The "Brady did a little bit wrong" crowd

[Fencer]

One school of thought at this point can be summarized as:

• The NFL's actions were ridiculous from beginning to end.
• However, Brady's probably guilty of SOMETHING minor.

That's not necessarily crazy, since a certain level of cheating is endemic in football and other sports.

• Like other sports with concepts of fouls and penalties from contact during continuous play, football has a strong element of "Get away with whatever you can".
• In football, teams engage in injury-report shenanigans all the time. The Patriots are among the ringleaders.
• Football and many other sports have long legacies of PED violations.
• In sports where equipment violations are helpful, there commonly are long histories of equipment violations. For extreme example, consider NASCAR and Americas Cup yachting, which not coincidentally are among the sports with the most complex equipment overall. Football has such a history.
• When the rules are vague and poorly enforced, it's natural to try to push their boundaries.

If Brady's first PSIgate-related interview is to be taken a face value, he was saying "We may have pushed the envelope, but I don't think we broke the rules. Certainly I didn't think I was pushing for a rules violation. I hope I'm right in my beliefs." My personal theory is to take that exactly at face value.

But people who think Brady is a LITTLE BIT dirtier than that aren't necessarily being idiots. So I think it's OK to take note of people who have views approximately along these lines.

For starters, Steve Buckley is now in that camp, and whatever negative things I thought about his previous views, his current ones don't make me want to vomit, although I don't like that he still assumes the footballs were illicitly deflated.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...ey_obsessed_nfl_bigger_culprit_than_tom_brady

I still say Brady “did it,” even if I’m a little vague as to what, exactly, he did.

No, he didn’t let the air out of the footballs. But whether it was via text, email, snail mail, telegram, telephone, smoke signals or a wink and a nod, Brady was “generally aware” of what was going on.

And I believe he should be fined $50 and forced to spend a Saturday morning at Safe Quarterbacking School down at the local high school.

... I'm starting to hear, off in the distance, the faint baying of hounds from the NFL’s witch hunt. And I can see the torches.

Why the National Football League is so obsessed with this case remains Mystery Science Fiction Theater. That’s why the urbandictionary.com phraseology works so well: Roger Goodell and his crew are going after Brady for “reasons that are not necessarily tangible.”

Maybe they’re just nuts. Everything is in play these days.

Edit: Similarly Chris Gasper -- https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...ot-possible/ZXpVFrWioaya9jOCw4pT0N/story.html -- who thinks Goodell is totally in the wrong, but Brady should take a 1-game suspension anyway just to get things over with, and by the way Brady's stories about why he didn't turn over his phone aren't wholly consistent.

 

[PATS16N0]

It's them retreating. The same people were earlier saying he belonged in jail for ordering code reds.
Now it's "the NFL looks horrible but maybe, probably, Tom did something sometime."

These people have no credibility. Deflatehate is the best thing that ever happened to the Patriots. It exonerated us of Crygate and Framegate and now all future scandals will be laughed at as yet another sad attempt to bring us down.

Maybe Touchdown Tom will get credited for bringing down the evil Roger Goodell before its all over.

Another notch on his legacy belt

 

[Fencer]

One reason for the school of thought that I'm citing here is that Brady was indeed more evasive than he needed to be at some points in his testimony.

Now, from BB down, the Patriots aren't exactly forthcoming, so I don't necessarily take this as a sign of guilt. And I know in other areas of life people are always spinning too, including politics and the public-facing side of business/marketing. But again -- I don't necessarily vomit in reaction to those who get the feeling Brady actually has a little something to hide.

 

[eom]

no offense, but this is absolutely ****ing ******ed

I still say Brady “did it,” even if I’m a little vague as to what, exactly, he did.

No, he didn’t let the air out of the footballs. But whether it was via text, email, snail mail, telegram, telephone, smoke signals or a wink and a nod, Brady was “generally aware” of what was going on

WTF WAS GOING ON?

 

[Fencer]

Maybe Touchdown Tom will get credited for bringing down the evil Roger Goodell before its all over.

Another notch on his legacy belt

I'm actually getting more hopeful about that, now that the press have noticed Goodell's major lie about Brady's Jastremski-related testimony. A CENTRAL part of Goodell's reasoning for his actions is an obvious, egregious lie.

Given that, some folks are also giving more weight to, among others:

• The confirmed Gardi lie.
• The highly likely leak-to-Mort lies.
• The "Sure; let's play half the AFCC with what we believe to be illegal footballs" sting.

 

[Fencer]

no offense, but this is absolutely ****ing ******ed

WTF WAS GOING ON?

I won't give Buckley credit for having thought it through this far, but I personally think that the famous "vigorous rubbing" might have had the side effect of letting the Pats play with footballs a few tenths of a PSI below what the rules attempt to enforce.

 

[Fencer]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._transcripts_paint_ted_wells_roger_goodell_in

Jeff Howe blisters Goodell and the NFL for their lies. However, he also inserts the comments:

To be fair, this investigation might have been spared of its Threat Level Midnight status if ball boy Jim McNally didn’t continuously change his story about why he disappeared into the bathroom with a sack of game balls.

Point is, everyone’s credibility should be called into question with the Deflategate saga, as the leading characters all appear more disingenuous by the day.

 

[eom]

I won't give Buckley credit for having thought it through this far, but I personally think that the famous "vigorous rubbing" might have had the side effect of letting the Pats play with footballs a few tenths of a PSI below what the rules attempt to enforce.

WTF CARES??

 

[Fencer]

WTF CARES??

People who are curious about what actually happened.
People who want to understand why some of the good guys sound a bit evasive.
People who like using their brains.

I.e., people unlike yourself.

 

[VectorPrime]

The goal posts keep moving.

