Will Contribute If They Are Healthy

[patfanken]

I tend to think that Fells will battle for the TE4 spot with Hooman/UDFA future pickup myself (due to the recent cut of Herman it's hard to project "who" that other player may be).

It has been rumored that Fells was more injured than anyone realized last year. If that's the case, he may very well have a leg up on Hooman--due to more overall talent in both blocking and receiving.

OTOH--if they wish to save a little money, Fells may be the odd man out.

A healthy Fells is a more talented TE option than Hooman, who is more steady. I'm interested in seeing this UDFA TE. At 6'7 a reported 4.7 forty, and good hands, he's a guy I hope we can hide on the PS this season.

I think the TE roster will be Gronk, Hernandez, Ballard, and Fells unless BB feels Fells is making too much money to be the 4th TE and Hernandez back up. IMHO with Ballard and Fells in there as the 2 TE's the offense wouldn't be as good as it is with Gronk and Hernandez, but they'd be good enough that they wouldn't have to drastically change what they are doing.

A healthy and "fluid" Dowling would be big boost to the secondary, simply because with 2 big outside CB's the Pats would get better matchups all over the field, and the ripple effect would make everyone better.

Bequette, Cunningham and Hightower will be 3 guys I'll be looking to see marked improvement from this TC, along of course with Jones, Dennard, and TWilson.

BTW- OT- Funny how "fluid" and "fluidity" have become everyone's now favorite catch phrase, in our never ending attempt to convince ourselves and everyone else that we know what we are talking about.

 

[supafly]

Edelman is in no danger of not making the roster. As you say, the is top punt returner. He is also a backup slot receiver, Obviously, he could be injured in camp; but that is true of every player on the roster.

As far as competition, Jones, Jenkins and free agents will compete for the last WR spot. Edelman is certainly much more likely to make the 53 than any of them.

Unless....TJ Moe comes on enough to warrant a roster spot (which is doubtful in my opinion, but anything is certainly possible).

If that's the case, we already have Washington (both KR/PR) and Amendola (primarily a PR but has done both) to possibly push Edelman out as a ST-only player, especially if anyone else shows any potential as a punt returner also, which is highly assumed.

I expect competition everywhere, and I wouldn't say that Edelman is a 100% lock by any means, although he's probably around 65-70% in my opinion at this point in time. Obviously that number will go up or down based on other circumstances.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pryor is already gone. We will see who of the following three comes back healthy enough to be a serious contributor. I understand that there are many coming back from injuries, but their role is not questioned (Hernandez and Gronkowski).

COMING BACK FROM INJURIES
Fletcher (alternative is Beuharnais)
Dowling (alternative is Cole)
Ballard (alternative is Fells)

Most important to be is that we have the alternatives.

I'm not sure that I'd call Beuharnais a Fletcher replacement. My understanding is that he's more like Spikes - excellent in run support, but pretty slow.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think Dowling could start ahead of Dennard if he is healthy. That's a big if though.

With the drafting of Jamie Collins, I'm not sure what Fletcher's use will be. He can definitely contribute to Special Teams and maybe he can spell Spikes and Hightower occasionally. Still a good body to have on the roster if he's healthy.

 

[mgteich]

Why wouldn't we be able to hide an UDFA on the Practice Squad?

A healthy Fells is a more talented TE option than Hooman, who is more steady. I'm interested in seeing this UDFA TE. At 6'7 a reported 4.7 forty, and good hands, he's a guy I hope we can hide on the PS this season.

 

[ay-yo]

I'm not as confident in a healthy Dowling as many others seem to be. IIRC he started against the Titans last year in game 1 and after looking terrible was demoted before the 1st quarter had ended.

Ballard has shown more on the field than either of Fletcher or Dowling. I think he can be a nice piece for us.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Unless....TJ Moe comes on enough to warrant a roster spot (which is doubtful in my opinion, but anything is certainly possible).

