Bunting Mock Draft 2/10

[MaineMan]

I called going for a CB last week.

In the Patriots' scheme, it makes sense if you can't find the DE or OLB who fills your needs. There are two stud CBs in this draft, and pairing him with McCourty--especially when Belichick refuses to flip his defenders from one side of the field to the other--is a good idea.

I too would go with Carimi later in the first.

This might not be as arbitrary as it seems. Probably more often than people realize, guys who are good at LCB aren't so much at RCB and vice versa.

 

[DaBruinz]

His draft for us is horrible!

17. Instead of: Prince Amukamara
Give me: Anthony Castonzo, or Aldon Smith, or Mike Pouncey or Nate Solder

28. Instead of: Benjamin Ijalana
Give me: Gabe Carimi, or Phil Taylor, or 17. Instead of: Prince Amukamara
Give me: Anthony Castonzo, or Aldon Smith, or Mike Pouncey or Nate Solder

28. Instead of: Benjamin Ijalana
Give me: Gabe Carimi, or Phil Taylor, or J.J. Watt depending on #17 pick

I prefer A. Smith and J.J. Watt depending on #17 pick

Just say "NO" on Castonzo.

 

[DaBruinz]

If Prince falls to 17, then I could easily see BB trading back a few spots to let someone else take him and add a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year.

 

[PATSNUTme]

NFP is high on Ijalana. I liked what I saw of the player in a few games that I watched. But I really don't have him as a 1st rounder. Low 2nd to high 3rd is where most have him and I agree with that for right now.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I don't think CB is a 1st round need for us but I dunno landing a stud like Amakamura would make this defense a nightmare to pass on. I'd have to consider it. But I don't think he makes it to 17. We really need DE/OLB/OL with our early picks. We can add HB/WR, CB/FS a bit later say late round 2, early round 3.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I don't think CB is a 1st round need for us but I dunno landing a stud like Amakamura would make this defense a nightmare to pass on. I'd have to consider it. But I don't think he makes it to 17. We really need DE/OLB/OL with our early picks. We can add HB/WR, CB/FS a bit later say late round 2, early round 3.

I believe Bill Belichick was quoted as saying, "You can never have too many good corners."

Here a few things that appear to be missing

Too much is made of the pass rush for the playoff game. If Wright, Pryor, T Warren come back, that's a pretty good starting point for pressuring the QB from the Dline. Their status are important in determining the need for DE.

The idea that some rookie is going to come in and go 15 sacks is not realistic. Don't get the, discount Cunningham but think a rookie will light it up, concept.

TBC should be a situational pass rusher. If we can get the overall personnel to allow him into that role, we are much better.

Against elite offense, the secondary is the key, not pressure.

If you visit various Steeler websites, it would provide an interesting perspective on the limitations of blitzing and pressure against ELITE offenses.

 

[MaineMan]

I believe Bill Belichick was quoted as saying, "You can never have too many good corners."

Here a few things that appear to be missing

Too much is made of the pass rush for the playoff game. If Wright, Pryor, T Warren come back, that's a pretty good starting point for pressuring the QB from the Dline. Their status are important in determining the need for DE.

The idea that some rookie is going to come in and go 15 sacks is not realistic. Don't get the, discount Cunningham but think a rookie will light it up, concept.

TBC should be a situational pass rusher. If we can get the overall personnel to allow him into that role, we are much better.

Against elite offense, the secondary is the key, not pressure.

If you visit various Steeler websites, it would provide an interesting perspective on the limitations of blitzing and pressure against ELITE offenses.

Agree with this.

A good pass rush can paw some kitty litter over the coverage-skill flaws of DBs and LBs, but it doesn't really make them better coverage guys. Even the best pass rush fails to get sufficient pressure a few times a game, thus exposing lack of coverage skills to exploitation even from a less-than-elite passing offense. It leaves you banking on the opposing QB screwing up or his pass-catchers screwing up or your coverage guys getting a good bounce of the ball. However, when those things don't go your way and the handful of failures of an elite rush results in a couple TDs on your less-than-elite secondary, what real difference did it make?

