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Forced 3 turnovers? One great pick by Champ Bailey, a pick on a desperation heave that should have resulted in pass interference, one flat out muffed punt, one dropped ball in traffic by Faulk and one ball squirting out by Hobbs when he gets hit by a kicker. Sounds more like 1.5, 2 tops that they forced. Way too many of the turnovers were flat out concentration lapses, not some great play by the Denver defense.
So you're not giving Denver credit for the fumbles by Hobbs and Faulk ? Let's look at each turnover:
1. Faulk's fumle - the ball did not come out by itself, Courtney Brown's hit had a lot to do with it.
2. Hobb's fumble - Sauerbrun's hit on the arm & ball knocked it out, it did not squirt out by accident.
3. Brady's int - great play by Bailey, bad play by Brady. Nothing to discuss
4. Brown's muffed punt return - this is the only real unforced TO as far as I'm concerned
5. Brady's 2nd int - desperate throw into triple coverage. I chalked it up to an unforced turnover because of circumstances. Did not see any interference on this play
Look, I'm as disappointed and bitter as everyone here about the loss, but to say Denver's D & special teams didn't earn that victory is ridiculous.
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Disagree........the HORRIBLE officiating is not the SOLE reason why we lost this game.......The primary reason we lost is that we SHOT OURSELVES IN THE FOOT on every possible occasion. That having been said....when officiating is that terribly biased, one sided, and just plain flat out wrong...it certainly helped the Broncs win.
The refs made ONE horrible call last night. The PI call. The others you guys are complaining about were nit picky. I can count several instances of holding against the Broncos that weren't called if I wanted to whine the same way.
So you're not giving Denver credit for the fumbles by Hobbs and Faulk ? Let's look at each turnover:
1. Faulk's fumle - the ball did not come out by itself, Courtney Brown's hit had a lot to do with it.
2. Hobb's fumble - Sauerbrun's hit on the arm & ball knocked it out, it did not squirt out by accident.
3. Brady's int - great play by Bailey, bad play by Brady. Nothing to discuss
4. Brown's muffed punt return - this is the only real unforced TO as far as I'm concerned
5. Brady's 2nd int - desperate throw into triple coverage. I chalked it up to an unforced turnover because of circumstances. Did not see any interference on this play
Look, I'm as disappointed and bitter as everyone here about the loss, but to say Denver's D & special teams didn't earn that victory is ridiculous.
Thanks you're a class act....and I'll say this a million times, the Patriots are the envy of the entire league. Every team's fans want their team to accomplish want the Patriots have accomplished the last three years. In fact, we're jealous.
A quote from Richard Seymour "''You can't say we did it to ourselves, when you say we beat ourselves you're not giving the other team enough credit. We did make a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes, but in a way they forced them. As a competitive player and as a man you have to accept it. They did it to us. I'm disappointed. Very disappointed. But if you can't accept a loss, what kind of person are you?"
Hats off to the Patriots who have my ultimate respect.
On Brady's second INT, Andre Davis was clearly thrown to the ground before the ball got to that area. I think that's PI, especially if Asante got called for it for what he "did".
My roomate was saying last night how he always says, "to win a championship, you have to have everything go your way." The entire game didnt for the patriots last night. The bounces of the balls all seemed to go away from us, and all the calls went the other way (He refered to the Champ Bailey fumble as the "reverse tuck-rule", as in that is what would have happened if the tuck rule went the other way, the fumble out of the endzone was as close to a turning point/last chance we were going to get). I just think nothing went our way, and the patriots players deserve most of the blame; they didnt hold on to the ball, and they threw interceptions. Im not saying we would have won if the referees made different calls, I just think that most people are going to use the referees to blame because most of us aren't sure how to deal with a loss in the Brady/Belichick playoff era.
Last edited by chunkypony; 01-15-2006 at 11:40 AM..
Come on, guys. The blown call even raised the dander of fair-minded CBS analyst Phil Simms. It's a call that should have never been made--unless for offensive interference.
Probably the Broncos get stopped by the stud Patriots defense and only kick a field goal. It's 3-3. Much better than 3-7.
It was almost as bad as Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton's roughing the passer penalty in 1976.
