Mankins Days as Pat Over?

[IcyPatriot]

Holy cow!!! It's Steve from Fall River!!!

Yeah ... no doubt.

 

[reflexblue]

Holy cow!!! It's Steve from Fall River!!!

Oh Sh!t it probably is.

 

[Brarrell]

Samuel was Belichicks decision.
Samuel was not worth the money. Understanding that BB accpeted a dropoff at his position rather than oher dropoffs, or missed opportunities to improve at other positons.
In a Pollyanna world we could say we should have kept Samuel because he wasn't replaced with as good a player, but there are numerous other factors that are too interrelated to ignore.

For the love of god IT WAS A KRAFT DECISION and was pretty much confirmed by Jonathan Kraft on the radio with a give and take with Felger about a year ago when Felger kept hammering him and basically he said maybe if he "Samuel" had made that interception in that superbowl, he caught himself it was too late bingo! checkmate! your exposed. Look at this point it doesn't matter if they sign Mankins it doesn't matter the way the do business with their better players sucks and every dog has his day and their's is coming. I became a season ticket holder the day Parcell's came here but he knew what he was talking about when it came to the Krafts meddling, so you let Mankins go then what replace him with a draft pick They need to replace the center and the right guard thats how teams that have been successful against them attack them up the middle.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Yeah ... let's pay an all-pro guard who was exposed in the playoffs ... let's pay him top dollar for the all pro run blocker that he is. He's not getting paid and Belichick is smart enough not to pay him or any other non impact player top dollar.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yeah ... let's pay an all-pro guard who was exposed in the playoffs ... let's pay him top dollar for the all pro run blocker that he is. He's not getting paid and Belichick is smart enough not to pay him or any other non impact player top dollar.

how was it that mankins was exposed? if anything, it was connolly and koppen.

 

[Brarrell]

Yeah ... let's pay an all-pro guard who was exposed in the playoffs ... let's pay him top dollar for the all pro run blocker that he is. He's not getting paid and Belichick is smart enough not to pay him or any other non impact player top dollar.

They were willing to pay him 7 mil a year right so what are you talking about and if they franchise him it will be atleast 11 mil a year. Belichick doesn't control the money its the Krafts don't you get it. What do you think this CBA unrest is all about. The owners don't have to play a game this year and still get a check from the networks for 100 mil and this happens every year so why play any games except this time if they screw it up and with the economy the way it is they will pay the price. As far as NE fans we are like the the soap opera show the Days Of our Lives the sand clock is running and I will predict the Krafts will sell the team after they have siphoned as much as they can and move on.

 

[Ring 6]

For the love of god IT WAS A KRAFT DECISION and was pretty much confirmed by Jonathan Kraft on the radio with a give and take with Felger about a year ago when Felger kept hammering him and basically he said maybe if he "Samuel" had made that interception in that superbowl, he caught himself it was too late bingo! checkmate! your exposed. Look at this point it doesn't matter if they sign Mankins it doesn't matter the way the do business with their better players sucks and every dog has his day and their's is coming. I became a season ticket holder the day Parcell's came here but he knew what he was talking about when it came to the Krafts meddling, so you let Mankins go then what replace him with a draft pick They need to replace the center and the right guard thats how teams that have been successful against them attack them up the middle.

Allrighty then

 

[Banjo]

at some point, winning football games should be more important than just saving money.

 

[upstater1]

at some point, winning football games should be more important than just saving money.

Have you ever heard the term, salary cap?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Given that they've gotten rid of Samuel and Seymour, with terrible results, sarcasm regarding Mankins really doesn't hold up.

What exactly were the terrible results? We lost when it mattered most in 2007 with all three of these studs plus the once in a lifetime WR on the roster...failing to execute. We've lost since with one after another of them gone after similar failures. However in 2008 we weren't going to win anyway with Brady on IR for 15 weeks, and we weren't going to win in 2009 with Brady rehabbing from his ACL and Welker blowing his out and guys like Rodney and Tedy heading to the sidelines, and while we didn't win this year even with Brady turning in an MVP performance sans Moss, we had a $135M cap so it's ridiculous to think we could have fielded a team with any let alone all of them on it on top tier deals and done any better...because of the $35M+ in trade offs we'd have had to make to keep them.

What Kraft and Belichick have agreed on from the outset was the importance of maintaining long range perspective with the ultimate goal of fielding a competitive team every season. They have done that and more, but for some here nothing short of winning it all every season equates to terrible results. I chalk that up to arrogance, hype fed ignorance and lack of remotely rational perspective. Terrible results would be falling off to sub .500 oblivion and remaining there for a good long while because of a wildly mismanaged cap, coupled with a bloated roster and bad drafting. When these guy do that call me and I'll be right there with you biatching...

 

[Water Boy]

how was it that mankins was exposed? if anything, it was connolly and koppen.

I haven't watched a replay of the Jets game, but I do recall Troy Brown commenting on WEEI during the interview w/ Jaworski that he observed Mankins get blown 5 yards into the backfield on a play. With all the controversy surrounding Mankins, I'd love to see some one do a play by play review and give him an unbiased grade in the last 3 playoff losses. I don't think anyone can agrue that Mankins played well in the Super Bowl.