Against an elite passing offense, you probably need both elite coverage AND a good pass rush. Plus, you probably need a D-line who can virtually eliminate the chances of success running on 3rd down on their own, without any help from your would-be pass rushers.

 

[dryheat44]

Agree with this.

A good pass rush can paw some kitty litter over the coverage-skill flaws of DBs and LBs, but it doesn't really make them better coverage guys. Even the best pass rush fails to get sufficient pressure a few times a game, thus exposing lack of coverage skills to exploitation even from a less-than-elite passing offense. It leaves you banking on the opposing QB screwing up or his pass-catchers screwing up or your coverage guys getting a good bounce of the ball. However, when those things don't go your way and the handful of failures of an elite rush results in a couple TDs on your less-than-elite secondary, what real difference did it make?

Against an elite passing offense, you probably need both elite coverage AND a good pass rush. Plus, you probably need a D-line who can virtually eliminate the chances of success running on 3rd down on their own, without any help from your would-be pass rushers.

Unfortunately, there's only a couple Darrelle Revises out there who can cover a guy for 5-8 seconds. Outside of the truly elite, no db can cover a WR or TE for more than 4 seconds. If the pass rush can at least make the quarterback uncomfortable, move around a little bit, briefly take his eyes off his targets, knock him down occasionally, the secondary will do their job. That pressure just hasn't happened consistently enough in recent years. No pass rusher on the team requires help on a chip, let alone a double team, from the opposing offensive line. That needs to change.

I mean, it's not kitty litter, it's the reality of the situation, with all the pass rules favoring the offense. When the QB has time to throw, and throw it where and when he wants to, a WR good enough to be in the NFL is going to lose his coverage/find a hole 90+% of the time.

 

[everlong]

The play where Sanchez redirects Edwards in the playoff game is the perfect example. Butler had the coverage for a solid 5 seconds and nobody was in Sanchez's zip code. That's not on the corner in that situation.

 

[dryheat44]

The play where Sanchez redirects Edwards in the playoff game is the perfect example. Butler had the coverage for a solid 5 seconds and nobody was in Sanchez's zip code. That's not on the corner in that situation.

It seems to be a tradition that guys like Shaun Hill and Ryan Fitzpatrick have career days against us.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

The play where Sanchez redirects Edwards in the playoff game is the perfect example. Butler had the coverage for a solid 5 seconds and nobody was in Sanchez's zip code. That's not on the corner in that situation.

Again

Read my first point. T Warren, Wright, and Pryor are all capable of applying pressure. None of them played against the Jets.

I seriously don't get why it's so hard to understand that if your best players at doing something don't play; your team is going to get less of what they are best at.

If Warren/Wright/Pryor can come back healthy, the need for Dline that can apply pressure will be less than if none of them come back.

That's why if these guys come back full, don't be shocked over drafting a stud CB @ 17.

 

[Shelterdog]

If Warren/Wright/Pryor can come back healthy, the need for Dline that can apply pressure will be less than if none of them come back.

That's why if these guys come back full, don't be shocked over drafting a stud CB @ 17.

That doesn't follow.

Even if the defensive line isn't a big need, tons of other spots are a bigger need than corner. OLB, everywhere on the OL, RB, safety, even wideout. Why would we take a stud cornerback when we have two solid to extremely solid starters and three semi-decent or better backups? Nobody we draft at 17 is going to be better than DMC or Bodden.

 

[dryheat44]

That doesn't follow.

Even if the defensive line isn't a big need, tons of other spots are a bigger need than corner. OLB, everywhere on the OL, RB, safety, even wideout. Why would we take a stud cornerback when we have two solid to extremely solid starters and three semi-decent or better backups? Nobody we draft at 17 is going to be better than DMC or Bodden.

Players get hurt. Often. If a CB is the best value at 17, BB absolutely should draft one. I thought Arrington acquitted himself fairly well out there, but I don't want to be put in the position where we're one injury away from him being a starting CB again.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

That doesn't follow.

Even if the defensive line isn't a big need, tons of other spots are a bigger need than corner. OLB, everywhere on the OL, RB, safety, even wideout. Why would we take a stud cornerback when we have two solid to extremely solid starters and three semi-decent or better backups? Nobody we draft at 17 is going to be better than DMC or Bodden.

