Sign the Beasts LVIII -- Anyone Have a Binky in the Veteran Combine?

[mikey m]

I think it is any persons best interest not to openly discuss their sex life in the work place or when doing something that has to do with work. I'm a pilot and work with many gay men, they never get on the intercom and announce that they are gay, and the straight people never announce that they are straight either.

If someone walked up to Sam and said to him "are you gay" I think he should answer honestly and hide nothing, I think he should have lived his life normally and of people noticed him and his boyfriend on social media or on a date somewhere that's fine, it would come out authentically. Instead be went on national TV in front of people who for the most part had no clue who he was and led with his sexual preference, tell me when you have ever seen any other NFL prospect do that?

Totally agree with you brotha. Not sure if it came across in my post but I was sarcastically summing up the viewpoint of your opposition. That being, if you believe Sam's lack of NFL success has more to do with his talent (or lack thereof) than being blackballed for his sexuality, then you are a bigot. If you think he would have been better served to work on his combine/nfl preparation rather than announce his sexual preferances, you are a bigot. If you don't want the patriots to sign an average-at-best pass rusher who can't stop the run, drop back in coverage, etc then you are a bigot. We have homosexual friends, support gay marriage and have no ill feelings toward anyone for their sexual orientation? No matter, we don't like Michael Sam the player so we are bigoted neanderthals who the progressing world will soon be laughing at.

 

[Ring 6]

Totally agree with you brotha. Not sure if it came across in my post but I was sarcastically summing up the viewpoint of your opposition. That being, if you believe Sam's lack of NFL success has more to do with his talent (or lack thereof) than being blackballed for his sexuality, then you are a bigot.

Of course not, if that is what he said it would be fine. Thats not what he said.

If you think he would have been better served to work on his combine/nfl preparation rather than announce his sexual preferences, you are a bigot.

Now you are getting warm. Explain how 'announcing his sexual preferences' would have any impact on 'working on his combine'? Many players are not good enough to make it in the NFL. Singling out this one because he is gay, or implying his gayness made him lazy, is where the bigotry enters the room.

If you don't want the patriots to sign an average-at-best pass rusher who can't stop the run, drop back in coverage, etc then you are a bigot.

Of course not, but if you don't want the Patriots to sign a player because he didn't hide his sexual orientation and therefore would be a distraction, then yes, you are a bigot.

We have homosexual friends, support gay marriage and have no ill feelings toward anyone for their sexual orientation? No matter, we don't like Michael Sam the player so we are bigoted neanderthals who the progressing world will soon be laughing at.

Again, you are creating a total strawman. No one is saying views about the players ability are bigotted. But views about his lifestyle, choices in disclosing it, and comments such as 'the right thing to do would have been to not public say he is gay' and certainly bigotted.

 

[Ring 6]

What exactly were offensive about my comments?

I've already explained that. Lets start with your comment about what 'the right thing to do' was. Telling him that he should have hidden it until he established a career is ridiculously bigotted.

You sound like a fool right now, you are trying to fabricate something out of nothing to disagree with me and using a subject such as Michael Sam that is very sensitive to do so.

I ignore 99% of your posts, so this claim is silly.

It is really ridiculous actually, nothing I said was offensive at all, and they certainly were not unfortunate, they were an accurate assessment of the situation.

I am sure they are accurate of your views. I actually believe you do not intend to be bigotted. Your views certainly are, but this is more a function of your believing every thought you have is perfect and you could never be wrong about anything. That causes you to be blind to any viewpoint except your own, which is why I almost never read or respond to your posts.

Michael Sam is not that talented, he is a bottom of the roster player if on a NFL team, and because he decided to broadcast his personal life on millions of TVs across the country he now has a large media following that can be viewed as a distraction or annoyance to any team.

Offensive attitude #1.
He is living his life. You seem to want him to not be able to do so.
Since there are so many bigots out there, it draws attention. You cannot blame the guy for living his life because it draws attention. He has done nothing out of the ordinary. If he were straight, nothing he has done would have drawn attention. You are making different rules because of his sexual orientation.

Any player, who makes his personal life public opens themselves up to be a distraction, whether that is because they are gay, overly religious, political, etc. The #1 thing any HR person tells managers and employees is not to discuss sex, religion, or politics. Michael Sam did something that every employer frowns on and make no mistake NFL teams are “employers”.