If that's the case, we already have Washington (both KR/PR) and Amendola (primarily a PR but has done both) to possibly push Edelman out as a ST-only player, especially if anyone else shows any potential as a punt returner also, which is highly assumed.

I expect competition everywhere, and I wouldn't say that Edelman is a 100% lock by any means, although he's probably around 65-70% in my opinion at this point in time. Obviously that number will go up or down based on other circumstances.

Edelman is not a 100% lock to make the team? Really? .. Tell me I did't just read that. A star punt, kick off and special team player, and a rising star at the backup slot position, who Belichick likes to put the ball in his hands anyway possible, whether it be screens, reverses, gadget plays or even handoffs... and half the time, just to get some juice going in the fans. And has proven to be an interchangeable part, smart player with tons of versatility. Basically, our own swiss army knife, slash or whatever you want to call him... please. The guy was on fire in both the offense and return game before he got hurt last Thanksgiving.. I think he no doubt makes the team, and its not up for debate lol

 

[pdangle]

Oh no, here we go again

Quote:

Originally Posted by supafly
Unless....TJ Moe comes on enough to warrant a roster spot (which is doubtful in my opinion, but anything is certainly possible).

If that's the case, we already have Washington (both KR/PR) and Amendola (primarily a PR but has done both) to possibly push Edelman out as a ST-only player, especially if anyone else shows any potential as a punt returner also, which is highly assumed.

I expect competition everywhere, and I wouldn't say that Edelman is a 100% lock by any means, although he's probably around 65-70% in my opinion at this point in time. Obviously that number will go up or down based on other circumstances.

Edelman is not a 100% lock to make the team? Really? .. Tell me I did't just read that. A star punt, kick off and special team player, and a rising star at the backup slot position, who Belichick likes to put the ball in his hands anyway possible, whether it be screens, reverses, gadget plays or even handoffs... and half the time, just to get some juice going in the fans. And has proven to be an interchangeable part, smart player with tons of versatility. Basically, our own swiss army knife, slash or whatever you want to call him... please. The guy was on fire in both the offense and return game before he got hurt last Thanksgiving.. I think he no doubt makes the team, and its not up for debate lol

 

[supafly]

Edelman is not a 100% lock to make the team? Really? .. Tell me I did't just read that. A star punt, kick off and special team player, and a rising star at the backup slot position, who Belichick likes to put the ball in his hands anyway possible, whether it be screens, reverses, gadget plays or even handoffs... and half the time, just to get some juice going in the fans. And has proven to be an interchangeable part, smart player with tons of versatility. Basically, our own swiss army knife, slash or whatever you want to call him... please. The guy was on fire in both the offense and return game before he got hurt last Thanksgiving.. I think he no doubt makes the team, and its not up for debate lol

For what it's worth, I was one of Edelman's biggest supporters to those who claimed that he was "on the bubble" last year. As a matter of fact, I put it in my signature that he'd definitely make the team and 'contribute in a pleasant way.'

This year---I'm not as sure. Belichick was in no rush whatsoever to sign him, and his contract is of the extreme lower end where we could easily cut him for no backlash whatsoever. If Belichick were that concerned about losing Edelman, I'd imagine that he'd have signed him to the vet minimum a lot earlier, no? If he were 1/2 as important as you claim (by the way I like the comment of inserting him to "juice up the fans," that's rich), then why would Belichick have risked losing him to another team for such a ridiculously low amount of salary? Better yet, if he's 1/2 of what you're claiming, why didn't he receive any other offers or attention for the insanely low amount that he'll be making?

And for what it's worth, EVERY player (with the exception of a handful) will be up for competition this year, just the same as every year. To say that Edelman is only a "65-70%" lock to make the roster is not that controversial. I think you need to re-read the post before questioning it so boldly. Many here are pretty high on backup slot player TJ Moe at the moment, so if Moe were to somehow win a roster spot Edelman would be the only logical player to go. Or do you somehow think we'd keep 3/5 WR's on the active roster as slot guys?

