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Old 05-13-2012, 09:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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Originally Posted by Elijah View Post
I'm as big a fan of Fletcher as anyone, but is he really that flexible on defense? I've only seen him play ILB in a 3-4 or MLB in a 4-3. It looks like he just replaces Spikes on passing downs.
I think Fletcher's very versatile. He's fluid enough that he can be used in coverage situations, as you note. The Pats used him to spy Joe Flacco in the 2010 game against the Ravens, and he made several key plays. Besides ILB they've used him at 4-3 SAM in a similar role to Rob Ninkovich. And they've used him some at DE. Greg Knopping even noted that late last year the Pats used Fletcher at DT on third down in sub packages:

Sitting Down with Patriots LB Dane Fletcher - Pats Pulpit

The Pats also used Fletcher some at fullback last year:

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/fo...sh-versatility

Richard Hill of Pats' Pulpit and Mike Dussault of Pats' Propoganda discussed some of Fletcher's versatility and potential at OLB:

The Dane Fletcher Experience - Pats Pulpit
dane fletcher spy - Google Search

I had great hopes for Fletcher going into 2011 and at the beginning of the season I thought he had passed Brandon Spikes on the depth chart. Then his thumb injury really held him back, and Spikes clearly provided a big boost to the defense when he returned. But I still think that Fletcher could be a very valuable asset to the defense. I'd call him pretty versatile, myself.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

If the Patriots defense shows any ability to stop a freaking pass, opponents will begin running the ball more in order to chew up clock and limit the offense's possessions rather than trying to outscore the Patriots, and the base will be on the field more often.

Also, a fair amount of what has been done defensively in the past couple of seasons, such as moving Wilfork up and down the line, or playing an extremely passive game in the defensive backfield, has been done in order to cover up weaknesses more than play to strengths. As of now, some of that will have to continue, since the D-line is likely still a problem. Hopefully those days will at least be gone as far as the back seven goes.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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Originally Posted by Fencer View Post
Right.

For once, we agree.
Oh, I think we agree a lot more than that. There is just no reason to discuss what we agree on, so our discussions are about what we don't.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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Originally Posted by mayoclinic View Post
I think Fletcher's very versatile. He's fluid enough that he can be used in coverage situations, as you note. The Pats used him to spy Joe Flacco in the 2010 game against the Ravens, and he made several key plays. Besides ILB they've used him at 4-3 SAM in a similar role to Rob Ninkovich. And they've used him some at DE. Greg Knopping even noted that late last year the Pats used Fletcher at DT on third down in sub packages:

Sitting Down with Patriots LB Dane Fletcher - Pats Pulpit

The Pats also used Fletcher some at fullback last year:

patriots - Dane Fletcher, Thomas Welch latest to flash versatility with Patriots - WEEI | Christopher Price

Richard Hill of Pats' Pulpit and Mike Dussault of Pats' Propoganda discussed some of Fletcher's versatility and potential at OLB:

The Dane Fletcher Experience - Pats Pulpit
dane fletcher spy - Google Search

I had great hopes for Fletcher going into 2011 and at the beginning of the season I thought he had passed Brandon Spikes on the depth chart. Then his thumb injury really held him back, and Spikes clearly provided a big boost to the defense when he returned. But I still think that Fletcher could be a very valuable asset to the defense. I'd call him pretty versatile, myself.
Good links on Fletcher and his potential. Thank you.

FWIW--What is your personal opinion on why he was replaced by Tracy White as a starter in the SB? Was it simply due to his injured status not being 100% capable yet, or was it more due to his struggles with some of the defensive man coverage schemes with the LB's?

I suppose that I would go for a combo of both answers for my explanation, obviously leaning more towards the feeling that White may have been the better man (or at least Belichick thought so) to help with some of the bracketing that took place with Cruz and the man coverage on the TE/RB.

