Patriots/Colts Observations - New England Patriots Forums

***Deus Irae*** · 11-03-2008, 09:54 AM

Ok, once again I'll list them off bullet point style, but first I think something needs to be said.

This is not Tom Brady and the Flying Patriots. This is Matt Cassel and the Walking Wounded. People here really need to stop demanding perfection, and to start realizing that an 11-12 win season will be a great success for this team given all the adversity. I could, and probably should, say more, but if people can't grasp that first obvious point and its ramifications, the rest is just a waste of time. Now, on to the observations:

1.) There was nothing wrong with the idea of the challenge for 12 men on the field. The team thought there was an opportunity to turn a failed first down play into a first and five. It is one that they should have been certain of before tossing the flag on, though, since it was just a matter of counting.

2.) Matt Cassel continues to improve, and he definitely played well enough to win last night.

3.) Matt Cassel continues to not be Tom Brady, and that has a tremendous impact on the opponents' strategy. It also changed the Patriots' strategy, which far too many people here don't seem to understand.

4.) BJGE ran pretty well last night all things considered, but this team really needs to get the better runners back if they are going to win the division.

5.) Moss is showing signs of patience that weren't there earlier in the season, and that should really help the team's mentality.

6.) Mayo is very, very fast. Unfortunately, he's also a rookie, and that's still really hurting the team on several plays a game. You get the good, and you get the bad.

7.) The offensive line is looking much better. Neal makes an enormous difference, as I think people are starting to figure out. I still think the Patriots win the Super Bowl last season if he doesn't get hurt, and nothing I'm seeing with his return to the lineup has convinced me I'm wrong.

8.) Kevin Faulk is Kevin Faulk, for which we should be grateful.

9.) I keep harping on it, but Daniel Graham should still be here.

10.) People are banging on Thomas for his penalty, and rightfully so, but the biggest screw up of the game was Gaffney's drop.

11.) I wish BB hadn't called that timeout on 4th down and then gone for the field goal. The team had a chance to really make a statement there, in light of the San Diego game. I don't think BB was wrong, but I'd have preferred the team go for it.

12.) The league has got to start calling those pick plays on teams like the Colts when they plow right into the defenders. That was inexcusable last night.

13.) The offensive game plan was brilliant, and the execution was almost flawless. Unfortunately, almost was not quite good enough.

14.) People have complained about the pass rush, but they seem to be overlooking 2 key things. First, it was against Manning, and you almost never get sacks against him. Second, they held the Colts to 2.2 yards per rush.

15.) I didn't like the decision to go for 2 because I thought the 2 field goal lead was fine at that point in the game. On the other hand, it's hard to bash the coach for thinking that a touchdown's worth of points was needed against Peyton Manning.

There's a lot more that I'd like to say about last night's game, actually, but this will have to do in the interest of space.

emoney_33 · 11-03-2008, 10:21 AM

I agree with most of your post, except for a few points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

1.) There was nothing wrong with the idea of the challenge for 12 men on the field. The team thought there was an opportunity to turn a failed first down play into a first and five. It is one that they should have been certain of before tossing the flag on, though, since it was just a matter of counting.

Disagree. In the 2nd half against the Colts, I think timeouts are at a premium. Risking one for 5 yards is not OK IMO.

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5.) Moss is showing signs of patience that weren't there earlier in the season, and that should really help the team's mentality.

Could you explain this one?

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6.) Mayo is very, very fast. Unfortunately, he's also a rookie, and that's still really hurting the team on several plays a game. You get the good, and you get the bad.

I agree, we have a lot of young speed on the defense but also a lot of inexperience. We'll have some growing pains but hopefully less mistakes later in the year.

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11.) I wish BB hadn't called that timeout on 4th down and then gone for the field goal. The team had a chance to really make a statement there, in light of the San Diego game. I don't think BB was wrong, but I'd have preferred the team go for it.

I dunno, I'm kind of torn on this one, whether to just tie it up or go for the throat. The timeout however has no excuse, make your decision and stick with it!

On an aside, Welker completely wiffed on a block on a screen to Moss, but no call of lack of effort from you.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-03-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

I agree with most of your post, except for a few points.....Disagree. In the 2nd half against the Colts, I think timeouts are at a premium. Risking one for 5 yards is not OK IMO.

It wasn't just 5 yards, which is a mistake a lot of people have made. It was the difference between 1 and 5 and 2nd and about 10. Given the game plan, that's a significant difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

I agree, we have a lot of young speed on the defense but also a lot of inexperience. We'll have some growing pains but hopefully less mistakes later in the year.

Yes. I'm not trying to denigrate Mayo at all, because he's done well for a rookie. But he got taken advantage of, particularly during that first long touchdown drive by Manning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

I dunno, I'm kind of torn on this one, whether to just tie it up or go for the throat. The timeout however has no excuse, make your decision and stick with it!

BB supposedly changed his mind because he at first thought it was 4th and inches and then realized it was longer than that. To me, it was less than a yard either way, and it was a chance to get the taste of San Diego out of their mouths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

On an aside, Welker completely wiffed on a block on a screen to Moss, but no call of lack of effort from you.

Welker's miss on the tackle was not due to lack of effort. If you missed it, go back and listen to Michaels/Madden talking about it.

BradyManny · 11-03-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

6.) Mayo is very, very fast. Unfortunately, he's also a rookie, and that's still really hurting the team on several plays a game. You get the good, and you get the bad.

