Is Michael Johnson an underrated DE in this draft?

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

I have read this on many draft sites that he could actually going be the best DE coming out of this draft, but have not seen this athlete play since Georgia Tech does not get alot of coverage in my area

Is he worthy of this praise that I have seen as a prospective DE and should the Patriots have him on radar at #34 or maybe #23?

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PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

I have read this on many draft sites that he could actually going be the best DE coming out of this draft, but have not seen this athlete play since Georgia Tech does not get alot of coverage in my area

Is he worthy of this praise that I have seen as a prospective DE and should the Patriots have him on radar at #34 or maybe #23?

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tjones7 said:

The biggest issue, IMO, with Johnson is the part in bold in your intial question, he is more athlete than football player at this point.

He actually is quite similar to Conner Barwin, a super-athletic player, limited experience, converted from TE, unlike most other DE/OLBs in this class they both have some albeit limited experience dropping back into coverage, and trouble setting the edge.

IMO at the very least he comes in as a 3-down pass rusher, immediately helps on ST (was occasionally a gunner for GT, just shows you how much of a freak he is, blocked 3 FGs)

With all that said I wouldn't draft him (or Barwin) before #47

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Box_O_Rocks said:

There are similarities in both being athletic and both being former Tight Ends, comparison of the two beyond that is a failure of analysis. One of them is noted for working his tail off and trying hard to improve his game, the other carries the brand of an underachiever who makes no effort to play the run and doesn't show much, if any, passion to play.

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mcsully said:

michael johnson is this years vernon gholston

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tjones7 said:

Simply copying and helping to proliferate a general assumption (lack of passion, effort) about a particular player is a failure of analysis.

Unless, you either played with/coached/interviewed him and those around the guy how could you possible determine if he was trying?

Paul Johnson has been quoted as saying he is "a hard worker who plays with a great motor..."
Rivals.com College Football - NFL scouts aware of Johnson's skills

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Box_O_Rocks said:

Golly geewillickers, who ever heard of a college Head Coach who has to recruit players to his program telling people his top draft eligible former player was the cat's whiskers as a football player? A stunning development. Does it help my cause if I at least note that I watched both of these prospects play in actual games last fall and used that to validate my reading? Does the absence of one of those two players from the compiled NE interest list rate any consideration? NE had two of his former teammates on the roster to finish the 2008 season, they must have had a good look at him, yet there's been no apparent interest...

If you wish to downgrade Barwin for his inexperience on defense, that's valid, but lumping him with another former TE who is a good athlete is like drawing parallels between Roseanne Barr and Daryl Hannah because they're both women and actresses.

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PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Are we going to continue with this stupidity of calling Gholston a bust based on his rookie season because he was a Jet and because Mayo turned out good for us?. - Who says Gholston won't turn it around under Ryan and do any of you know if Mayo won't struggle in his sophomore year?

Maroney sucked in his rookie season while the lower #1 draft pick Addai played a big role in the Colts winning the SB that season yet you clowns still say give Maroney hope 4 years later?.

Some of you guys need to get real - If Gholston had the season in NE that he had in NY last year,a few of you clowns would have said 'give him 3 years',but he is not a Patriot so after 1 season he is a bum


Now back to the original thought of this thread ...

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Box_O_Rocks said:

If you wish to downgrade Barwin for his inexperience on defense, that's valid, but lumping him with another former TE who is a good athlete is like drawing parallels between Roseanne Barr and Daryl Hannah because they're both women and actresses.

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TriplecHamp said:

MJ is a better athlete for his size compared to Barwin IMO, dont get me wrong they are both great athletes but the other guy is right. Johnson didnt not try against the run he just wasnt very good at it. Johnson has just as much passion for the game as anyone. Comparing MJ and Barwin is fine because they are both projected to play the same position for us and both are seen as possible late first to mid second round picks. If any team can get the most out of MJ it is us.

