livinginthe past

Great post patfanken, as usual!

Its nice to read a Patriots fan who has sense of guarded optimism, rather than those who can't pay the team a compliment without a glass-half-full attitude.

I also believe that the depth in this teams is stunning this year - so many options - and just because Bryant didn't work out last year it doesn't mean that bears any relation to this years crop.

Some expect all-pro production across the board - the ridiculous criticism of the O-line on the back of one poor game at the Superbowl (where the co-ordinators have to take some heat for sticking stubbornly to the game plan in a Martz-esque fashion).

This is an O-line that made some games in 2007 look ridiculously unfair with the amount of time they gave Brady to throw out of formations when the opposition knew they would pass.

I have a great deal of optimism regarding this years team - I think we'll find a little more balance with the offensive playcalling.

The LBers just have to be 'okay' for this team to be a serious player in the post season.

Box_O_Rocks

2005 - I can't think what was different that season besides the DC?

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Box_O_Rocks

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APatrioticVirginian

Hey Ken is there a Cliffs note version of this post?

Frezo

After watching Cassel in pre-season last year, I wonder how useful it will be to see O'Connell in the same situation. He'll be getting little work with Moss and Welker and will probably be limited with Galloway too. The offense will be vanilla. I'll hope for some reg season blow outs where he can get some 4th quarter work.

jmt57

Offensive Line: Very good and perhaps underrated due to injuries at the start of 2008, with solid backups in place; also looks to be in very good shape for future years.

Running backs: Can the over-thirty guys still be productive?

Quarterback: O'Connell may be better than Cassel.

Defensive Line: Will the Pats use a 4-3 at times this year to take advantage of the talent on the DL?

Linebacker: Will Thomas be used to pass rush more often this year, or will he be counted on to drop back in coverage? And of course, who will be the other OLB?

Defensive Backs: Deepest and most talented secondary in several years, with added size and strength also.

Special teams: Have not been as good the last couple of years as they used to be but with a new coach are expected to improve.



My name's not Cliff and there's no yellow cover, but was that okay for the short-attention-spanners?

APatrioticVirginian

Yes, that was very...Hey look a squirrel!

Mike the Brit

It's always a pleasure to be schooled by your gentle irony ...

Yes, it's very difficult to assess co-ordinators, even for those who know as much about the technical side of the game as you and Ken. At the least, though, we can say that the DC signed off on Duane "Oops, I guess I'm lost, let me get my map out" Starks and Monty "Ole! There goes the bull" Beisel as his starters.

At my modest level of understanding, one way of telling that a co-ordinator is really doing his job is when I look at the game and get the feeling that the other team is caught off-balance and fails to adapt (or when your team adapts quickly and effectively to something that initially surprises them.)

I felt that we saw that a lot in the offense last season -- for instance, the imaginative ways they found to use of Welker and Faulk to make yards after the catch or the whole game against the Broncos, where, despite having injuries to their backs, the Patriots unexpectedly went run-oriented and just blew them away. Those were sweet things to see and J McD should get a lot of credit. On the other hand, the failure to adapt to a stunting, pass rushing defense in the Game That Must Not Be Named the previous season should also go on the OC (just as the failure to adapt against Miami's Wildcat should be chalked up to the DC).

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Box_O_Rocks

Yet, you also play the cards dealt you. 2005 began with a huge turnover at ILB playing behind a second year NT who didn't put it together until after mid-season. The DC undoubtedly had input on the Starks choice, but the buck started with the Pro Scouting department and ended with the guy at the top - the DC gets a pass on that one, and gets credit for bringing the rookie CB along to start at mid-season. When you check the IR list and see four CBs and two Safeties, remember Bruschi coming back mid-season and Vrabel playing inside, Artrell Hawkins moving to SS to stabilize the secondary when Eugene Wilson proved unable to fill the leadership void, and despite not having the modern high-flying offense to carry them, that team got to the divisional round before some questionable calls and fluke plays by veterans combined for what fans consider the first postseason meltdown (the example of Willie pushing Izzo on the sidelines - and he was the one gone the next year)...you have to say Mangini was more than competitive as a rookie DC.

You can argue individual games where McDaniels might not have adjusted his offense quickly enough to secure a victory, but the only season where he was either OC or OC-in-training that NE failed to make the playoffs was considered a resounding success by NFL decision makers. That one particular game had some lucky bounces, and individual errors and misfortunes, assist in the final result. My only real criticism was not eating more clock on the final scoring drive against an exhausted and wilting defense - it happens, who can blame the decision makers who thought they could withstand Eli for two minutes, most of us would have taken that bet.

My original query still stands, name a position coach or coordinator whom BB developed who failed to turn in a more than competitive performance?

Pees bio describes "a 37-year coaching veteran...named the defensive coordinator on Bill Belichick's staff on January 17, 2006. Pees served as the Patriots' linebackers coach from 2004-05 and his coaching credentials include six seasons as a collegiate head coach and 15 seasons as a defensive coordinator at the college level." That's a BB hire, not necessarily a BB-developed coach, and would he have been the DC so soon if Mangini hadn't bolted? Either way, his defenses got the team to the AFCCG, SB, and an 11-5 tie-breaker decision - we've seen worse, just not since 2000.

If O'Brien survives this season you can argue he was a BB-developed OC because he started as an offensive assistant despite having been a college OC. He came in through the hawse as it were, and was promoted to OC-in-training over a longer tenured, former NFL OC/college HC who came in as a position coach (and left to take OC in Tampa Bay).

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Mike the Brit

If you think back about ten pages, I just mentioned the OC as one of the *questions* I have about the team this year.

Your points about '05 are all true -- there was a serious drop-off in the defense from '04, but it isn't clear that it can be laid at the DC's door for the reasons mentioned. The factors are just too complicated.

And I'm not going to take up the challenge to name a co-ordinator who didn't work out.

The thing I do think, though, is that it takes anyone, however competent, a while to bed down into a new job -- I don't care if it's co-ordinator for the Patriots or military intelligence -- and, while I don't have complaints about McDaniels in '06 or '07, the job he did in '08 was truly outstanding. He's set a high level for his successor. Even if O'Brien gets there in time, will he do it immediately?

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They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Well, Pats fans should be invincible by now. [Fitzy, 16 November 2009]

Still here to learn