of points over the years.

shmessy

Again, what's the title of the post?

Why are YARDS up?

Ofcourse, scoring is up. That's what the NFL wants. Throw in the protection stuff for good measure.

YARDS gets highlighted because of fantasy football and Madden. Look at nfl.com. Columnists devoted to fantasy football. The league also wants fantasy stats at the games.

JSn · Sep 19, 2011

Pretty much every game I've watched has featured some Sub-Par defenses. I blame the lack of OTA's playbook access. The number will decline.

aluminum seats · Sep 19, 2011

Lloyd_Christmas said:
Seems to me that WRs are still getting away with a lot of push offs while DBs are being watched very close for contact.

Calling Bodden for jamming Jackson past 5 yards? Not even sure it was, but he definitely released on the jam, maybe a fraction to late. Very ticky tacky call in my book.

The NFL wants passing offense to excite the fan base, Pats are adjusting.

This is the biggest reason by far. Yes, QBs and WRs are insanely talented, but defensive players are bigger/stronger/faster too. But if a DB essentially can't touch a receiver, and a pass takes about a thousandth of a second to get there, it's pretty tough to stop.

A pass rush helps. A lot.

So what's your view of the reason behind all the passing yards?

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