 

[eom]

I won't give Buckley credit for having thought it through this far, but I personally think that the famous "vigorous rubbing" might have had the side effect of letting the Pats play with footballs a few tenths of a PSI below what the rules attempt to enforce.

dude, I want you to spell this out for me cuz I feel like I fell asleep and woke up 6 months ago ---- DO you believe refs routinely measure psi of footballs before every game?

and my follow up would be, do you not ****ing understand that the ball loses 'a few tenths of a psi'; 5 min after it leaves the ****ing building??

 

[eom]

ohhhh ok, waitaminute.....I don't follow everybody's name and all that --- is this guy one of those resident board troll types?
cuz you got me

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

People who are curious about what actually happened.
People who want to understand why some of the good guys sound a bit evasive.
People who like using their brains.

I.e., people unlike yourself.

Hypothetically speaking do you think Brady would put his trust in a part time employee he didn't know by name to deflate footballs in a bath room ?

 

[BobDigital]

Here is my honest thoughts.

I think Brady and the Patriots probably (over 50%) did a little something. I think after the Jets game they decided they can't leave the balls up to the officials anymore and would need to take matters into their own hands a little.

I don't think Brady wanted it below or at a certain PSI. Probably just something like "if it feels too inflated take a little air out". And Brady likes it on the low side anyway so I am sure they would air on the side of caution trying to get the balls the way Brady likes them. Also I think a lot of QBs do this as do other teams.

I equate it to a pitcher getting a bit of pine tar on a ball and think this should be looked at the same way which is that it is really not a big deal. Actually Pine tar is a bigger deal cause we know for a fact it helps pitchers in general and it is a measurable thing. There is no proof letting the air out of the balls a little helped Brady. In fact it is my personal opinion he plays better with the regulated ball cause it does not hang in the air as much and allows him to attack deeper down the field better.

Another difference is with pine tar you check the pitcher and check the ball instantly and can prove there is pine tar on their person and on the ball. It is hard to prove air was tampered with in a ball unless the gain or loss of air is so huge from last measurement (taking weather conditions into account) that there is no other explanation or you just plain caught them in the act. Neither of these things are true.

I think the set fine of 25K was the appropriate punishment for Brady though his guilt is not sure. I doubt that would have been appealed. No investigation by Wells should have ever taken place.

It should have been announced in the same week as other punishments

Falcons - fine & low pick docked for pumping in noise
Patriots - fine & low pick docked for equipment violations and tampering
Jets - fine & low pick docked for tampering with players
Browns - fine & low pick docked for sending information illegally

They should all be comparable with about between 25k-100K fine and a 7th-5th round pick.

 

[Fencer]

Hypothetically speaking do you think Brady would put his trust in a part time employee he didn't know by name to deflate footballs in a bath room ?

Not in the least. If Jastremski had McNally doing stuff like that, it was on his own say-so. I'd further note:

• There is no evidence Jastremski had McNally doing stuff like that.
• There is no evident motive for Jastremski to have had McNally doing stuff like that.
• The Wells report says that, if McNally did it, it's the first time ever anybody deflated footballs in a bathroom like that.
  
• The Wells report does not go on to suggest alternative ways McNally could have done something similar at other home games.
  
• The Wells report certainly does not suggest how McNally could have done something similar at road games that he doesn't even attend.

 

[Wax Frog]

...

...

 

[Fencer]

dude, I want you to spell this out for me cuz I feel like I fell asleep and woke up 6 months ago ---- DO you believe refs routinely measure psi of footballs before every game?

and my follow up would be, do you not ****ing understand that the ball loses 'a few tenths of a psi'; 5 min after it leaves the ****ing building??

None of that has anything to do with my posts.

Are you drunk? I don't recall you being quite this moronic in your other posts.

 

[VectorPrime]

Baseball pitchers who get caught using pine tar, which does give a measurable advantage, only ever get ejected, laughed at on the news for a day, and then pop up back in the rotation 5 days later.

 

[SVN]

It's them retreating. The same people were earlier saying he belonged in jail for ordering code reds.
Now it's "the NFL looks horrible but maybe, probably, Tom did something sometime."

These people have no credibility. Deflatehate is the best thing that ever happened to the Patriots. It exonerated us of Crygate and Framegate and now all future scandals will be laughed at as yet another sad attempt to bring us down.

Maybe Touchdown Tom will get credited for bringing down the evil Roger Goodell before its all over.

Another notch on his legacy belt

Wasnt buckley last week ready to call brady guilty as charged ? Now everyone says they dont believe anyone ? This is another way of saying "I was stupid to think that way but I wont admit , instead I will accuse both of them for framing me to think that way"

 

[Fencer]

Here is my honest thoughts.

I think Brady and the Patriots probably (over 50%) did a little something. I think after the Jets game they decided they can't leave the balls up to the officials anymore and would need to take matters into their own hands a little.

I don't think Brady wanted it below or at a certain PSI. Probably just something like "if it feels too inflated take a little air out". And Brady likes it on the low side anyway so I am sure they would air on the side of caution trying to get the balls the way Brady likes them. Also I think a lot of QBs do this as do other teams.

The main reason I don't agree that they're even that guilty is the Rube Goldberg-ish nature of the procedure. It is somewhat plausible that McNally was in the habit of softening up the balls while he was alone with them in the referees' locker room, and that he found an alternative way of doing the same thing (i.e. the bathroom stop) when the room was unusually crowded for the AFCC, and that this all started after the Jets game.

But that wouldn't match the accusations of Pats' footballs being soft at ROAD games. And it also wouldn't match the timing otexts with the Deflator joke and so on.

So my best guess is that there was no post-referee-inspection cheating of any kind.