Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

Brady plays in the greatest system of all-time. He's a great quarterback, he throws the ball well, has poise and accuracy, and has had plenty of success.
But...
Ultimately, he is somewhat a puppet of BB, plays consistantly with some of the best recievers in the game. Has AMAZING TE's to dump it off to if all else fails, yet does little to direct or lead his team. In his case, that's the coaches job. There is a reason Matt Cassell looked all pro on a stacked team and that is ANY competent QB can play like a hall of famer on that team.
Whereas...
Manning has played on 2 teams with what started out as unproven teammates, especially at the WR position, and MADE them into household names with HIS system. His offense has always been prolific despite major roster changes and changing teams and he would have been more successful in the past if it werent for some really bad Colts defenses.
Alas,
Most of the knocks against Brady arent his fault, but certainly deminish the argument for him being in the GOAT conversation.

Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

Brady plays in the greatest system of all-time. He's a great quarterback, he throws the ball well, has poise and accuracy, and has had plenty of success.
But...
Ultimately, he is somewhat a puppet of BB, plays consistantly with some of the best recievers in the game. Has AMAZING TE's to dump it off to if all else fails, yet does little to direct or lead his team. In his case, that's the coaches job. There is a reason Matt Cassell looked all pro on a stacked team and that is ANY competent QB can play like a hall of famer on that team.
Whereas...
Manning has played on 2 teams with what started out as unproven teammates, especially at the WR position, and MADE them into household names with HIS system. His offense has always been prolific despite major roster changes and changing teams and he would have been more successful in the past if it werent for some really bad Colts defenses.
Alas,
Most of the knocks against Brady arent his fault, but certainly deminish the argument for him being in the GOAT conversation.

Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

Brady plays in the greatest system of all-time. He's a great quarterback, he throws the ball well, has poise and accuracy, and has had plenty of success.
But...
Ultimately, he is somewhat a puppet of BB, plays consistantly with some of the best recievers in the game. Has AMAZING TE's to dump it off to if all else fails, yet does little to direct or lead his team. In his case, that's the coaches job. There is a reason Matt Cassell looked all pro on a stacked team and that is ANY competent QB can play like a hall of famer on that team.
Whereas...
Manning has played on 2 teams with what started out as unproven teammates, especially at the WR position, and MADE them into household names with HIS system. His offense has always been prolific despite major roster changes and changing teams and he would have been more successful in the past if it werent for some really bad Colts defenses.
Alas,
Most of the knocks against Brady arent his fault, but certainly deminish the argument for him being in the GOAT conversation.

Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

This is circular logic, to answer this comment I'll refer you back to broncosgc's comment:


and add this... The Pat's didnt pull their starters in the 4th vs the Broncos. They never do, they are known running up the score for a reason.

Originally Posted by patfanken

Well I thought that my post earlier this afternoon would be a nice finish to a thread I thought had gone on too long already. Clearly I was mistaken. So about 8 pages later, I decided if you can't beat them, join them. Here is my contribution to the statistical barrage.

I know Denver fans are putting a great deal of hope of an eventual victory over the Pats on more than Peyton Manning. And why not? According to NFL.com, the Broncos were ranked #2 in total defense, and with the Pats ranking #25 against Denver's 4th ranked offense, who wouldn't be confident.

But I want to offer these facts. The Pats have played d games against 5 teams who rank in the top 10 in total defense. (Texans, Broncos, Niners, Seahawks, and Jets ) In those games against the top defenses in the league the Pats scored, (in order of appearance) 31, 23, 29, 49, 42, and 34.

The point is that the Pats have done VERY well (especially in the second half of the season) against some of the BEST defenses in the league. I don't doubt the quality of Denver defense,.....Neither did I doubt the quality of the Niner, Texan, and Jets defenses.

The other point concerns the Denver home field advantage. There is no doubt that its a very difficult place to come in and win. However that advantage could very quickly be mitigated by a bad weather day. Tom Brady is arguably the best bad weather QB in the history of game. Peyton Manning has played most of his games in a dome, and has had some very bad experiences in bad weather. Thus far this season (IIRC) Manning hasn't had to play in bad weather.

If the 2 teams play, it will be on January 21st. Denver fans can tell us what the weather is likely to be mid winter in Denver. We both know it's at best 50-50 that it will be a nice day. And if it isn't that home field advantage will quickly become a home field DIS-advantage. Think about it.

Originally Posted by Soadisthebest

are you honestly this dumb or are you trolling?

Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

Denver averages 320 days of sunshine a year. On top of that there have only been 9 snow games in Denver in the last 8 years. Plus Manning is playing BETTER with a glove on his hand that he has been wearing to adapt to the cold. (More grip+Less wobble and more accuracy and velocity)

Originally Posted by NextGenBronco

Denver averages 320 days of sunshine a year. On top of that there have only been 9 snow games in Denver in the last 8 years. Plus Manning is playing BETTER with a glove on his hand that he has been wearing to adapt to the cold. (More grip+Less wobble and more accuracy and velocity)

Originally Posted by Soadisthebest

are you honestly this dumb or are you trolling?

Originally Posted by SVN

This really gets me mad .

First.. have you seen the receivers and TE's and RB's Brady had until 2007? The famous AFCCG when manning finally beat brady can you name brady's WR's ?
They let deion branch go that season so he had , reche caldwell,jabaar gaffeny and doug gabriel as his receivers.
Manning with the colts ALWAYS had #1 WR and TE and RBs. Thats the reason their Defense sucked and ST sucked because they never had any money for those areas.
And whats more, almost all of manning's playoff losses are because the colts offense wet the bed ,not because of his defense. They scored 3!!! pts vs the pats missing all their secondary in foxboro.
This whole system QB is whole lot of bull**** because we see manning moving around like a chicken calling plays at LOC and brady not doing it so he must be in a system. Guess what, montana was in the bill walsh system and bradshaw was in the chuck knoll system and even Manning runs the colts system. Tell me which QB doesnt have a system ? Mark sanchez maybe ?
And here is more. Look at the pats offense from 2003 till now.




Run the ball and play defense -no problem, brady does.
Trade your #1 WR to seattle and have a bunch of scrub WR's on your team and throw it to the open guy -brady did it in 2006.
Scrap the whole offense and bring a spread/shotgun offense with moss and welker -brady did it.
Let moss go in the MIDDLE OF THE SEASON!! and turn to short passing game - brady did it.
Bring in two tightends and change the offense again - brady did it .
All this with ever changing OC's !
And to address the matt cassel thing.Ironically the thread title does that. We played the AFC west and NFC west that year. Two of the worst conf that season.
So all due respect please shut the hell up about this theory of system qb and great talent he has had. Just go back in history and check the facts. If anything, he has not played in the same system for more than 1 or 2 seasons at all.