You want to rely on the fact Sam is gay to ignore that he intentionally exploited his own personal life in a calculated attempt to build his notoriety heading into the draft.

What are you talking about? You act like he decided to become gay to get attention.

No other players broadcast their sexuality to the media, they do not talk about their personal lives, and that is not hiding who they are, that is being professional, and not bring their personal life into work.

Didn't Tanneyhill 'broadcast his sexuality' by bringing his hot wife to the draft? Almost every drafted player has a girlfriend with them. The fact that Sams was a guy makes you treat it differntly.
That is what bigotry is, you treat the exact same thing differently because of your bias. In your comments being heterosexual is flying under the radar but being gay is 'broadcasting your personal life'. You are holding them to a different standard because of sexual orientation, which is bigotry.

Terrell Owens invited the media to his home to witness what he does with his personal time, same thing inviting media into aspects of your life that are irrelevant to what happens on the football field.

Michael Sam didn't do that.

As far as who I am, I am a football fan who does not give a **** who football players sleep with, so I do not want to hear about it and I am certainly not going to treat them any different,

But you are.

if a player stood up tomorrow and said I only like to date blonde haired girls, I would say the same exact thing, he should not have said it, because it is not something that affects his job performance so it is irrelevant to the position he is trying to be hired for.

What a totally ignorant statement.

 

[primetime]

Your failure was thinking that bigotry only applies to certain situations but it is actually anyone who shows intolerance for others opinions

uh no it's not, you missed a key concept - it needs to be unfair dislike

 

[Brady6]

uh no it's not

big·ot
ˈbiɡət/
noun

1. a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

 

[primetime]

big·ot
ˈbiɡət/
noun

1. a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


Unfair dislike is a key concept here. Yours is on full display; Marinlik's is not. It's also much higher-stake than just disliking someone's opinions. Deus Irae isn't a bigot because he disagrees with everyone about the Patriots; he's a contrarian.

 

[Brady6]

I've already explained that. Lets start with your comment about what 'the right thing to do' was. Telling him that he should have hidden it until he established a career is ridiculously bigotted.

I never said he should keep his life hidden. I said he should not have broadcast his personal life on national television. If he had simply been seen with his boyfriend out and about and the questioned followed from him living his life authentically it would have been a non-issue. There was nothing authentic about what Sam did here, it was a Kardashian move, making your personal life public without any request from the public to do so in order to build your notoriety.

I am sure they are accurate of your views. I actually believe you do not intend to be bigotted. Your views certainly are, but this is more a function of your believing every thought you have is perfect and you could never be wrong about anything. That causes you to be blind to any viewpoint except your own, which is why I almost never read or respond to your posts.

I do not think every thought I have is perfect. However, these days’ people want to be outraged about anything and everything, and frankly, it is unfair that what someone says about a person’s behavior is met with accusations of bigotry simply because the person they are speaking about falls into a specific segment of the population.

Let me ask you, do you declare your sexuality during the interview and hiring process for job, and do you do it voluntarily? Do you think that whom Michael Sam is attracted to has any bearing on how he plays on the football field?

What are you talking about? You act like he decided to become gay to get attention.

No I am not I am acting as if he made his personal life public by volunteering to share it with the national media, this created attention that can be viewed as a distraction. The Kardashian would not be a fixture of the national media if they did not willingly offer their personal lives up. Sam did something similar, he was not living his life. Tom Brady on the beach in pics with his kid, which is living life, Sam was in a studio.

Didn't Tanneyhill 'broadcast his sexuality' by bringing his hot wife to the draft? Almost every drafted player has a girlfriend with them. The fact that Sams was a guy makes you treat it differntly.
That is what bigotry is, you treat the exact same thing differently because of your bias. In your comments being heterosexual is flying under the radar but being gay is 'broadcasting your personal life'. You are holding them to a different standard because of sexual orientation, which is bigotry.

If Sam had brought his BF to the draft I would not have a problem, that was an authentic way for Trannehill’s sexuality to be exposed to the media, what Sam did was not authentic, it was orchestrated.

What a totally ignorant statement.

Why? How is it any different other than the fact that society has an implied sensitivity level for sexual preference?