Like that, this awful call changed the complexion of the game. Remember, easy scores, which we gave plenty to the Broncos, really gets the home crowd going.
The ref doesn't make that call we don't lose by nearly as much. In fact, an argument can be made that putting the Broncos in catch-u mode would have forced them into plays that would have increased the likelihood of their making mistakes. After all, we scored first.
How many times have the Broncos been behind at home? This game was ours. We lost to an inferior team because they didn't make mistakes (except for the obvious interception by Asante Samuel--What the heck were the refs thinking on that play?) and we made five. Five.
Also, they got help by bad calls and non-calls.
Anyone else see Champ Bailey's obvious facemask on Andre' Davis on the 51-yard gainer? Or the false start on the field goal that wasn't called?
The refs tried their best--they just didn't have a very good game, either.
Next week the Broncos get their arse handed to them by the Colts (or Steelers). They. Are. Not. Very. Good.
That game turned my stomach. That late flag did too. It turned a hostile environment into more of one. Ultimate blame lies with the turnovers, but that call was a bigger deal than the fumble, as bad as that was.
I made this exact point in another post. Bailey made a great play on a bad Brady pass, but does Brady make that pass if the score is 7-6, or 6-0, which it very well could have been had the pass interference call not been made and the offensive offside on the Bronco's was called? I am not entirely sure he does. The refs also had missed the 15 yard face mask and called a borderline call the Bronco's way (on the Watson play), it was clear the refs were being swayed by the hometown crowd. As for holding penalties, give me a break, it is rarely called on both sides, and if you can point out fifty instances of Pats holding, I am sure I can point to fifty instances of Bronco holding as well. But offensive offside and face masks are always called, and in this game they were not at key moments and that is all on the refs. The Bronco's play well when they are up, and the refs played a significant role in putting them there.
With that said, shame on the Pats for not overcoming this. Brady should never have tried to force a play. Shame on Troy Brown for fumbling, shame on Vinitierri for not making that field goal. Usually the Pats get over these things, so I give Denver credit for constantly keeping the pressure on and forcing Patriot mistakes (and yes, even Brown's turnover was forced, since it was the pressure of being behind that rattled Brown's concentration) and capitalizing on those mistakes every time. I wish the Bronco's and their fans all the luck in the next couple of games. Still, bad officiating played a significant role in this game, and I for one am not just going to ignore it and not complain about it.
Last edited by dante828; 01-15-2006 at 11:50 AM..
Reason: grammer and spelling
He had the face mask and pulled the helmet up, he may have had the upper part of the helmet later, but he definitely had the face mask at some point. To be fair, no ref really had an angle to see that, so I am not sure it was a bad call but just a sneaky play by Bailey.
well now you guys now what its like to be on the wrong end of questionable calls. in years past that bailey fumble would have been called a touchback on the field and there would have been no visual evidence to overturn that. and than it would be you guys saying there is no way to prove it was the wrong call while denver fans cried about it. sometimes things go your way and sometimes they dont. the last few years alot of things have gone your way but this year they didnt it happens to everyone.
and i also have to say that even with all the questionable calls the nfl will not need to go and revise the rulebook to justify any of the officials calls like they did in 2001.
well now you guys now what its like to be on the wrong end of questionable calls. in years past that bailey fumble would have been called a touchback on the field and there would have been no visual evidence to overturn that. and than it would be you guys saying there is no way to prove it was the wrong call while denver fans cried about it. sometimes things go your way and sometimes they dont. the last few years alot of things have gone your way but this year they didnt it happens to everyone.
and i also have to say that even with all the questionable calls the nfl will not need to go and revise the rulebook to justify any of the officials calls like they did in 2001.
However the Tuck Rule was not reversed, it still exists, and was judged correctly at the time. I am not saying that the Pats haven't benefitted from some questionable calls in the past, and it does suck to be on the receiving end. But the two key calls (the pass interference and the offensive offsides) were not questionable, they were clearly mistakes and they changed the face of the game. And as I have continued to say, those plays only hurt if Denver capitalizes on them, which they did (just as the tuck rule decision only hurt Oakland because the Pats were able to capitalize on the call by outplaying the Raiders the rest of the game). In a totally non-sarcastic way, good for Denver, that is what good teams do.
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