Misinformation about ACL tears on this board

If the injury is that severe, why wait until tomorrow to do an MRI? I also thought they had those portable MRI units in the trainers rooms in the locker room? Could an MRI have already been performed and we just don't know about it yet?

Probably after the swelling subside, can see better?

I saw the ESPN picture and it looks severe, much more so that Carson Palmer's injury a few years back. Here's hoping its just the ACL and not worse (ie..MCL tear, etc)

I am an M.D. although not an orthopaedist. It's pretty clear that Brady got hit on the outside of his leg bending it inward. The most likely thing would be an MCL injury with that type of hit. However, as somebody mentioned before, there is something called the "unhappy triad" that involves a tear of the MCL, ACL, and meniscus. You can get this from a hit from the outside. However, in that situation wtih 2 torn ligaments and a meniscus, he probably would have been carted off the field.

Here's hoping, although the past three teams to win the Super Bowl sure weren't powerhouses, so I wouldn't count out Chris Simms surrounded by this all-star cast just yet.

My own personal perspective:

I tore an ACL, and had it reconstructed.
A couple years later, I tore the reconstruction.
Each time, I wanted to both vomit in my helmet and piss down my leg. The pain was unbelievably excruciating. There was no friggin way I could have borne ANY weight on that leg.

Tom didn't seem to be in that level of pain, for what it's worth. . . . .

DeROK said:

I am an M.D. although not an orthopaedist. It's pretty clear that Brady got hit on the outside of his leg bending it inward. The most likely thing would be an MCL injury with that type of hit. However, as somebody mentioned before, there is something called the "unhappy triad" that involves a tear of the MCL, ACL, and meniscus. You can get this from a hit from the outside. However, in that situation wtih 2 torn ligaments and a meniscus, he probably would have been carted off the field.

Here's hoping, although the past three teams to win the Super Bowl sure weren't powerhouses, so I wouldn't count out Chris Simms surrounded by this all-star cast just yet.

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buddy rabbit said:

My own personal perspective:

I tore an ACL, and had it reconstructed.
A couple years later, I tore the reconstruction.
Each time, I wanted to both vomit in my helmet and piss down my leg. The pain was unbelievably excruciating. There was no friggin way I could have borne ANY weight on that leg.

Tom didn't seem to be in that level of pain, for what it's worth. . . . .

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My wife had the "unhappy triad" injury too, after falling from a horse. I agree with the above post. ZERO weight baring after that so no way he walks off under that kinda injury. That said. It didn't look good.

DaBruinz said:

1) ......

2b) If Tom had an ACL tear, I am fairly certain he wouldn't have been grabbing his tibia unless he tore it off the bone. But, then you are talking about a severe amount of pain. An amount that probably would have kept him from walking. Brady's hands were almost a full hand-span down his leg from his knee. This leads me to believe its more likely a bone bruise. But, again, anything is possible. .....

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As I mentioned in another thread, the trainer I was sitting with said holding
sometimes a person holds below the knee to prevent the weight of the leg
pulling down on the tear which is causing pain.

DaBruinz said:

EMoney - What you describe is almost exactly what happened to me when I tore my ACL. I was running full speed while playing Dek Hockey and I cut to my left, planting all my weight on my right leg. My knee buckled inwards under my weight and, as I fell, my leg flopped around to the point where the bottom of my foot was almost at eye level (picture Joe Theismann's leg, but at the knee). It was the equivalent of someone hitting my knee from the outside and causing it to buckle inwards. Not pleasant and it resulted in a partially torn meniscus as well.

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ow. 10char

JR4 said:

As I mentioned in another thread, the trainer I was sitting with said holding
sometimes a person holds below the knee to prevent the weight of the leg
pulling down on the tear which is causing pain.

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but how would that work in this case? Wouldn't trying to walk on that leg--if it were causing so much pain just from its sheer weight--be utter agony?

Not really sure but once he was standing the earth pushing back and
maybe the angle of pulling was different.... don't know ... but this guy
has seen a lot of these injuries.

buddy rabbit said:

My own personal perspective:

I tore an ACL, and had it reconstructed.
A couple years later, I tore the reconstruction.
Each time, I wanted to both vomit in my helmet and piss down my leg. The pain was unbelievably excruciating. There was no friggin way I could have borne ANY weight on that leg.

Tom didn't seem to be in that level of pain, for what it's worth. . . . .