 

[Brady6]

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


Unfair dislike is a key concept here. Yours is on full display; Marinlik's is not. It's also much higher-stake than just disliking someone's opinions. Deus Irae isn't a bigot because he disagrees with everyone about the Patriots; he's a contrarian.

I am not a bigot because I disagree with how Michael Sam handled how he went about sharing the details of his personal life, I never said anything about disagreeing with how Sam lives his life, or anything to that degree. So please tell me what is different, because the way I see it I disagree with how someone handled a situation, so if I am a bigot so are you, because you right here are disagreeing with how I handled myself in this thread.

 

[primetime]

I am not a bigot because I disagree with how Michael Sam handled how he went about sharing the details of his personal life, I never said anything about disagreeing with how Sam lives his life, or anything to that degree. So please tell me what is different, because the way I see it I disagree with how someone handled a situation, so if I am a bigot so are you, because you right here are disagreeing with how I handled myself in this thread.

Your treatment of him is unfair. You say he should have kept his sexuality a secret - even though it would have eventually come out and become a media story for precisely the reason you are showing, and even though being in the closet is extremely deleterious to mental and emotional health and well-being - while you give implicit free rides to straight players like Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork whose heterosexual personal lives are also in our face. I don't have a problem with this, by the way. I think showing love and affection in public to someone else, regardless of gender, is cool.

You're being heteronormative - that is, you're holding gay people to a different set of standards than straight people. And, despite what you think, being openly gay in the NFL is a big deal. It's not Jackie Robinson in baseball, but it is something that has never happened before. This is why the media flocked to Michael Sam, regardless of whether he wanted it or not.

As for Dancing with the Stars, I'm guessing he's making serious money to appear on that show. He's also far from the first athlete still pursuing a career in their sport to appear on the show: Apolo Ohno, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Chad Johnson, Ron Artest, Hope Solo, Donald Driver, Jacoby Jones, Misty May Treanor, Shawn Johnson were all still active when they appeared. Depending on your definition of sport, so were Chris Jericho and Michael Waltrip.

 

[Ring 6]

I never said he should keep his life hidden. I said he should not have broadcast his personal life on national television. If he had simply been seen with his boyfriend out and about and the questioned followed from him living his life authentically it would have been a non-issue. There was nothing authentic about what Sam did here, it was a Kardashian move, making your personal life public without any request from the public to do so in order to build your notoriety.

He told people he was gay. What is wrong with that? He has his boyfriend with him during the draft.
This is exactly the issue. Because he is gay, you find that offensive, call it a 'broadcast' and feel he does not have that right.
Change it to his girlfriend and explain what he did wrong. In other words, if you remove the fact that he is gay from the argument there is nothing you would complain about, unless you are going to criticize every player who is seen with a girl as well.

I do not think every thought I have is perfect. However, these days’ people want to be outraged about anything and everything, and frankly, it is unfair that what someone says about a person’s behavior is met with accusations of bigotry simply because the person they are speaking about falls into a specific segment of the population.

I agree there is too much 'pc' and too much searching for a reason to be offended.
But you truly are treating this man differently because he is gay.

Let me ask you, do you declare your sexuality during the interview and hiring process for job, and do you do it voluntarily? Do you think that whom Michael Sam is attracted to has any bearing on how he plays on the football field?

This is an absurd comment. I am certain that I would mention ex-wife, girlfriend, kids in an interview. (Havent actually had an interview in years, but I am certain that would come up, it is natural).
You seem to think that stating his preference is some type of grandstanding effort.
What he did was get it out there because he wanted to live in the open. You can't seriously tell me that you think he should not live as a gay man, but pretend in front of teammates that he is straight can you? If you agree he has a right to be open about his life how can you possibly think you have any right, ability or insight into telling him what the right way to do that is?

No I am not I am acting as if he made his personal life public by volunteering to share it with the national media, this created attention that can be viewed as a distraction. The Kardashian would not be a fixture of the national media if they did not willingly offer their personal lives up. Sam did something similar, he was not living his life. Tom Brady on the beach in pics with his kid, which is living life, Sam was in a studio.

So, he should hide his sexuiality, or consult you on the correct way to deal with being a gay man in the NFL?

If Sam had brought his BF to the draft I would not have a problem, that was an authentic way for Trannehill’s sexuality to be exposed to the media, what Sam did was not authentic, it was orchestrated.

