Major overhaul on the o-line according to SMY (merged)

[PP2]

Armstrong-Hannah-Dr. Bill-Mankins-Light?

Dr. Bill would just get pushed back into Brady.

 

[Zeus]

Next up, the solution at WR...

You will need a live chicken, a pogo stick and a bottle of Irish whiskey.

 

[Marqui]

Can someone explain why Cannon can apparently hack it at OT but not OG? The weird thing I noticed last week was that he was getting bull rushed back into the pocket, which isn't really what I expected to see in terms of weaknesses from him.

Just wondering what it is specifically about his skill set that lends itself to OT, but not OG, in the NFL.

From what I've seen it's because he's a pusher and not an engager. He doesn't use his hands well to grab a DLs pads and control him. Just pushing can work fine at OT where he can just push edge rushers around past Brady. But on the inside where there's less space, it doesn't work at all.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Can someone explain why Cannon can apparently hack it at OT but not OG? The weird thing I noticed last week was that he was getting bull rushed back into the pocket, which isn't really what I expected to see in terms of weaknesses from him.

Just wondering what it is specifically about his skill set that lends itself to OT, but not OG, in the NFL.

I'm no expert obviously, but the reason I have always thought it was a bad idea for him to play guard is that he doesn't seem to sustain blocks. At guard he needs to get his hands locked on a guy and control them. At tackle it is very different. At tackle he just pushes his guy to the outside and rides him out of the picture for the most part.

 

[Mack Herron]

From what I've seen it's because he's a pusher and not an engager. He doesn't use his hands well to grab a DLs pads and control him. Just pushing can work fine at OT where he can just push edge rushers around past Brady. But on the inside where there's less space, it doesn't work at all.

As a good, non-technical explanation, Stephen Neal once said that playing guard was like being in a traffic crash on every play.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you really believe 3 games is a dispositive sample at a new position? I grant the reaction time issue, but I think that could be overcome in time and with a good life general.

The things Cannon seem to lack are not things that can come with experience in most cases. The knock on him seems to be that he is not processing the play fast enough and is slow to react. That is tough to impossible to teach.

That is not a skill that is neccessary for a tackle because their assignments are easier. It is something needed for a guard.

 

[doesntmatter1]

wow marqui, you litterally just beat me to the punch.

 

[Ivan]

Cannon is too good a player to relegate to the bench. To build continuity, it takes time and continued playing together. Three games is not as good as four games, so I'd prefer that the experiment continue with Solder and Cannon, rather then going back to Square One and starting from scratch.

I am in agreement with those who think Cannon is a Tackle, period. I think moving him back to swing tackle is the best move for the team and i like the line-up we are hearing about today, i hope they stick with that one because I agree about the consistency and its importance.

 

[JMC00]

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Stanford rushed for 2,922 yards last season. David Shaw told me they ran behind Cameron Fleming when they needed yards.

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Yup RT @NEPatsJD52: @jeffphowe watch Tyler Gaffney highlights, you can see clearly most of his successful runs came off a big Fleming block.

Think Ridley might be running to the right a few times tonight.

 

[dales804]

Won't it be funny if NE has the same starting o-line as last week? Everyone talking about changes and Bill puts out the same five.

 

[makoute]

BB on Stork:



http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports...-and-versatility-of-bryan-stork-ryan-wendell/

The "last couple years" have included Travis Frederick (31, 2013), Weston Richburg (43, 2014), Peter Konz (55, 2012), Marcus Martin (70, 2014), and Travis Swanson (76, 2014). That would take us back to 2011, when Mike Pouncey went #15 overall to Miami, 2 picks before the Pats took Nate Solder. The Pats were reportedly very interested in Pouncey and had him rated slightly higher than Solder, who they considered a top 10 talent.

If Stork ends up being "as good as any center" since Mike Pouncey, the Pats will be in pretty decent shape at the position over the long haul.

Thank goodness that didn't happen, or else the Pats might have 2 ex players in jail on murder charges.