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...and Tiger Woods played with a torn ACL. It really depends on the individual and how much collateral damage there is.

fumbrunner said:

...and Tiger Woods played with a torn ACL. It really depends on the individual and how much collateral damage there is.

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Its my understanding that Woods ACL was not a complete tear. But, as I said, Bobby Shaw played without ANY ACLs in both knees.

It all depends on the severity and any collateral damage.

DaBruinz said:

Its my understanding that Woods ACL was not a complete tear. But, as I said, Bobby Shaw played without ANY ACLs in both knees.

It all depends on the severity and any collateral damage.

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Don't forget the Patriots' own Jimmy Hitchçock either. He wasn't too shabby [thanks for jogging my memory, BTW]

ctpatsfan77 said:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how would that work in this case? Wouldn't trying to walk on that leg--if it were causing so much pain just from its sheer weight--be utter agony?

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Not if you are super-human like Tom.

I had a complete ACL tear, and the doctors told me what it was without an MRI. Now, I'm not a doctor, but I was delivered by one, and this does not look good.

I've been walking around with zero ACL's since 1992. I absolutely disagree with the anatomy book which says knee should be immobilized in case of suspected ACL tear. The ACL (and PCL) does not add strength to the knee - it stabilizes it from sliding back and forth like a drawer. And it only is needed to perform this function at full extension and full flexion.

My history: two triple knee injuries, one to each knee. Not the triad mentioned in this thread, but the other one: torn ACL and bilateral meniscus tear. Two surgeries - both to repair meniscus and to clean up, NOT repair, ACL. My orthopod said not everyone needs ACLs - he said my knees were tight enough that I would likely be OK without if I was careful to avoid sudden "cutting" starts and stops. He turned out to be right. I had a third surgery about ten years after the second to clean up some additional minor meniscus tear.

As I posted yesterday, from the angle of the pressure on the knee (or at least insofar as could be seen from the TV angles and with all the intervening bodies in the way) my first guess would be MCL. I have not had MCL injuries but have heard they usually don't require surgery. But of course it could be that the ACL was also injured, or the menisci.

We'll see what happens. There are a lot of unsubstantiated reports flying around right now - I am going to wait for some hard and reliable facts before I draw any conclusions.

emoney_33 said:

Isn't it extremely unlikely to tear your ACL getting hit on the outside of your knee? Doesn't there need to be force on the back of your knee (pushing the knee back)? I would think to tear by being hit in the side of the knee it would have to look a lot worse than it did (tearing the MCL first)?

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I was hit on the side of the knee on my plant leg and tore my ACL and my meniscus. The impact on my knee was much greater than what I saw yesterday, and I was on the ground a good five mintues writhing in pain following the impact.

Back then, the advant of MRI technology wasn't widely available so a series of range of motion tests and X-ray tests were inconclusive. The trainer followed by the college doc said I had a sprain so after two to three weeks of ice packs and hot tub sessions and a ridiculouly cumbersome brace, I was back playing. The knee kept bucking everytime I made sharp cuts so I just learned to compensate a bit. But even then, it still buckled often, swelled up and ice packs, the whirlpool tub and aspirin were half of my life.

During summer vacation, I finally had it scoped at my hometown and the orthopedist found the ACL had totally disintegrated.

It is possible to play at a fair level without an ACL and with some cartilege damage. But if Brady's injury is that severe, it's really pointless to play through it. He needs to just get it repaired and the sooner the better. Arthritis in the knee I blew out is something I'm going to have to live with. As I become older, it's getting crankier and harder to deal with. This is something I do not want Brady or anyone else to cope with.

fumbrunner said:

I saw the ESPN picture and it looks severe, much more so that Carson Palmer's injury a few years back. Here's hoping its just the ACL and not worse (ie..MCL tear, etc)

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Dude. I really didn't want to see that. It looks freaking horrible. Crap crap crap. Poor Tommy.

neuronet said:

Dude. I really didn't want to see that. It looks freaking horrible. Crap crap crap. Poor Tommy.

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Yeah that sucks. I was holding out hope, but he is done.

Also, based on that pic, I can see how people think it was dirty, but that is a snapshot nanosecond of what happened. No way it could have been prevented by the defensive player, barring not even attempting to touch the QB.

Brady's left leg hurts after it was grabbed. It tells me that Tom had a problem with his left leg before the game started. There is no way you will scream if somebody hold your healthy left leg.

The reason Tom screamed because the safety was pressing a 'hot 'spot on his left leg which he should not touch.

Tom will be back in the next 4 weeks.