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Old 09-10-2010, 09:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

I liked what I saw in Brace. The question is whether or not that was an aberration. If it wasn't, he'll be a reliable defensive end. As always Wilfork is stout up the middle against the run. Wright is reliable as a pass rusher, but is a liability against the run. If the Bengals are going to target an area on our defense, it will be RDE, or the area that Wright or Warren line up in.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

Historically, when we struggle vs the run, it is inside runs and cut backs or counters that we have a hard time with.

I can't remember the Patriots under BB ever really getting pounded outside the Ts consistently.

It fits the system, and makes sense. There is more help the farther you get from the Center. The 2 gap doesnt only mean that each player covers 2 gaps, but it also means 2 players cover each gap. The sideline becomes the second player on the outside gap, the sweep.

The design of the defense is to keep the RB moving laterally, and the longer that happens the more pursuit arrives. By nature the wider the play, the slower it gets to the los and the secondary reaches the point of attack much closer to the los.

While losing contain is an issue with the OLBs, they are the players in the front 7 that have the least impact good or bad on the running game. Addtionally, they are blocked sometimes by pulling Gs but often by FBs or TEs, so they are facing less stout blockers than the rest of the front 7.
The ILBs are absolutely critical to stopping the run.

ILB in our system is harder, more physically demanding and less able to find glory than in any other system, and its not even close. While the Raven D revolves around preventing blockers from getting to Ray Lewis (same with SF and Willis) our defense requires the ILB to be one on one with a 300 lb G all day, and stay home between the C and T on his side until the cutback is exhausted before pursuing. Its a thankless job, but on run D probably the most important.

I dont need to say much about Wilfork, we all know what he brings.

I think that the way the NFL has evolved, our DEs should be dominant run defenders. They are playing 2 gap against Ts who are built to pass block. There are very few mauling OTs out there, finesse, quickness and pass blocking is the priority they are bred for. A 320 lb DE should control his area of the field effectively, because they are not going to be double teamed, there just arent enough blockers to do so.

As far as our team looks, I see it this way.

I am very confident with run defense inside the Ts. The inside 3 are very effective. We will continue to hear complaints about Mayo not playing like Lewis or Willis from fans who don't understand what his assignment is but he will continue to team with Wilfork and whoever his DE is to control the area fron C to T very well. Spikes is also a great fit for that job.

At DE Brace showed me in preseason that he is exactly the physical force I described above to handle todays pass blocking favored OT. Gerard Warren certainly has the bulk and strength to control OTs as well, however I have not been impressed with his ability to disengage the blocker to make the play in the small sample we have seen (although not holding the point of attack is the cardinal sin, and not disengaging well is a much less severe issue to survive) and it seems to be in his blood to want to abandon 2gap duties and try to penetrate. I see Wright as a solid player who needs to keep excellent technique discipline to not be overpowered and who is inconsistent with technique discipline.

One very, very crtical part of run D IMO is short yardage. 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, goalline. I think out of everything about a defense this is the one area we are least consistent year to year. Franlkly we either own those situations or struggle very badly. I am encouraged that we may have one of those seasons where we own short yardage because of the bulk of our DL. We are bigger on the DL, and in reserve DL than I ever remember outside of maybe Ted Washington being bigger by himself than any other DL

Those situations are so important to run D because a 3rd and inches stuff is move valuable than a sack and almost as valuable as a turnover.

Overall, I think our run D will be improved. I am not worried about inside run D, which is the most critical, given, again, that when we have been weak, it has always been inside.

I am not concerned about the sweep/stretch because it is by far the hardest area of the field to run against a 2gap 34 D. Even if our weakest players are there, it will still be a difficult way for teams to exploit us.

The most questionable area will be the runs off tackle, outside of the DE, and inside of the OLB, including the 'stretch' play cut up in that area, and the counter traps. How we defend that area will probably define how good our overall run D is. With quick and active ILBs there is better support for that area, but the point of attack is the biggest unknown. Is Brace healthy? Is he ready to play full time? Can he play at his preseason level for full games? How will Warren address the questions about him? How much will Wright be needed? Can Pryor play the run at all if needed?
How will the OLBs play that strong OT run, handling a pulling G, a trap, a stretch play cut up inside them? Other than TBC (who did a pretty good job last year) we really havent seen enough to know.

Last edited by jmt57; 09-10-2010 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

You've set the key questions.
1) Will G. Warren or Brace help Wilfork seal the middle, especially on short yardage.
2) Will any of linebackers be capable of stopping off-tackle plays and containing sweeps?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJohnson View Post
Historically, when we struggle vs the run, it is inside runs and cut backs or counters that we have a hard time with.

I can't remember the Patriots under BB ever really getting pounded outside the Ts consistently.

It fits the system, and makes sense. There is more help the farther you get from the Center. The 2 gap doesnt only mean that each player covers 2 gaps, but it also means 2 players cover each gap. The sideline becomes the second player on the outside gap, the sweep.

The design of the defense is to keep the RB moving laterally, and the longer that happens the more pursuit arrives. By nature the wider the play, the slower it gets to the los and the secondary reaches the point of attack much closer to the los.

While losing contain is an issue with the OLBs, they are the players in the front 7 that have the least impact good or bad on the running game. Addtionally, they are blocked sometimes by pulling Gs but often by FBs or TEs, so they are facing less stout blockers than the rest of the front 7.
The ILBs are absolutely critical to stopping the run.

