Specter on Limbaugh show: "There was filming" - Page 11 - New England Patriots Forums

flasox27 · 03-26-2008, 05:57 PM

Fanetic.
A couple of points:
You are under the illusion that the New England fans care what the media and their weak minded followers think. At this stage of the game there is literally nothing that can be done to change the opinion of the morons out there thanks to the Incompetence and bias of Goodell.
You are also under the illusion that the blowhard from Comcast has any authority in the Senate to do anything. He is the minority member of the committee. For anything to be done in the Committee the Chairman Leahy from Vermont and the senior democrat Kennedy from Massachusetts have to go along. Do you really think that they will sign onto Specter witch hunt. If you have realized it both Senators are fron New England.
You are finaly under the illusion that Walsh will have any credibilitywhen and if he talks.By the time it comes to that he will be known as a thief and a liar and will be awaiting prosecution in Massachusetts cout for illegal taping which is a felony.

tdw777 · 03-26-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballFanetic

.if you think my views are abnormal on this in terms of how fans of the other 31 teams in the League view this I invite you to go and ask them. Visit another team's message board and ask what they think should happen if Walsh turns out to have a copy of the SB walkthrough tape. I strongly suspect you won't like the answer you get.....

I would say that right about now most NE fans really don't give a rats $ss about what the other 31 teams fans have to say.

flasox27 · 03-26-2008, 06:12 PM

Amen, brother

tdw777 · 03-26-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flasox27

Fanetic.
A couple of points:
You are under the illusion that the New England fans care what the media and their weak minded followers think. At this stage of the game there is literally nothing that can be done to change the opinion of the morons out there thanks to the Incompetence and bias of Goodell.
You are also under the illusion that the blowhard from Comcast has any authority in the Senate to do anything. He is the minority member of the committee. For anything to be done in the Committee the Chairman Leahy from Vermont and the senior democrat Kennedy from Massachusetts have to go along. Do you really think that they will sign onto Specter witch hunt. If you have realized it both Senators are fron New England.
You are finaly under the illusion that Walsh will have any credibilitywhen and if he talks.By the time it comes to that he will be known as a thief and a liar and will be awaiting prosecution in Massachusetts cout for illegal taping which is a felony.

what he said

flasox27 · 03-26-2008, 06:47 PM

What do you mean?

BSR · 03-27-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballFanetic

You may be right on the League not wanting to find anything and I agree they will do all they can to minimize it, but I think your analysis is a bit of wishful thinking on how this goes away. First, after what happened with destroying evidence the first time around, there's no way Goodell could get away with such a high-handed approach this time as to have no transparency with the process here.

Its not wishful thinking at all. How transparent was he with the tampering investigation between the 49ers and Bears? There was no transparency. Currently nobody really knows what evidence and the full extent of the tampering. The only wishful thinking is on the part of the media and some odd ball fans that think they are going to get some circus O.J.-like trial that they can latch on to. Its not going to happen.

Quote:

As we've already seen, the press would have a field day with that and average fans of every team but NE would be all over that like flies on you know what.

"They would be all over that"? What does that even mean? If they issue a statement similar to the one I presented what are you going to do?

Quote:

I think his past handling of this is really going to come back and bite him here. Similarly, no way do fans or the press, much less Sen. Specter, who will still be out there for all of this, let him get away with putting an effective gag order on Walsh. This isn't going away until we all hear what Mr. Walsh has to say, straight from him.

That might be your hope, but that isn't necessarily true. There are a number of senarios where the issue is resolved and Walsh never talks. In fact, those are the most likely senarios. That is what will benefit those with the most power here. If Specter really could have done something to force their hand, don't you think he would have by now?

Quote:

One thing I'm a bit surprised about here is that it seems like many folks here just want this to somehow magically go away. As fans of the team that's been accused of cheating, don't you all want to have your name cleared? The only way that will happen is for Walsh to come forward with all he has and for that to turn out to be a big pile of nothing--anything less and this doesn't go away. I, for one, out of curiousity on all this, very much want to see what, if anything, Mr. Walsh has. It may be something, it may be nothing, but we need to know what it is and hear it from him, not another "nothing to see here, just move along."

I am sure you were also hanging on every pearl of wisdom dropped by the estimable Kato Kaetlin as well. Some of us actually looked into his background and can recognize a fraud and a charlatan for what his is. This isn't the type of guy you want to stake your reputation or fortune on.

***FootballFanetic*** · 03-27-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSR

Its not wishful thinking at all. How transparent was he with the tampering investigation between the 49ers and Bears? There was no transparency. Currently nobody really knows what evidence and the full extent of the tampering. The only wishful thinking is on the part of the media and some odd ball fans that think they are going to get some circus O.J.-like trial that they can latch on to. Its not going to happen.

"They would be all over that"? What does that even mean? If they issue a statement similar to the one I presented what are you going to do?

That might be your hope, but that isn't necessarily true. There are a number of senarios where the issue is resolved and Walsh never talks. In fact, those are the most likely senarios. That is what will benefit those with the most power here. If Specter really could have done something to force their hand, don't you think he would have by now?

I am sure you were also hanging on every pearl of wisdom dropped by the estimable Kato Kaetlin as well. Some of us actually looked into his background and can recognize a fraud and a charlatan for what his is. This isn't the type of guy you want to stake your reputation or fortune on.

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years). NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear. Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

BrianPat · 03-27-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballFanetic

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years). NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear. Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

Personally, I could care what fans of other teams think ! Also, I think the concept that MOST fans think this way is incorrect. I think the fans that tend to complain in the first place are the loudest anyway, so now its perceived their position is the position of all the other fans out there. It's funny, here in Pittsburgh, most I've spoken too could care less at this point !

flasox27 · 03-27-2008, 11:31 AM

Fenetic
Keep in mind 2 things.
Regardless of what Walsh does or says the media will continue to attack the Pats and the idiots that believe them will continue to believe them. So putting it behind us is not an option.
Most Pats fans would like to see Walsh talk, because he will be steamrolled by the Pats attorneys and then find himself on trial in Massachusetts for iilegal taping of conversations. There would be a very good chance of him winding up in Walpole where they don't have need of an assistant golf pro.

***jmt57*** · 03-27-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballFanetic

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years).

That is certainly a possibility, but in my opinion no matter what the outcome is, the NFL's popularity will not dwindle. Last year fans turned out in record numbers. Some wanted to witness perfection, and others were hoping for the team they hated to lose. The NFL is entertainment, and all good theatre needs a villain. The Raiders had become irrelevant and fans root for the underdog to win. The Patriots had won three championships with a coach who shows little emotion in public; they were the perfect villain. The more the media talked about it, the more the mob mentality of a witch hunt took over. It was the perfect storm for big ratings when the team went through the 18 games without a loss.

Quote:

NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear.

Most message boards are not a very good representation of an NFL team's fans. Does the typical NFL fan sound like the people who post on espn? Thankfully, no. Is a Colts fan going to go on their message board and defend the Patriots? Of course not, because it's not a big issue to him, and if he does try to make a point he'll get shouted down with rhetoric. There are a few good message boards out there but most tend to get over run with utter nonsense by punks full of false bravado and no original thought. The ones I have seen that do have members that speak intelligently about the game and their team don't even bring up Spygate.

Quote:

Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

Yes, Goodell has painted himself into a corner. However, if he comes down hard on the Patriots based on hearsay, he could end up being sued by Kraft or BB. I do think that most Pats fans do want Walsh to come forward because the belief is that he has nothing new. They don't want him to come forward under his terms - total indemnification - which would allow him to write a book full of lies with no worries about libel and slander law suits.