My opinion is that the Patriots should not break the bank to keep Mankins. The reports of the contract offers he had from the Pats seems reasonable. If Mankins wants 8 million a year, I would much rather see us use that money to go after a Hali, Woodley or Ngnata.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

For the love of god IT WAS A KRAFT DECISION and was pretty much confirmed by Jonathan Kraft on the radio with a give and take with Felger about a year ago when Felger kept hammering him and basically he said maybe if he "Samuel" had made that interception in that superbowl, he caught himself it was too late bingo! checkmate! your exposed. Look at this point it doesn't matter if they sign Mankins it doesn't matter the way the do business with their better players sucks and every dog has his day and their's is coming. I became a season ticket holder the day Parcell's came here but he knew what he was talking about when it came to the Krafts meddling, so you let Mankins go then what replace him with a draft pick They need to replace the center and the right guard thats how teams that have been successful against them attack them up the middle.

Wait a minute...I said that too...maybe it was my decision...LOL

Just because Bill didn't say it doesn't mean he didn't also realize it. He has final say on all football decisions. He may run numbers by the Krafts on extreme financial committments, but Asante wasn't even in that league. The Krafts aren't involved in contract negotiations. They set a budget as do all owners and no GM gets to ignore those or proceed without consultation. Asante wasn't a case of ownership refusing to ante up, it was a case of Bill determining a contract value point and refusing to exceed it. He has an economics degree you know, as well as some pretty fine talent evaluation chops. The Eagles have regretted giving 'Sante all that dough almost from day 1 because the player they got didn't turn out to be a truly elite consistent impact player. They hoped he would put their defense over the top. In the last 3 years it has taken a step back. There are lots of reasons why that happened, but overpaying for Asante is one of them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I haven't watched a replay of the Jets game, but I do recall Troy Brown commenting on WEEI during the interview w/ Jaworski that he observed Mankins get blown 5 yards into the backfield on a play. With all the controversy surrounding Mankins, I'd love to see some one do a play by play review and give him an unbiased grade in the last 3 playoff losses. I don't think anyone can agrue that Mankins played well in the Super Bowl.

My opinion is that the Patriots should not break the bank to keep Mankins. The reports of the contract offers he had from the Pats seems reasonable. If Mankins wants 8 million a year, I would much rather see us use that money to go after a Hali, Woodley or Ngnata.

I'm not going to go down the road of saying, 'Mankins stunk on this play and that play...' as a way of justifying his potential departure. He is a very, very good player and by most accounts, the offense is better with him there.

But as many have mentioned prior, what will the cost to retain him be- and not just financially. Due to budget reasons, by signing Mankins to a mega deal hamstring the team's ability to bring in impact players on defense that BB KNOWS will make the defense appreciably better? Don't know.

What I do know if that if a Mankins mega-deal means that they team cannot commit financial resources to sign Hali, Woodley or Ngnata (which I am doubtful that the team can get those players) then I am not in favor of singing Mankings.

Keep in mind that the team had guys like Mike Compton, Joe Andruzzi and Stephen Neal at guard and won Super Bowls. They can do it again.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

That's a crazy claim to even make. Not having Samuel has led to "quality" starters like Deltha O'Neal, along with the need to draft the position repeatedly.

O'Neal
Springs
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite
Bodden
McCourty

All that, and more, and it will still be at least until 2011 before the team can get a CB corps to equal 2007. That's just Samuel, alone, and doesn't get into all the problems that have been brought about by not having a suitable Seymour replacement. This is no longer even arguable by reasonable people.

Letting those two players go without having adequate replacements were two of the stupidest moves Belichick has made since joining the Patriots. As for the "pay" argument, you know that's nonsense.

Not having adequate replacements was a problem, I agree. But overpaying for a guy just because you don't have an adequate back-up isn't the answer either.

Asante got 6 years, $57M, with $20M guaranteed. And reports were he wanted 10 years, $100M with $30M guaranteed. We couldn't franchise him, so what exactly should we have done here? Signing him to even the Eagles deal would have crippled us in the future, including new deals for Brady and Wilfork.

As for Seymour, we still don't have a viable replacement. But realistically, we only would have had him in 2009, then either had to break the bank, trade him, or franchise him and risk losing Wilfork. In hindsight, I might have kept Seymour and taken a 3rd round comp pick when he left after 2009. But it still would only have been an extra year and I don't think we win with him anyways.

We got a 2011 1st while the Raiders got 4 sacks. The Raiders then franchised him for around $12.4M to get another 5.5 sacks. And people think Tully was overpaid at $2.8M for his 5 sacks.

You can't always have great back-ups in place in the salary cap era. Sometimes you have to draft a guy or pick up a FA and hope for the best. It's not ideal, but it's reality. Losing a guy without a back-up can hurt your franchise for a year or two. But signing guys to huge contracts out of desperation can ruin your franchise for 5 or 6 years.

 

[ATippett56]

Samuel was Belichicks decision.
Samuel was not worth the money. Understanding that BB accpeted a dropoff at his position rather than oher dropoffs, or missed opportunities to improve at other positons.
In a Pollyanna world we could say we should have kept Samuel because he wasn't replaced with as good a player, but there are numerous other factors that are too interrelated to ignore.