 

[VrabelJr]

Me, I'd start JAG the first series so if the change is a failure our main guy isn't killed

I can hear it now:

"JAG to JEG, JEG is zig zagging all the way to the end zone!"

 

[Mack Herron]

Thank goodness that didn't happen, or else the Pats might have 2 ex players in jail on murder charges.

But if Cannon replaces Connolly we could still have a line with 4 OTs.

 

[BobDigital]

Do you really believe 3 games is a dispositive sample at a new position? I grant the reaction time issue, but I think that could be overcome in time and with a good life general.

I don't know Mayo. I know you have been on this train for a while like a lot of other posters (me included). I just don't see it right now. He looks like a guard. His measurables say guard. But this is his 4th year in the NFL and the only time he has had success has been at tackle. I have seen him take snaps at guard not just this year but the past few years and he has been inconsistent at best from that position.

Maybe he will learn how to play it in the future but I don't want to keep getting Brady killed in the mean time while he learns under fire (and he might never get it). I think it says in the bible "what would it profit a team to gain a guard but to lose it's QB" or something like that : p

At this point that I don't know if he will ever be a guard. Players sometimes fit outside their meassurables and position they should play going by the general archetypes and play well at ones you wouldn't expect. At this point I am thinking Cannon is such a player. He seems like a tackle in a guards body and no matter how much we all think he should be able to play guard maybe he just can't.

Something in the technique might just be too awkward for him to do for a reason that can't be seen going by his player bio.

 

[Ivan]

But if Cannon replaces Connolly we could still have a line with 4 OTs.

I think they can move Cannon into the BIG TE/OT role Fleming has been playing.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I said that i thought BB was going to do the Offensive changes in stages to minimize disruption, while winning some games.

Stage 1 Veteran Cannon to LG. Give the best of Dante's PS projects some game experience for eventual depth.

Stage 2a Give first rookie Stork some snaps at Center. Move Devey elsewhere for more exposure.
Stage 2b Start rookie Stork. Give rookie Flemming some exposure. Sit Devey.

Stage 3a Give rookie Flemming some snaps at RG. Support with veteran Connolly or Wendell.
Stage 3b Start Rookie Flemming.

Stage 4 Give reconstructed Offensive line multi-game exposure at their new positions to build continuity, communication and unspoken expectations.

Where are we? We are 2-1 atop the AFCE, and at Stage 2b, only three games into the reconstruction. Some think its major surprise Flemming is playing. Not me. BB is calm. He is proceeding right ahead and sees no reason to alter the plan. It's the natural progression of the plan and IMHO way too soon to Panic. Check back with me after Flemming has two or three starts, under his belt,around Game 7.

Meanwhile, Mediots are ignorant, and raving. Pat's Bloggers are ranting, screaming, and venting spittle, blaming everyone, Brady, Gug, each of the players, proposing insanities like lets shifty everyone around to new positions, so that no one knows the plays. Of course shooting the innocent.

 

[BobDigital]

I think they can move Cannon into the BIG TE/OT role Fleming has been playing.

I expect to see this tonight. Cannon is a monster run blocker off the edge and KC's run D is questionable.

 

[Ivan]

I expect to see this tonight. Cannon is a monster run blocker off the edge and KC's run D is questionable.

Same here, that would be one big assed right side of the O with Fleming, Vollmer, and Cannon at the BIG spot..

 

[SacPete1]

I expect to see this tonight. Cannon is a monster run blocker off the edge and KC's run D is questionable.

If Fleming was with the one's on Wednesday then the game plan must be heavy runs and I think you are spot on with Cannon at TE.
One problem I see is having to use silent snap counts and thus the OL reacts to the DL and can't fire off the ball first.

 

[primetime]

Same here, that would be one big assed right side of the O with Fleming, Vollmer, and Cannon at the BIG spot..

They're certainly not going to be running at the middle except through draw plays. Good chance Poe has his way with the interior.