You're making a whole lot of noise about a player who hasn't contributed on much of any level outside of some special teams plays 2-3x a year, and Belichick addressed that issue by bringing in Leon Washington and Danny Amendola this year. I don't count 21 catches and an insanely low 1 yr salary as "not being up for debate."

 

[ausbacker]

Edelman is not a 100% lock to make the team? Really? .. Tell me I did't just read that. A star punt, kick off and special team player, and a rising star at the backup slot position, who Belichick likes to put the ball in his hands anyway possible, whether it be screens, reverses, gadget plays or even handoffs... and half the time, just to get some juice going in the fans. And has proven to be an interchangeable part, smart player with tons of versatility. Basically, our own swiss army knife, slash or whatever you want to call him... please. The guy was on fire in both the offense and return game before he got hurt last Thanksgiving.. I think he no doubt makes the team, and its not up for debate lol

Of course it's up for debate. At this point in time, Edelman is hardly an integral part of the Offense or Special Teams given the acquisition of Leon Washington. Edelman is a nice player and a good soldier but he's hardly irreplaceable given the likes of Brady, Wilfork and Gronk.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, if Moe makes the 53 (doubtful), he will replace Jones.

I think that Josh was fine with Jules as the #3 WR. He certainly should be fine with him at #3 or #4 depending on how the rookies are performing.

Unless....TJ Moe comes on enough to warrant a roster spot (which is doubtful in my opinion, but anything is certainly possible).

If that's the case, we already have Washington (both KR/PR) and Amendola (primarily a PR but has done both) to possibly push Edelman out as a ST-only player, especially if anyone else shows any potential as a punt returner also, which is highly assumed.

I expect competition everywhere, and I wouldn't say that Edelman is a 100% lock by any means, although he's probably around 65-70% in my opinion at this point in time. Obviously that number will go up or down based on other circumstances.

 

[supafly]

IMHO, if Moe makes the 53 (doubtful), he will replace Jones.

I think that Josh was fine with Jules as the #3 WR. He certainly should be fine with him at #3 or #4 depending on how the rookies are performing.

Edelman is a good special teams player, but he is extremely overrated as an actual WR. The guy hasn't done a damn thing in 4 yrs of being in NE besides a nice play here and there. I think his salary speaks volumes as to how irreplacable Belichick views him. The fact that we've added a ST demon in Leon Washington + are in the middle of a complete overhaul at the WR position adds to some uncertainty. That's not even taking into acct that Amendola returns punts too...which only adds to the possibility.

The thought that he is a "100% lock" is certainly debatable, and that's why I gave my opinion that I see it at "65-70%" at the moment. In 7/10 rosters, I'd see Edelman making the 53. The other 30% would be if Moe made it (15% chance in my opinion) or if we added another receiver before the season from a casualty (the other 15%).

I wouldn't see much reason needing all 3 of Amendola, Edelman, and TJ Moe as slot receivers on a WR corps that will likely total 5 (6 if you count Slater), so that's where we disagree with "who" he'd replace. I think Jones has shown a lot more as an actual receiver and has more potential in that area.

FWIW--I'm not meaning to sell Edelman as short as it may appear. I've been a supporter of him since day one. I just don't see him this year as being "100%." Nothing more to my comments.

 

[mgteich]

I understand the idea of needing to have UDFA binkies. Edelman is an inexpensive punt returner and backup slot receiver. It's that simple. No, he hasn't shown much at receiver. Thankfully, he was playing behind Welker.

Moe would not be active if he made the roster unless he can beat out Jones, which is a long-shot possibility.

So, if you must have Moe as a binkie and think that he will make the 53, then think of him beating out Jones for a roster spot.