Wait, what exactly are you arguing about here?

Why? How is it any different other than the fact that society has an implied sensitivity level for sexual preference?

You compared preferring blond women to dealing with life as a gay man in an NFL lockerroom as if they were the same thing. As I said ignorant.

 

[Ring 6]

I am not a bigot because I disagree with how Michael Sam handled how he went about sharing the details of his personal life, I never said anything about disagreeing with how Sam lives his life, or anything to that degree. So please tell me what is different, because the way I see it I disagree with how someone handled a situation, so if I am a bigot so are you, because you right here are disagreeing with how I handled myself in this thread.

How he deals with disclosing his sexuality is part of his life.
You have repeatedly said that he should not make it public for some bizarre reason which I do not understand, but apparently adds up to you were offended by it.
If people want to know about his personal life, who is hurt?

 

[primetime]

The NFL is different than any other job. I don't know why people continue to analogize their own job to the NFL.

And even if they do, most people talk about their personal lives with co-workers because it's normal to do so. Maybe not in an interview (but I've never been asked if my mother was a prostitute in an interview either, like Jeff Ireland asked Dez Bryant), but certainly after being hired. However, my office is not scrutinized 24/7 by legions of media and fans, either.

 

[meatface]

I remember when this thread was just about players we'd like to see do well in the veteran combine. Not homophobia or laughing at players poor 40 times

 

[Ring 6]

I am not a bigot because I disagree with how Michael Sam handled how he went about sharing the details of his personal life, I never said anything about disagreeing with how Sam lives his life, or anything to that degree. So please tell me what is different, because the way I see it I disagree with how someone handled a situation, so if I am a bigot so are you, because you right here are disagreeing with how I handled myself in this thread.

Just a comment here. Bigotry is not always a case of hatred, it is often a case of ignorance, and not understanding that your viewpoint is offensive. The general solution is to listen to the viewpoints of people who find your opinion offensive and try to see it from a different angle. Bigotry is often a case of not understanding how people that are different than you feel.
Typing in bold "I am not a bigot" in response to people pointing out how your views are offensive kind of proves the point. When you follow that with 'all I am doing is disagreeing with how he handles his personal life' it is very ironic to say the least.

 

[Brady6]

Your treatment of him is unfair. You say he should have kept his sexuality a secret - even though it would have eventually come out and become a media story for precisely the reason you are showing, and even though being in the closet is extremely deleterious to mental and emotional health and well-being - while you give implicit free rides to straight players like Tom Brady or Vince Wilfork whose heterosexual personal lives are also in our face. I don't have a problem with this, by the way. I think showing love and affection in public to someone else, regardless of gender, is cool.

You're being heteronormative - that is, you're holding gay people to a different set of standards than straight people. And, despite what you think, being openly gay in the NFL is a big deal. It's not Jackie Robinson in baseball, but it is something that has never happened before. This is why the media flocked to Michael Sam, regardless of whether he wanted it or not.

As for Dancing with the Stars, I'm guessing he's making serious money to appear on that show. He's also far from the first athlete still pursuing a career in their sport to appear on the show: Apolo Ohno, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Chad Johnson, Ron Artest, Hope Solo, Donald Driver, Jacoby Jones, Misty May Treanor, Shawn Johnson were all still active when they appeared. Depending on your definition of sport, so were Chris Jericho and Michael Waltrip.

When if ever did I say he should have kept his sexuality a secret? Those words never came out of my mouth? I said he could have lived life as it was and keep it authentic. He instead orchestrated the announcement of his sexuality. That is very different and if anyone orchestrated the announcement of something in their personal life it would bring attention. This is not about Sam being gay, this is about Sam orchestrating the details of his personal life in order to gain notoriety. It was a calculated decision, it was not an example of him living his life, he wanted to be recognized as the first gay football player. Do not try and under score it as if he could not have lived his life honestly and be who he was without first going 20/20 because that is a load of ****, no team cares about him being gay they care about his desire to be in the public eye.

Bigotry is also fabricated often times by people who are looking for something to be outraged about so they portray any social sensitive matter as something that they are offended by. I say a straight man shouldn't talk about his personal life on national TV and it is a non issue, I say a gay man shouldn't talk about his personal life on TV and I'm a bigot and you're offended. Seems to be a double standard of what is acceptable to say about some and unacceptable to say about others.