Let me guess, last year you probably asked, "McCourty, who?"

Ofcourse it follows, why? Look at BB's answer last year.....

"You can never have too many good CB's."

I am not saying draft the kid. However, if he is a stud and the other guys coveted by patsfans.com are not graded as studs; it's not shocking to see a CB drafted even if patsfans.com doesn't value CB as a need.

If your coach says you can never have too many CB's, you should never be shocked if a CB is drafted, anywhere. With BB, his words and philosphy and action do tend to jive.

 

[Shelterdog]

Players get hurt. Often. If a CB is the best value at 17, BB absolutely should draft one. I thought Arrington acquitted himself fairly well out there, but I don't want to be put in the position where we're one injury away from him being a starting CB again.

But you have limited resources and a lot of needs to fill.

Right now we're one injury away from Brad Hoyer, Thomas Clayton, Ohrnberger, LeVoir, Kyle Love, or Eric Moore starting and, as of this second, Wendell and Kazcur would be starting.

If you can draft Deion Sanders at 17, sure, but if a very good corner and an only slightly less good outside linebacker are available you have to look at the position where you have a huge need.

 

[Shelterdog]

Let me guess, last year you probably asked, "McCourty, who?"

Ofcourse it follows, why? Look at BB's answer last year.....

"You can never have too many good CB's."

I was fine with the McCourty pick; at the time we had one good corner (Bodden) and a bunch of question marks.

Now we have two good corners, and the question marks (Arrington and even Butler and Wilhite) played much better.

 

[everlong]

Read my first point. T Warren, Wright, and Pryor are all capable of applying pressure. None of them played against the Jets.

Warren .19 sacks/game
Pryor .02 SPG
Wright .18 SPG
Nincovich .16 SPG (as a Patriot)
TBC .27 SPG (as a Patriot)

The guys you named don't bring pressure.

Vrabel .38 SPG (as a Patriot)
Seymour .32 SPG (as a Patriot)
McGinist .46 SPG (as a Patriot)
Colvin .40 SPG (as a Patriot)

It's not all about sacks but I don't know of a site that has cumulative pressures. I think we can assume the bottom four also brought pressure. You don't need a Warren Sapp DL or Derrick Thomas OLB but you need guys who can at least situationally bring the heat. The Patriots right now have none of these types of players. Offenses have to account for and scheme to stop nobody in the passing game.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Warren .19 sacks/game
Pryor .02 SPG
Wright .18 SPG
Nincovich .16 SPG (as a Patriot)
TBC .27 SPG (as a Patriot)

The guys you named don't bring pressure.

Vrabel .38 SPG (as a Patriot)
Seymour .32 SPG (as a Patriot)
McGinist .46 SPG (as a Patriot)
Colvin .40 SPG (as a Patriot)

It's not all about sacks but I don't know of a site that has cumulative pressures. I think we can assume the bottom four also brought pressure. You don't need a Warren Sapp DL or Derrick Thomas OLB but you need guys who can at least situationally bring the heat. The Patriots right now have none of these types of players. Offenses have to account for and scheme to stop nobody in the passing game.

So basically your answer is to quote stats that's not all about and then say that you don't know of stats of pressure but then try to disprove but without stats.

Again, I don't care.

Mypoint was to explain why nobody should be shocked if a CB like this kid would be drafted.

 

[everlong]

I wouldn't be shocked if they drafted a CB if they thought he was the BPA however your prevailing point for a while now has been that the Patriots don't need a pass rusher. The stats were to prove a point that they do. I did put in the caveat that they don't include pressures to be balanced but the inference is if you're getting sacks you're probably getting some near misses along the way as well. Ditto with the Butler post. He had good coverage.

You get far to defensive and confrontational. All we have is a difference of opinion. No need not to keep it civil.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I was fine with the McCourty pick; at the time we had one good corner (Bodden) and a bunch of question marks.

Now we have two good corners, and the question marks (Arrington and even Butler and Wilhite) played much better.

I don't think you can ever have too many good corners.

Especially if your pass rushers are among the worst in football.