In 2007, the Patriots placed the franchise tag on Asante Samuel and backed up the Brink's truck to Adalius Thomas house. Adalius Thomas only provided one good year for the New England Patriots while Asante Samuel was still playing for the Eagles in 2010. Once the financial parameters are set with regard to the salary cap in 2011, the New England Patriots will determine whether Logan Mankin can be re-signed.

I would rather go with the youth movement at other positions on the New England Patriots roster rather than have Gerard Warren and Tully Banta-Cain linger around for another year and eat up valuable cap space. Besides, the New England Patriots have a huge hole at right guard and if the Patriots allow Logan Mankins to walk, the Patriots will have huge holes at both guard positions next year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In 2007, the Patriots placed the franchise tag on Asante Samuel and backed up the Brink's truck to Adalius Thomas house. Adalius Thomas only provided one good year for the New England Patriots while Asante Samuel was still playing for the Eagles in 2010. Once the financial parameters are set with regard to the salary cap in 2011, the New England Patriots will determine whether Logan Mankin can be re-signed.

I would rather go with the youth movement at other positions on the New England Patriots roster rather than have Gerard Warren and Tully Banta-Cain linger around for another year and eat up valuable cap space. Besides, the New England Patriots have a huge hole at right guard and if the Patriots allow Logan Mankins to walk, the Patriots will have huge holes at both guard positions next year.

Keep in mind that once Colvin got hurt vs Indy, AD moved out of the ILB position and assumed the OLB role and recorded 13 sacks in his next 19 games. He then got hurt, aged quickly and evolved into a complete jerk.

The signing was a bad one long-term, but short-term it was decent.

 

[ATippett56]

Keep in mind that once Colvin got hurt vs Indy, AD moved out of the ILB position and assumed the OLB role and recorded 13 sacks in his next 19 games. He then got hurt, aged quickly and evolved into a complete jerk.

The signing was a bad one long-term, but short-term it was decent.

The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Not only is Logan Mankins one of the best offensive guards in the NFL, he has been extremely durable. Besides, the New England Patriots have a huge hole at right offensive guard and no one currently on the New England Patriots roster can be trusted, if you concur with my analysis:

Neal - 34 years old, injury prone
Kaczur - 31 years old, recovering from back surgery
Connolly - 28 years old, abused in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game

 

[ATippett56]

What I do know if that if a Mankins mega-deal means that they team cannot commit financial resources to sign Hali, Woodley or Ngnata (which I am doubtful that the team can get those players) then I am not in favor of signing Mankins.

At worst the following players will be franchised by their respective teams:

Hali - Chiefs
Ngata - Ravens
Woodley - Steelers

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's a crazy claim to even make. Not having Samuel has led to "quality" starters like Deltha O'Neal, along with the need to draft the position repeatedly.

O'Neal
Springs
Butler
Wheatley
Wilhite
Bodden
McCourty

All that, and more, and it will still be at least until 2011 before the team can get a CB corps to equal 2007. That's just Samuel, alone, and doesn't get into all the problems that have been brought about by not having a suitable Seymour replacement. This is no longer even arguable by reasonable people.

Letting those two players go without having adequate replacements were two of the stupidest moves Belichick has made since joining the Patriots. As for the "pay" argument, you know that's nonsense.

Just for the record, Deltha played opposite Samuel...who had replaced an injured and soon departed Law, and who that year most pundits claimed wasn't worth a bucket of used balls in a secondary that was beyond underwhelming absent an injured Harrison. You can't have forgotten that EHIII took his starting job away from him in camp in 2006 before he fractured that wrist bone... If you wanted him re-signed at any cost you really don't know what you're babbling about. Thank God Bill does.

And I don't know what your issue is with signing Bodden or drafting McCourty. Do you contend that if we always just resigned everyone we wouldn't have to replace anyone and we'd just win every superbowl?

 

[RobertWeathers]

The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Not only is Logan Mankins one of the best offensive guards in the NFL, he has been extremely durable. Besides, the New England Patriots have a huge hole at right offensive guard and no one currently on the New England Patriots roster can be trusted, if you concur with my analysis:

Neal - 34 years old, injury prone
Kaczur - 31 years old, recovering from back surgery
Connolly - 28 years old, abused in the 2010 AFC Divisional Playoff game

I do agree with your analysis on those players. I think where we may differ is where the #1 priority on this team lies. Keeping Mankins certainly is the prudent thing to do. TBC is small dollars. Warren is small dollars. If they stayed or left I don't think they would have a huge impact either way.

IMO, the #1 priority on this team is acquiring 2-3 impact front 7 defensive players. If they can nail those players down and commit to a running game that opposing defenses will respect on 3rd and 3 and no one that runs when the score is 31-3 Pats in the 3rd qtr, then there is no reason why this team cannot win a SB. With that said, to run the ball as effectively as I mention you do need a guy like Logan Mankins to do it. However, this team won with Joe Andruzzi, Neal and Mike Compton at G so it is possible.