The Epic Season of Peyton Manning

[PatsFanSince74]

that is completely cow manure!

Perhaps, but it is part of the formula for Pass Rating that we cite vigorously whenever Tommy comes out on top of Peyton by using it.

Interesting that you left out my final comment when you quoted me: "(Not defending it, just reporting it.)" I'm sure that quoting my entire comment except for that disclaimer was an inadvertent error.

 

[Kontradiction]

That was a long time ago. The Mannings are whiny bunch by nature, but he's matured over the years. He's definitely a class act.

Super Bowl XLIV wasn't that long ago. Though, to his credit, I don't recall him throwing any of his teammates under the bus after the 2010 WC loss to the Jets.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

So here is how I think it should shake out.

1) If AP breaks the rushing record he should earn MVP
2) If AP passes 2,000 he should be highly considered for it and I might still give it to him.
3) If AP gets slowed by 2 tougher defenses coming up and fails to cross 2,000 then right now I feel it should go to Peyton based on stats and the record of his team.
4) However if AP fails to cross 2,000 and Peyton loses an easy one to Clevland or KC then it should be Brady's.

Looks fair to me

 

[aztecafut]

I think the pats should go in, if they go in, to denver a few days early. I think people underestimate the altitude difference. It takes a day or two to adjust even if you don't think you're really feeling it, you are.

I agree with you here because the altitude is definitely an advantage for the home team. I remember back in the 90's when the Bulls and the Jazz were both in their prime, Michael Jordan and the Bulls complained to the league about playing in Salt Lake City during the Finals because they claimed that the altitude gave the Jazz an unfair home court advantage.

But then again, even the altitude couldn't help the Jazz enough to beat the Bulls.

I'm hoping the same will be true again this time around when the Pats go to Denver to play them in the playoffs though.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I think the pats should go in, if they go in, to denver a few days early. I think people underestimate the altitude difference. It takes a day or two to adjust even if you don't think you're really feeling it, you are.

Living at high altitudes gives the home teams a potential advantage over Sea Level visitors. It also gives those same teams a stamina advantage when they play down at Sea Level.

And, if you think that the advantage is a myth, consider that in its six home games so far this year, Denver has outscored its opponents by an average of 11.5--10.2 in the First Half and 19.8--9.2 in the Second Half, when the effects of the altitude have begun to take their toll on visitors. Denver also has much better second half "stamina" in its away games, outscoring opponents 17.9--9.3 outside of the Mile High City.

Not for nothing does the International association that regulates these things NOT recognize records set at altitudes higher than 1,000 meters above Sea Level; Denver is at 1,600 or so meters.

A lot more than Champ Bailey/Ben Watson nightmares were fueling the concerns of those of us who did not want our guys to have to travel to Denver in January when the cold weather adds another level of complexity to the acclimation process.

 

[Deus Irae]

At the quarterback position alone, both Brady and Rodgers are having better years than Manning. If you're going to cut both of them out because of team records, then Matt Ryan needs to be ahead of Manning.

The only "epic" thing about Manning's season is the hype.

 

[condon84]

No insecurities here. I just took issue with referring to a guy who, in public, has thrown teammates under the bus for losses which were largely his fault a "class act".

Would you consider Belichick a "class act"?

 

[aztecafut]

Would you consider Belichick a "class act"?

Maybe I'm not understanding your question and I apologize if I'm not... But has Belichick ever thrown his players under the bus by blaming them instead of himself after a loss??

 

[BananaRepublican]

"Dome Peyton"

Is that like Global Warming Brady who hasn't played a cold weather game since the Titans of '04? Please don't tell me that 28 degrees is cold. I'll fetch Fran Tarkenton or Brett Favre to straighten you out.

All right, let's get serious: Ty Law beat Peyton in '03, not the cold weather. Ty, Jarvis and Rodney beat him. In fact, a better Patriots TEAM beat the Colts TEAM, and it was not one QB beating another. That's like NFL Myth 101 material (one QB beating the other).

Stop obsessing over GOAT and enjoy what Brady brings to the table. He has ascended to QB Heaven to join Joe and Johnny U already. Do you really need more than that?

 

[Mogamedogz]

Peterson is the MVP

Peyton is the Comeback Player of the Year

Brady might get the offensive player of the year NOD

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Perhaps, but it is part of the formula for Pass Rating that we cite vigorously whenever Tommy comes out on top of Peyton by using it.

Interesting that you left out my final comment when you quoted me: "(Not defending it, just reporting it.)" I'm sure that quoting my entire comment except for that disclaimer was an inadvertent error.

thanks for looking up that stat. what i meant was just that slightly over a yard less in both catagories put manning 4 points ahead of brady in the rating is completely bs.......so i didn't directed that personally to you or anything.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Peterson is the MVP

Peyton is the Comeback Player of the Year

Brady might get the offensive player of the year NOD

Peterson might well be the "true" MVP, but it's a QB league. AP won't be voted MVP unless he breaks ****erson's record and the Vikings go to the playoffs.

The NFL is about selling beer, pizza and cars on Sunday afternoon. Most viewers tune in to watch the QB's put up big numbers and make big plays. The MVP pick will reflect that reality, unless Peterson does something like break a record that has stood for over a quarter century.

