2010 NFL MVP Debate (merged several times)

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

The AP NFL MVP has been shared twice, in 1997 and 2003


2010: Brady and Vick ???

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Nikolai said:

I understand the support for Vick's MVP candidacy, but if Manning were in the same position as Brady in this race, Manning's victory would be sealed and delivered already.

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Didn't think of it like that. This is 100% spot on. I don't understand the ballwash-athon with Manning. Loveable loser I guess.

Years later the name Tom Brady will still be heard.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Better Record (Best in NFL) (+ Better Strength of Victory)
More Passing TDs (+ Total TDs)
More Passing Yards (+ Total Yards)
Less INTs (+ 120 more attempts)
Higher Completion %
More Yards
Higher QB Rating

Where the hell is Vick better?

Even in stats that Vick could have an advantage in due to playing less games (QB Rating, INTs, Completion %) he doesn't.

This argument is offensive.

Brady has the BEST STATS and is leading the team with the BEST RECORD in the NFL. Usually an argument for MVP is between two guys who only have one or the other, Brady has both.

Vick will have inferior stats for a team that will be playing on Wild Card weekend while Brady will have superior stats playing for the team with the best record in the NFL.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Disco Volante said:

Even in stats that Vick could have an advantage in due to playing less games (QB Rating, INTs, Completion %) he doesn't.
.

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A player is not in an advantageous position by playing less games for stats such as QB rating, completion %, TD/INT ratio.

Trying to think of an example here......god, umh.....

Tom Brady 2010. Check out his stats after 6 games. Then after 14.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

jbb9s said:

A player is not in an advantageous position by playing less games for stats such as QB rating, completion %, TD/INT ratio.

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I clearly said INTs, not TD/INT ratio. Someone who has less attempts has an advantage in terms of throwing interceptions. No idea why you put TD/INT ratio when it was never mentioned.

A higher completion percentage with more attempts is more impressive and more difficult to obtain than the completion percentage of someone with less attempts.

Someone going 7/10 is not as impressive/difficult as someone going 700/1000.

Trying to think of an example here......god, umh.....Tom Brady 2010. Check out his stats after 6 games. Then after 14.

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That's just a testament to how Brady has progressively gotten better this season.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Disco Volante said:

I clearly said INTs, not TD/INT ratio. Someone who has less attempts has an advantage in terms of throwing interceptions. No idea why you put TD/INT ratio when it was never mentioned.

A higher completion percentage with more attempts is more impressive and more difficult to obtain than the completion percentage of someone with less attempts.

Someone going 7/10 is not as impressive/difficult as someone going 700/1000.



That's just a testament to how Brady has progressively gotten better this season.

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Vick has actually gotten better this season too, unless you discount four 4th quarter comebacks in the last five weeks.

in regards to the statement at issue:

you said QB rating. you are wrong.

You said completion %. you are wrong again.

do whats right and redact those statements.

So you got me on the TD/INT. Congrads. Got me there.

I was wrong, see I feel a lot better about myself.

how to you get to 70% in 10 passes if you miss 4 of your first 6 passes? Right, you can't because you need a bigger data set. Its called regression to the mean.


you are probably a bit embarrassed because TB's QB rating after the Baltimore game and now we all know what it is. This directly contradicts your statement that playing less games is advantageous for the MVP award. Period.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

jbb9s said:

Vick has actually gotten better this season too, unless you discount four 4th quarter comebacks in the last five weeks.

in regards to the statement at issue:

you said QB rating. you are wrong.

You said completion %. you are wrong again.

do whats right and redact those statements.

So you got me on the TD/INT. Congrads. Got me there.

I was wrong, see I feel a lot better about myself.

how to you get to 70% in 10 passes if you miss 4 of your first 6 passes? Right, you can't because you need a bigger data set. Its called regression to the mean.


you are probably a bit embarrassed because TB's QB rating after the Baltimore game and now we all know what it is. This directly contradicts your statement that playing less games is advantageous for the MVP award. Period.

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You post like a sarcastic little teenage girl and are wrong. Stop posting, your little teenage girl style is embarrassing. "Feeling better about self? Embarrassed?" It's like I'm reading a little girls Facebook wall, not a football message board.

Especially with actually typing ".....god, umh....." it's like I was reading a post by...



And to make you even more annoying you said "Congrads". :bricks:

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Recapping every imagined argument you'e created.

"TD/INT Ratio"

Never mentioned TD/INT ratio. You brought that up yourself.

"Vick has actually gotten better this season too"

No one said he didn't. This is the second thing you've brought up yourself.

This directly contradicts your statement that playing less games is advantageous for the MVP award.

No one said that. This is the third thing you've brought up yourself.

As PP mentioned, your posting style is very immature. Maybe more tolerable if you were actually responding to things I've said instead making up arguments that never existed.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

robertweathers said:

Vick has a great shot. Look at the big picture.

Statistically, he'll have played in 13 games. He'll have over 3k yds passing, over 20 Tds throwing and a Qb rating of over 100. He'll also have ran for 700 yds with 8-10 rushing TDs.

He'll also have on his resume some pretty incredible comeback wins for a 11-12 win team.

By any measure, that is an MVP worthy season.

With that said, Brady deserves it more.

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Alright lets look at the weapons vick has to work with...desean Jackson (best offensive weapon in nfl arguably....can do everything), Jeremy maclin (awesome WR)....L McCoy....is a double threat and is incredible Brent Celek TE....good in RZ and can move chains....