ILB in our system is harder, more physically demanding and less able to find glory than in any other system, and its not even close. While the Raven D revolves around preventing blockers from getting to Ray Lewis (same with SF and Willis) our defense requires the ILB to be one on one with a 300 lb G all day, and stay home between the C and T on his side until the cutback is exhausted before pursuing. Its a thankless job, but on run D probably the most important.

I dont need to say much about Wilfork, we all know what he brings.

I think that the way the NFL has evolved, our DEs should be dominant run defenders. They are playing 2 gap against Ts who are built to pass block. There are very few mauling OTs out there, finesse, quickness and pass blocking is the priority they are bred for. A 320 lb DE should control his area of the field effectively, because they are not going to be double teamed, there just arent enough blockers to do so.

As far as our team looks, I see it this way.

I am very confident with run defense inside the Ts. The inside 3 are very effective. We will continue to hear complaints about Mayo not playing like Lewis or Willis from fans who don't understand what his assignment is but he will continue to team with Wilfork and whoever his DE is to control the area fron C to T very well. Spikes is also a great fit for that job.

At DE Brace showed me in preseason that he is exactly the physical force I described above to handle todays pass blocking favored OT. Gerard Warren certainly has the bulk and strength to control OTs as well, however I have not been impressed with his ability to disengage the blocker to make the play in the small sample we have seen (although not holding the point of attack is the cardinal sin, and not disengaging well is a much less severe issue to survive) and it seems to be in his blood to want to abandon 2gap duties and try to penetrate. I see Wright as a solid player who needs to keep excellent technique discipline to not be overpowered and who is inconsistent with technique discipline.

One very, very crtical part of run D IMO is short yardage. 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, goalline. I think out of everything about a defense this is the one area we are least consistent year to year. Franlkly we either own those situations or struggle very badly. I am encouraged that we may have one of those seasons where we own short yardage because of the bulk of our DL. We are bigger on the DL, and in reserve DL than I ever remember outside of maybe Ted Washington being bigger by himself than any other DL

Those situations are so important to run D because a 3rd and inches stuff is move valuable than a sack and almost as valuable as a turnover.

Overall, I think our run D will be improved. I am not worried about inside run D, which is the most critical, given, again, that when we have been weak, it has always been inside.

I am not concerned about the sweep/stretch because it is by far the hardest area of the field to run against a 2gap 34 D. Even if our weakest players are there, it will still be a difficult way for teams to exploit us.

The most questionable area will be the runs off tackle, outside of the DE, and inside of the OLB, including the 'stretch' play cut up in that area, and the counter traps. How we defend that area will probably define how good our overall run D is. With quick and active ILBs there is better support for that area, but the point of attack is the biggest unknown. Is Brace healthy? Is he ready to play full time? Can he play at his preseason level for full games? How will Warren address the questions about him? How much will Wright be needed? Can Pryor play the run at all if needed?
How will the OLBs play that strong OT run, handling a pulling G, a trap, a stretch play cut up inside them? Other than TBC (who did a pretty good job last year) we really havent seen enough to know.

Last edited by jmt57; 09-10-2010 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

Andy, great, great post. Thank you for the hard work you put in it.

One thing I find hilarious, is that last year, everybody was hating on Brace, some even called him a bust. This year, if everything goes like it should, he'll be starting next to VW.

Last edited by BradyMossWelker; 09-10-2010 at 10:24 PM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

A couple of posters wrote about a game in 9 days. Why is that?
Are you overlooking the game our favorite team will have in 2 days?
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyBlueCat View Post
A couple of posters wrote about a game in 9 days. Why is that?
Are you overlooking the game our favorite team will have in 2 days?
To answer my own question, you folks want to see both games (Jets & Bengals) before making a judgment?
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

I don't really see how Cincinnati is a Rushing team. Cedric Benson has been terrible up until last year where he rushed for 1,200 yards. That is a good season but I am not sold on him. I am not worried about Benson like everyone else is.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradyMossWelker View Post
Andy, great, great post. Thank you for the hard work you put in it.

One thing I find hilarious, is that last year, everybody was hating on Brace, some even called him a bust. This year, if everything goes like it should, he'll be starting next to VW.
Brace wasnt ready to play last year. Its clear now that he has the skills expected of his high draft choice, and in particular the ones that are valued in this system. It wasnt an ability issue last year, it was just a guy not ready to move up to this level, for whatever reason.


BTW, I realize we havent seen enough of him to fully judge him yet, but the specific abilities that I saw in his preseason plays are not 'flashed' skills, but the inate ones a DE in our system needs. As long as conditioning, endurance or motivation arent problems I am 100% certain he will be an excellent 34 run defender and could offer some bull rush pressure, and that is an important skill in a 2 gap.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgteich View Post
You've set the key questions.
1) Will G. Warren or Brace help Wilfork seal the middle, especially on short yardage.
2) Will any of linebackers be capable of stopping off-tackle plays and containing sweeps?
I'd even narrow it down more.
1) I'm OK with runs inside of the OT/DE but the short yardage is a big deal.
2) I'm not concerned about the sweep but the off-tackle will tell us a lot about the success of the run D, and its the one area we know the least about how the players we have will do.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: How Good Is Our Run Defense?

Interesting analysis of the team's philosophy in regards to defending the run. When I have thought of a team that tried to push opposing running backs laterally where either the sideline or a linebacker would take care of the rest, the first team I think of is Tampa Bay from the late '90's; Warren Sapp would do his job in the middle, a RB would go wide, and Derrick Brooks would wrap him up for no gain.

Two very dissimilar defensive schemes and approaches on how to defend similar opponents.
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