Edelman is a good special teams player, but he is extremely overrated as an actual WR. The guy hasn't done a damn thing in 4 yrs of being in NE besides a nice play here and there. I think his salary speaks volumes as to how irreplacable Belichick views him. The fact that we've added a ST demon in Leon Washington + are in the middle of a complete overhaul at the WR position adds to some uncertainty. That's not even taking into acct that Amendola returns punts too...which only adds to the possibility.

The thought that he is a "100% lock" is certainly debatable, and that's why I gave my opinion that I see it at "65-70%" at the moment. In 7/10 rosters, I'd see Edelman making the 53. The other 30% would be if Moe made it (15% chance in my opinion) or if we added another receiver before the season from a casualty (the other 15%).

I wouldn't see much reason needing all 3 of Amendola, Edelman, and TJ Moe as slot receivers on a WR corps that will likely total 5 (6 if you count Slater), so that's where we disagree with "who" he'd replace. I think Jones has shown a lot more as an actual receiver and has more potential in that area.

FWIW--I'm not meaning to sell Edelman as short as it may appear. I've been a supporter of him since day one. I just don't see him this year as being "100%." Nothing more to my comments.

 

[Nunchucks]

Moe probably does not have the athletic ability to succeed at the NFL level.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Edelman is not a 100% lock to make the team? Really? .. Tell me I did't just read that. A star punt, kick off and special team player, and a rising star at the backup slot position, who Belichick likes to put the ball in his hands anyway possible, whether it be screens, reverses, gadget plays or even handoffs... and half the time, just to get some juice going in the fans. And has proven to be an interchangeable part, smart player with tons of versatility. Basically, our own swiss army knife, slash or whatever you want to call him... please. The guy was on fire in both the offense and return game before he got hurt last Thanksgiving.. I think he no doubt makes the team, and its not up for debate lol

a rising star at the backup slot position has to be one of my new favorite statements. What does that mean even? He's on the cusp of becoming an exceptional backup, but still not quite good enough to start?

In any case, Edelman isn't a rising star at any position. He's a very good punt returner, a decent depth WR, and you can play him at CB in desperate situations. That's probably enough to win him a roster spot, but it's far from a guarantee. Not because of Moe--who isn't athletic enough to be a major asset at WR--but because Amendola and Washington have made him expendable on ST, and as a WR he's not much better than decent, and injury prone at that.

 

[supafly]

I understand the idea of needing to have UDFA binkies. Edelman is an inexpensive punt returner and backup slot receiver. It's that simple. No, he hasn't shown much at receiver. Thankfully, he was playing behind Welker.

Moe would not be active if he made the roster unless he can beat out Jones, which is a long-shot possibility.

So, if you must have Moe as a binkie and think that he will make the 53, then think of him beating out Jones for a roster spot.

I don't have a UDFA binky or a horse in this race.

I'm assuming that in the slight chance that Moe makes the roster, it would make Edelman more expendable due to their skillsets, and even moreso having signed Washington and Amendola for ST. That's where we seem to disagree.

What is it about Moe that reminds you more of Donald Jones than of Julian Edelman as far as replicating skillsets? It's the beginning of May, so until we see these players on the field, in TC, pre-season, and practices, I am not assuming much of anything. There is a roster makeover at the position of WR.

Besides Amendola, Dobson, and Boyce--I am not seeing anyone else as "locks" to make the WR position, and Edelman is definitely hurt by the acquisition of Leon Washington and Danny Amendola as far as his ST card that he's been playing. That said, I think we all still expect him to make the roster and consider his odds as pretty good.

 

[supafly]

Moe would not be active if he made the roster unless he can beat out Jones, which is a long-shot possibility.

So, if you must have Moe as a binkie and think that he will make the 53, then think of him beating out Jones for a roster spot.

This is now the second or third time that you've stated this, and I don't think you could honestly be any more incorrect. I think everyone in the world but you sees TJ Moe in the exact same vein as Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, and Julian Edelman---which means SLOT receiver.