Brady has had 2 rookie TE's, brandon Tate (unimpressive/inconsistent), branch (who always plays well with Brady but was on downside of career....woodhead off scrap heap (he is awesome...we all know that now), welker coming back from serious acl repair and not initially as effective because of coming back from inj and having NO deep threat to open things up 4 him.:.and then who else? Edelman?....nope. BJGE great out of backfield this yr but not much of a threat in receiving. WHAT Tom Brady has done this yr with THIS offensive lineup has been EXTRAORDINARY!......

Brady should win hands down.....but I doubt he will because of media's love affair with the dog killer/torturer's story that they keep pushing down our throats....I doubt Brady gives a crap anyways...

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

jbb9s said:

Vick has actually gotten better this season too, unless you discount four 4th quarter comebacks in the last five weeks.

This directly contradicts your statement that playing less games is advantageous for the MVP award. Period.

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So by your conclusion, because TB12 starts out strong and finishes strong is a "strike" against him because Vick started out sub-average to average, but finished stronger and finds himself having to pull off comebacks is why he should get the nod. That's absurd. If they both had identical stats and identical records and placed them side by side I still believe TB wins the MVP. Vick is getting mentioned because he is the "sexy" choice right now, but when they have time to go over the course of a season and perform a "gut check" TB wins this award running away.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Sivy said:

I dont forgive vick..I dont care what people say. He is a pile of poop and if you watch his interviews today, you can tell just by looking at him that he feels no remorse for what he did. i dont care about this "paying debt" crap..if he molested a child and then some how got out, no one NO ONE would forgive him..and I know some people will say that a dog is not a child, but if he came personally to your house and killed your dog, I dont think you'd be on vicks we we at all...I honestly hope that man fails in life. I want nothing but the worst for him. If the does make it to the superbowl and plays the pats, it will be great because BB will design a plan that will shut him down so fast it wont be even be funny..and hopefully as soon as he steps on the field he some one lays him out of the nfl for good.

MVP? **** that.

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I agree with you. Who are we to put value against one life versus another? Taking a life is an abomination regardless of whether it is animal or human. Someone that can coldly look that creature in the eye and then be the cruel cause of its untimely death doesn't deserve this treatment. Trouble is, I'm sure this sells newspapers and in the end, isn't that the only criterium for this award?

p.s. yes I love my dogs. so sue me.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

MVP hasn't won the Super Bowl since 1999

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

weswelker#83 said:

MVP hasn't won the Super Bowl since 1999

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I'm not too worried about that little bit of info.

There was one stat that freaked me out. No team has won the SB with a QB that led the NFL in passing yardage. I'm off this week so I have the time to validate.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Schnefer just on sportscenter saying that Vick has been the MVP for weeks because of how "exciting" he is. Said you can't discount Brady but it sounded like he was just saying that because he had to, not because he believed it.

There are a number of things at stake here:

- People who hate Brady/Pats and due to the fact that there is even another possible candidate, will vote for Vick just to make sure Brady doesn't get it.

- Any black voter is probably going to vote for Vick in an "us against them" battle.

- A lot of level headed voters might split the vote.

- Brady is having arguably the 3rd best year ever by a quarterback (Him in 07, Forrest Gump in 04.)

- If this were Manning/Gump having Brady's year...Vick wouldn't even be in the discussion.

- There's that "underdog" story for Vick.

But anyone without bias and looking clearly at stats, team record, the better player (not the more "exciting" player)...would vote for Brady.

If Brady throws for 7 or 8 TDs 0/1/2 INT these last two games...and Vick either has "just ok" performances or he sh*ts the bed...I wonder if the Vick ballwashers will still be on his bandwagon.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Haley said:

Taking a life is an abomination regardless of whether it is animal or human.

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Well, I know Brady enjoys a good steak, so I guess he shouldn't win MVP either.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

aluminum seats said:

Well, I know Brady enjoys a good steak, so I guess he shouldn't win MVP either.

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I hope you're only making this comparison in jest - or making a joke on those that have made this ludicrous comparison. Obviously torturing and killing animals for sport is not at all comparable to simply being a carnivore.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

BradyManny said:

I hope you're only making this comparison in jest - or making a joke on those that have made this ludicrous comparison. Obviously torturing and killing animals for sport is not at all comparable to simply being a carnivore.

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I think what Vick did was abhorrent. I also think equating a dog's life with a human life is abhorrent.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

aluminum seats said:

Well, I know Brady enjoys a good steak, so I guess he shouldn't win MVP either.

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This is one of the dumbest post I've ever saw on this board.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Sivy said:

I dont forgive vick.\

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With all due respect (and I do understand your sentiment here), it is not your place to forgive (or not forgive) Vick. He abused and killed dogs. He did not wrong you in any way (that I know of). If a guy committed armed robbery in Alaska, is it your place to forgive him? The logic is the same.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else on this board has the "right" to grant forgiveness to, or withhold forgiveness from, someone who has committed a crime against *someone else* (not you or me).

It may seem like picking nits, but I actually think it's an important point.

Re: Vick Stirs Debate in the M.V.P. Vote

Sivy said:

This is one of the dumbest post I've ever saw on this board.

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One of the dumbest post? Really? Hmmmm....I'd say that "...and I know some people will say that a dog is not a child" would take that prize. But that's just me.