Regardless, I can't think back to how many snaps Fletcher received in the 2 playoff games prior to that, but I truly expected him in the SB rather than Tracy White. I questioned that move (right or wrong on my part) from the beginning of the game...especially after they marched down the field and took that 9-0 lead.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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If the Patriots defense shows any ability to stop a freaking pass, opponents will begin running the ball more in order to chew up clock and limit the offense's possessions rather than trying to outscore the Patriots, and the base will be on the field more often.
Actually, if the Patriots' defense improves significantly, then opponents will be playing from behind even more than they have been.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:48 AM   #26
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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Originally Posted by Deus Irae View Post
.

Also, a fair amount of what has been done defensively in the past couple of seasons, such as moving Wilfork up and down the line, or playing an extremely passive game in the defensive backfield, has been done in order to cover up weaknesses more than play to strengths. As of now, some of that will have to continue, since the D-line is likely still a problem. Hopefully those days will at least be gone as far as the back seven goes.
I think there was likely always be some type of masking that goes on to cover up weaknesses in certain situations, even for some of the better defenses in the league. 'How much' masking will be the main question this season. As you said, hopefully the second and third lines of defense will be much more improved, and the injury bug will miss us a bit this year.

I think some of that will depend on the weakness that you bring up, which currently appears to be the front line, obviously due to talent and overall depth.

Some of that speculation and possible severity of said problem will probably depend on exactly 'where' we see certain guys line up. As of now, I am having some trouble trying to determine how to classify guys in the base defense, although we certainly have some clues, opinions, and past patterns to go on.

Of course where those players will line up will also change based on the fact that we will likely continue to play sub defense in about 2/3rds of the formations.

In other words, guys like Bequette, Jones etc may be able to contribute some as pure base DE's, and that is where I am having problems speculating just how severe the defensive line problem may be.

At any rate, the added depth, talent, youth, and competition should make for a better defense overall; and as you pointed out, the secondary should also be much more capable in the 2012 season---barring too many injuries.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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Actually, if the Patriots' defense improves significantly, then opponents will be playing from behind even more than they have been.
One would assume that the opponents will continue to try and attack through the air, at least until enough of a pattern has emerged that makes them think twice.

Of course the defense will always have to be flexible enough to be able to stop both, and we saw some capable run defense at times throughout last season; just not with enough consistency.

I think that the defense is much improved compared to where they were in the first 6 games of last yr, although I have somewhat of a biased opinion since I thought that they really came on nicely towards the end of the season.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

Of the Front 6, at most 2 have to be natural interior linemen. The rest can be natural LBs or rush specialists. And it can even be as low as 1, either because it's a dime package, or because somebody like Jones slides inside, or simply because it's a 3-3-5.

So interior DL in the sub package are pretty well-covered if Wilfork can go all game again.
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:30 AM   #29
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Default Re: How will the Front 6 look next season?

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So interior DL in the sub package are pretty well-covered if Wilfork can go all game again.
We got lucky with his health last year but it can't be a good idea to keep running him into the ground like that.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #30
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Of the Front 6, at most 2 have to be natural interior linemen. The rest can be natural LBs or rush specialists. And it can even be as low as 1, either because it's a dime package, or because somebody like Jones slides inside, or simply because it's a 3-3-5.

So interior DL in the sub package are pretty well-covered if Wilfork can go all game again.
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We got lucky with his health last year but it can't be a good idea to keep running him into the ground like that.
I agree with both you you. Wilfork is the key to it all, but we can't keep him playing 86% of the defensive snaps and assume he won't get banged up, worn down, or injured. That's part of why I wanted someone like Brockers, Poe or Ta'amu in the draft, and why I want a big DT as my top priority for 2013.

With 2 studs in the middle it frees up the "natural LBs or rush specialists" to do so many things, and it allows BB to keep everyone fresh with a rotation. That's part of why I was so excited about the potential for Albert Haynesworth last year, and why I wanted the Pats to consider signing a FA like Aubrayo Franklin or Shaun Rogers. I agree that we'll sometimes see Jones slide inside on passing situations. Love, Warren, Pryor and Fanene should all get a fair amount of playing time, but there's really no one else who can do what Wilfork can, and that's a risk.
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