Barring a major event in the next two weeks, Peyton will be MVP.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

thanks for looking up that stat. what i meant was just that slightly over a yard less in both catagories put manning 4 points ahead of brady in the rating is completely bs.......so i didn't directed that personally to you or anything.

I built my own Excel model for the QB rating just so I could understand how the rating works. a lot of people, including myself, agree that it is a flawed measure, but I'm not sure that CHFF or ESPN have done any better.

The four elements that are weighted to produce the rating are: Completions as a % of Attempts, TD's as a % of Attempts, INT's as a % of Attempts and Yards per Attempt. Each element is adjusted, presumably based on some analysis involving Standard Deviations around the Mean for the universe of players, and then weighted.

The model factors in that if they both threw, say 400 passes in a season and one guy averages "slightly over a yard" more than the other, he'd throw for 400 more yards. If the one player throws for 4,000 yards and the other 4,400, that's a ten percent and non trivial difference. The model tries to balance that by giving weight to completion percentage and TD and Pick percentages.

As I said, it's flawed, but I'm not sure that anyone has come up with anything better.

 

[Kontradiction]

Would you consider Belichick a "class act"?

When has Belichick ever thrown any of his coaches under the bus? Can you name me one player that he has ever specifically singled out to the media after a loss?

 

[Buchanty]

Unfortunately MVP has always been a popularity award. It is an award that is rarely based on highest merit. It may be nice to have but it does lack consistent meaning and can cause resentment among the team; after all if one player wins it because without him the rest of the team lacks merit, what does it say about the other players.

Having said that I do believe AP has helped his team more than other contenders. That would leave PM to get the CPOY and the MVM (Most Valuable Manning) award. Offensive Player of the year is a sop to the MVP runner up, since it is invariably someone on the O who wins the MVP. Making Defensive Player of The Year the most popular selection amongst the league defenses.

The ones that I pay more attention to are the rookie awards, because they do tend to be more based on merit, and are good pointers to future stars in the making. I am rooting for Kuechly in the DROY (that ankle injury took CJ out of the picture) and Doug Martin for OROY (though almost certainly it will be a QB, if so I'm rooting for Russell Wilson against the odds).

 

[condon84]

When has Belichick ever thrown any of his coaches under the bus? Can you name me one player that he has ever specifically singled out to the media after a loss?

I merely asked the question because you took issue with Manning being called a "class act". Belichick, in some peoples mind, is far from being considered a "class act", not for throwing players or coaches under the bus, but for other incidents that people took issue with.

 

[PATS16N0]

Every time I see any praise for Prince Peyton coming from a Patriot fan I want to gag.

Way too much to not like about the guy and his legacy is a complete result of playing in an EXPANSION division in the regular season and the ESPN propaganda machine.

Brady > Manning. Period.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

No insecurities here. I just took issue with referring to a guy who, in public, has thrown teammates under the bus for losses which were largely his fault a "class act".

Kontra. I read your posts a lot and you usually make a lot of sense. Help me here.

In the "under the bus" case are you referring to any incidents beyond the one incident where Peyton famously said after one particular game that "there were protection issues...we had issues on protection?" In that case he was stating what was obvious to anyone who had watched the game, but would, of course, have been better left unsaid by a QB.

However, I'm willing to give a highly competitive, HOF QB a pass on one comment made at a moment of frustration, so I'd appreciate some specific references to other times when he has done this and what he said, as this would color my own view of him, which I will say is pretty favorable on a personal level.

If your saying that your personal opinion of Peyton is that he isn't a "class act," that's another matter as it's a case of your own perception and I wouldn't be able to argue with it.

 

[Kontradiction]

Kontra. I read your posts a lot and you usually make a lot of sense. Help me here.

In the "under the bus" case are you referring to any incidents beyond the one incident where Peyton famously said after one particular game that "there were protection issues...we had issues on protection?" In that case he was stating what was obvious to anyone who had watched the game, but would, of course, have been better left unsaid by a QB.

However, I'm willing to give a highly competitive, HOF QB a pass on one comment made at a moment of frustration, so I'd appreciate some specific references to other times when he has done this and what he said, as this would color my own view of him, which I will say is pretty favorable on a personal level.

If your saying that your personal opinion of Peyton is that he isn't a "class act," that's another matter as it's a case of your own perception and I wouldn't be able to argue with it.

He also publicly faulted the WR for the route ran during Super Bowl XLIV when it came to that ill fated pick six.

 

[Sivy]

you know how in cartoons, that thing they do when there is a devil on one shoulder and an Angel on the other?

I picture brady having a conversation with the "chip" on one shoulder, and a slice of humble pie on the other.

Brady: Oh hey Chip, whats up?
Chip: Didnt get the mvp again, went to manning
Brady: We both played well, he deserves it.
Chip: No, he sucks, you're so much better.
Humble pie: Oh, its ok. Peyton is awesome, we just need to work harder is all
Chip: Shut up humble pie, you get enough attention. Tommy is clearly MVP
Brady..guuuuys.
Humble pie: we were down 31-3, thats not an mvp performance
Chip: Did you feel that extra weight on our shoudlers pie? That was Tommy carrying an entire team and scoring 28 points in a quarter.