 

[primetime]

When if ever did I say he should have kept his sexuality a secret? Those words never came out of my mouth? I said he could have lived life as it was and keep it authentic. He instead orchestrated the announcement of his sexuality. That is very different and if anyone orchestrated the announcement of something in their personal life it would bring attention. This is not about Sam being gay, this is about Sam orchestrating the details of his personal life in order to gain notoriety. It was a calculated decision, it was not an example of him living his life, he wanted to be recognized as the first gay football player. Do not try and under score it as if he could not have lived his life honestly and be who he was without first going 20/20 because that is a load of ****, no team cares about him being gay they care about his desire to be in the public eye.

Bigotry is also fabricated often times by people who are looking for something to be outraged about so they portray any social sensitive matter as something that they are offended by. I say a straight man shouldn't talk about his personal life on national TV and it is a non issue, I say a gay man shouldn't talk about his personal life on TV and I'm a bigot and you're offended. Seems to be a double standard of what is acceptable to say about some and unacceptable to say about others.

It would have come out eventually if he did not hide it, and it would have been a big deal in the media, even if it was not in the locker room, for exactly the reason you are putting on full display here. Sam made a calculated decision to come out prior to the draft in order to head off the media current - that is, he made the decision so he would not be a distraction to his employer. He said this over and over, and after coming out said nothing but he wanted to concentrate on football.

The reason you are being called a bigot is because you are ascribing to Michael Sam the motive of putting himself in the limelight, when his motivation was precisely the opposite. It was everyone else who put him in the limelight whether for good or bad reasons. But the fact that he was put in the limelight shows that an openly gay NFL player is a bigger deal than you desperately seem to want it to be. You need a Michael Sam in the limelight to make gay players in the NFL a "normal" occurrence. That is, your preference - to not hear about a player's sexuality - requires a Michael Sam, or if not him then it would have been someone else. There was never any avoiding this.

 

[mgteich]

SAM

1) Over the years, there have been many players who have been gay. There has been only one who chose to celebrate his sexuality. Sam CHOSE to come out and make his private life public. He chose to try to make money out of the publicity of his coming out. He chose to have the media present when he kissed his partner when LA chose him as an NFL prospect. Sam has likely made lots more money from articles and dancing than from football. Does anyone think that he would be paid for dancing had he not chosen his strategy to focus on his private life instead of football?

I think it reasonable to question the reasonableness of his strategies.

2) Many teams ignored the media circus and judged Sam AS A PLAYER. Many, many media outlets judged Sam as a player. Most services had him a a 6th round project, not ready for prime time. Nothing so far has demonstrating anything different from that.

3) PERHAPS, more teams would be willing to take a chance on a player who keeps his private life to himself, perhaps not.

I don't see anything unreasonable in teams not wanting to take a flyer on Sam.

 

[Galeb]

I remember when this thread was just about players we'd like to see do well in the veteran combine. Not homophobia or laughing at players poor 40 times

I hear ya, but you gotta marvel at their bladder control.

 

[mgteich]

Sam made a calculated decision to come out prior to the draft in order to head off the media current - that is, he made the decision so he would not be a distraction to his employer. He said this over and over, and after coming out said nothing but he wanted to concentrate on football.

Someone gave Sam the advice to come out before the draft, and to publicly celebrate his sexuality by spending being in a gay bar when he was drafted and kissing his partner on national television when he received the call.

This was poor advice if this was supposed to be the way to show that he didn't want to be a distraction. The story would certainly have played out in the media, had he not chosen his strategy. He could have answered reporters when asked, and suggested that his private life be private. Sam chaos a different approach. IMHO, his strategy was questionable.

 

[primetime]

Someone gave Sam the advice to come out before the draft, and to publicly celebrate his sexuality by spending being in a gay bar when he was drafted and kissing his partner on national television when he received the call.

This was poor advice if this was supposed to be the way to show that he didn't want to be a distraction. The story would certainly have played out in the media, had he not chosen his strategy. He could have answered reporters when asked, and suggested that his private life be private. Sam chaos a different approach. IMHO, his strategy was questionable.

I don't think it would have played out any differently. Hanging out in a gay bar and kissing your partner is hardly a distraction. The people who have problems with it are the people who have problems with it. Again, not his fault.