Here is an article from the Herald:

Best in T.J. Moe won


"The University of Missouri wide receiver had a pro-day performance that prompted NFL draft guru Gil Brandt to utter the name Wes Welker by comparison.

Now, of course, the Pats have done their best to apply a tourniquet on that wound. They started with Danny Amendola, who was immediately signed in wake of Welker’s departure. But it’s hard to trust Amendola’s injury history. They also re-signed Julian Edelman. Ditto with his injury history.

Moe? He just might be an insurance policy, particularly the kind you can depend on. He’s another slot receiver who fits the Welker profile from the perspective of toughness, and getting up time and again after getting popped. He also fits from the standpoint of being incredibly quick. He zips in and out of cuts, much like Brady’s former go-to guy."


------------

In comparison, Donald Jones has always been more comfortable on the outside. Here is Mike Reiss' take on it:

Patriots | Two WRs could compete for one spot

New England Patriots WRs Donald Jones and Michael Jenkins may have to compete for one roster spot during offseason workouts and training camp because of the additions of WRs Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce and Julian Edelman.

2013-05-02 11:57:26 | Source: ESPNBoston.com - Mike Reiss


Read more: Patriots | Two WRs could compete for one spot - NFL Hot off the Wire

 

[IcyPatriot]

Belichick and the coaches should read thru this thread and save himself a lot of work.

 

[supafly]

Belichick and the coaches should read thru this thread and save himself a lot of work.

As far as what specifically, Icy?

Are you referring to Edelman not being a 100% lock, or where TJ Moe may/may not fit in?

More importantly, couldn't you claim this to be true about pretty much ALL threads where posters voice their opinions?

 

[mgteich]

We're talking past each other. I agree with Reiss that Jones and Jenkins are competing for one roster spot. I list Edelman as a returner and emergency receiver. Who is replacing him, Moe?????

We will have four receivers: Amendola, Dobson, Boyce and some other. This 4th, 5th or 6th receiver, depending on whether you count Sters Slater and Edelman, could be Jones or Jenkins. In fact Jones or Jenkins might even be higher (as high as #2).

I think Moe making the team has little to due with him having a future as a backup slot receiver in 2013. If he is worth a developmental roster spot, he will be inactive in almost all games.

My BOTTOM LINE is that Jones and Jenkins are both more vulnerable than Edelman. If fact I could see neither making the roster, with Edelman simply being the #4 receiver.

This is now the second or third time that you've stated this, and I don't think you could honestly be any more incorrect. I think everyone in the world but you sees TJ Moe in the exact same vein as Wes Welker, Danny Amendola, and Julian Edelman---which means SLOT receiver.

Here is an article from the Herald:

Best in T.J. Moe won


"The University of Missouri wide receiver had a pro-day performance that prompted NFL draft guru Gil Brandt to utter the name Wes Welker by comparison.

Now, of course, the Pats have done their best to apply a tourniquet on that wound. They started with Danny Amendola, who was immediately signed in wake of Welker’s departure. But it’s hard to trust Amendola’s injury history. They also re-signed Julian Edelman. Ditto with his injury history.

Moe? He just might be an insurance policy, particularly the kind you can depend on. He’s another slot receiver who fits the Welker profile from the perspective of toughness, and getting up time and again after getting popped. He also fits from the standpoint of being incredibly quick. He zips in and out of cuts, much like Brady’s former go-to guy."


------------

In comparison, Donald Jones has always been more comfortable on the outside. Here is Mike Reiss' take on it:

Patriots | Two WRs could compete for one spot

New England Patriots WRs Donald Jones and Michael Jenkins may have to compete for one roster spot during offseason workouts and training camp because of the additions of WRs Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce and Julian Edelman.

2013-05-02 11:57:26 | Source: ESPNBoston.com - Mike Reiss


Read more: Patriots | Two WRs could compete for one spot - NFL Hot off the Wire