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PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Are you sure about this?,looks like she could be either if you look at her at different views .. sort of like Divine

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Box_O_Rocks said:

Golly geewillickers, who ever heard of a college Head Coach who has to recruit players to his program telling people his top draft eligible former player was the cat's whiskers as a football player? A stunning development. Does it help my cause if I at least note that I watched both of these prospects play in actual games last fall and used that to validate my reading? Does the absence of one of those two players from the compiled NE interest list rate any consideration? NE had two of his former teammates on the roster to finish the 2008 season, they must have had a good look at him, yet there's been no apparent interest...

If you wish to downgrade Barwin for his inexperience on defense, that's valid, but lumping him with another former TE who is a good athlete is like drawing parallels between Roseanne Barr and Daryl Hannah because they're both women and actresses.

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tjones7 said:

You are absolutely correct, I shouldn't trust the guy who coached MJ, I should trust a guy who watched perhaps 1-2% of his game tape.

As far as "apparent interest" goes, from my somewhat foggy memory wasn't Mayo the only player drafted by BB in the last few years to be brought in for a work-out...I believe there is a thread lying around here concerning this. Also because of their were two former players on the team just as easily sway the Pats opinion the other way? If they are willing to dismiss a player based on the opinion of Guyton, and Robertson, then logic dictates that Guyton could inform them of how great he was and take that into consideration.

I actually got quite a kick out of imagining Rosanne Barr as Pris in Blade Runner.

I'm still sticking by the comparison, you cant deny that aside from very similar measurables they play well in space, they have trouble against the run, they both are ST demons and they are accomplished sack artists.

I have nothing against Barwin, I just consider him similar to MJ.

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Box_O_Rocks said:

Surely Roseanne would have played Rutger Hauer's part?

I've read where some here like to claim Barwin has trouble against the run, but what I saw on TV and about half the draftnik site profiles disagree with that assessment (check out Nut's Top 300 thread and look at the clip Yahoo has on Barwin - it's from the South Florida game and there's not one sack or QBH to be seen, but some pretty good read, react, tackle the RB plays).

Johnson was clearly poor against the run, and when NFL Draft Scout says "Washed out when blockers (even smaller tight ends) get into his pads; his height is a detriment in these situations. Tendency to stand around instead of chasing plays." about Johnson, it was right there on TV to see - a pity because he looked very good in coverage against RBs in the flat. With his pass rush and advanced coverage skill, plus his four years of playing time, he should have been the #1 3-4 OLB prospect in this draft and a sure top 15 pick, as it is someone is going to take a chance on him being the next Julius Peppers and people will fall in love with his sack numbers and wonder why his team never wins championships. It's also telling that the kid Johnson couldn't beat out for a starter's job, never made it to the NFL, he did hurt his knee at the end of last season and was unable to workout, but we know a lot of kids still get drafted anyway, the guy playing on the other side was cut by Dallas, cut by Edmonton, recently waived by NE and signed by KC - if guys on the fringe of the NFL are starting ahead of him at Georgia Tech, shouldn't Johnson have been able to get on the field more?

As for drafting players brought into Gillette for visits: Mayo, Wheatley, and Crable all visited last year. I think it's in the predraft visit list thread, but as far as we know all of the #1 picks have visited Gillette prior to being drafted - Meriweather, Maroney, and Mankins for sure. I have a memory of previous discussions where Warren was also reported as a visit and I believe Watson was too. If you are going to use a high pick, it makes sense to take a hard look with as many of the staff as possible. I'm not big on the smokescreen theory, that time is too valuable when you are about to spend millions on a kid.

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PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Are we going to continue with this stupidity of calling Gholston a bust based on his rookie season because he was a Jet and because Mayo turned out good for us?. - Who says Gholston won't turn it around under Ryan and do any of you know if Mayo won't struggle in his sophomore year?

Maroney sucked in his rookie season while the lower #1 draft pick Addai played a big role in the Colts winning the SB that season yet you clowns still say give Maroney hope 4 years later?.

Some of you guys need to get real - If Gholston had the season in NE that he had in NY last year,a few of you clowns would have said 'give him 3 years',but he is not a Patriot so after 1 season he is a bum


Now back to the original thought of this thread ...

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klinefan said:

Is it possible he just needs better coaching?

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