I pretty much agree with every point you raise.

6 - On Mayo, I actually thought last nite was one of the game where he didn't have any misreads or mistakes. He gave up a couple pass plays in coverage, but I thought they were mostly good plays by the Colts, Manning finding holes in the zone, or the responsibility of another player in coverage. He and Guyton generally looked great last nite and were definitely bright spots.

emoney_33 · 11-03-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

It wasn't just 5 yards, which is a mistake a lot of people have made. It was the difference between 1 and 5 and 2nd and about 10. Given the game plan, that's a significant difference.

I understand that and I still feel the timeout is worth more against the Colts. Whoever told BB to challenge it from upstairs may have screwed up if he told BB it was close to a sure win.

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BB supposedly changed his mind because he at first thought it was 4th and inches and then realized it was longer than that. To me, it was less than a yard either way, and it was a chance to get the taste of San Diego out of their mouths.

Yea that one is on BB, but at least we know it won't happen often.

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Welker's miss on the tackle was not due to lack of effort. If you missed it, go back and listen to Michaels/Madden talking about it.

It amazes me how you believe you have the ability to determine what is and isn't caused by effort or lack thereof. I am not saying Welker lacked effort, I am just showing the Moss bias.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

It amazes me how you believe you have the ability to determine what is and isn't caused by effort or lack thereof. I am not saying Welker lacked effort, I am just showing the Moss bias.

Again, go back and listen to Michaels/Madden for an explanation. It has nothing to do with a belief on my part.

***Box_O_Rocks*** · 11-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deus irae

1.) there was nothing wrong with the idea of the challenge for 12 men on the field. The team thought there was an opportunity to turn a failed first down play into a first and five. It is one that they should have been certain of before tossing the flag on, though, since it was just a matter of counting. - that one goes on the coaches in the booth, whomever had that assignment let indy's foul-up trip him up, which led to bb's red flag.

3.) matt cassel continues to not be tom brady, and that has a tremendous impact on the opponents' strategy. It also changed the patriots' strategy, which far too many people here don't seem to understand. - please don't growl at us about expecting last season and then state the obvious about a qb with 8 fewer seasons of playing experience (or 12 if you count usc time). He done good, let it go at that.

4.) bjge ran pretty well last night all things considered, but this team really needs to get the better runners back if they are going to win the division. - he's learning, ivan is bringing him along as rapidly as josh is bringing mattyice. Having the veterans back will unquestionably help.

5.) moss is showing signs of patience that weren't there earlier in the season, and that should really help the team's mentality. - he done good.

6.) mayo is very, very fast. Unfortunately, he's also a rookie, and that's still really hurting the team on several plays a game. You get the good, and you get the bad. - ditto for guyton, i loved seeing him come from halfway across the field to make clean-up tackles.

9.) i keep harping on it, but daniel graham should still be here. - i will say watson and thomas have both improved their blocking from where they started the season. I'm not as angry with thomas' penalty as many, it was an extension of the play and i want the big bodies up front focused on hitting defenders and not standing around observing the runner's progress to determine if the play is still alive - that is why ref's have whistles. I still place the largest blame on goodall's ongoing nerf football pogroms.

10.) people are banging on thomas for his penalty, and rightfully so, but the biggest screw up of the game was gaffney's drop. - i won't go that far, while you are happy with the coaching, i'm just a little disappointed with the offensive game plan. A little more aggression is well within this team's capacity, for example heath evans lead blocking looked productive for the team.

11.) i wish bb hadn't called that timeout on 4th down and then gone for the field goal. The team had a chance to really make a statement there, in light of the san diego game. I don't think bb was wrong, but i'd have preferred the team go for it. - i would have preferred he send out a spread formation the second time and given matt the freedom to make a play. Go down swinging as it were.

12.) the league has got to start calling those pick plays on teams like the colts when they plow right into the defenders. That was inexcusable last night. - i need to rewatch for them, but when i did focus on those plays i put the burden on pees, capers, and patricia to work with those young kids on handling the rubs vice anything blatently illegal that the colts got away with.

13.) the offensive game plan was brilliant, and the execution was almost flawless. Unfortunately, almost was not quite good enough. - as previously stated, no, matt and co. Could have handled a little more to set up some plays up the field.

1010101010 WTF? I preview this and all the CAPITAL letters, including Deus' original post show up as lower case? Holy shades of e.e. cummings batIan!

emoney_33 · 11-03-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Again, go back and listen to Michaels/Madden for an explanation. It has nothing to do with a belief on my part.

I don't really care about Michaels/Madden opinion. I was talking about your effort rants on Moss last week where a key point was Moss missing a block on a screen to Welker. But just forget it now, it went way over your head.

***Deus Irae*** · 11-03-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emoney_33

I don't really care about Michaels/Madden opinion. I was talking about your effort rants on Moss last week where a key point was Moss missing a block on a screen to Welker. But just forget it now, it went way over your head.

It didn't go over my head. You are hung up on something that has nothing to do with the particular play you're pointing to. There's a rule about the timing of the block on that play. As I said, look to the game commentary.

emoney_33 · 11-03-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

It didn't go over my head. You are hung up on something that has nothing to do with the particular play you're pointing to. There's a rule about the timing of the block on that play. As I said, look to the game commentary.

Ok sorry you have no bias.