OT- What will Goodell do? Colin Kaepernick sits during national anthem

[Gwedd]

It's a free country, a freedom guaranteed by countless thousands who fought and died for the flag that our National Anthem hails. As a result, Colin Kaepernick is free to sit quietly during the National Anthem.

At the end of the day, Kaepernick has to live with the fact that he can no longer make news on the field, so he's left with making news from the sidelines.

This. I am a disabled veteran. I would, without hesitation, stand between Kaepernick and the mob to protect his right to say whatever he wants to say. My son, also a veteran, agrees.

Having said that, Kaepernick also needs to understand that actions have consequences and though he is free to act and speak however he wishes, he is NOT free from criticism. To my mind, he is acting in a childish manner, becoming a boor and acting like an ass. His career, in large part due to him, has been tanking and he's looking for someone to blame. he needs to look in the mirror and start there.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Yet she a woman, gets a 6 month suspension for insulting the Swedes. NFL hates the United States, charges the military to honor soldiers.

This belongs in a Political Forum, but Hope Solo insulted an opponent, whether it be from Sweden or Swansea. That is why she was and should have been punished.

Otherwise, it's a bad comparison if one is trying to call attention to double standards. Many would argue that she should have been disciplined a long time ago, but her alleged victims did not cooperate with law enforcement (sound familiar?). The incident raised, in the minds of many, comparisons to a double standard when viewed in the context of the penalties to Ray Rice, even before "the video."

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This. I am a disabled veteran. I would, without hesitation, stand between Kaepernick and the mob to protect his right to say whatever he wants to say. My son, also a veteran, agrees.

Having said that, Kaepernick also needs to understand that actions have consequences and though he is free to act and speak however he wishes, he is NOT free from criticism. To my mind, he is acting in a childish manner, becoming a boor and acting like an ass. His career, in large part due to him, has been tanking and he's looking for someone to blame. he needs to look in the mirror and start there.

First of all, thank you for your Service and your sacrifice.

Agree 100%. Our right to be critical in an appropriate manner (i.e., without using hate speech) of what he did is protected to the same degree as his right to do it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Get the hell out of the country. Now.

My family amd millions of others didn't go to Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, France and sit on a boat in the Pacific fighting for that scum to throw a football for a living.

As a direct descendant of his father and uncles who served in WWII, of a Great Uncle who died in WWI and of a Great-Grandfather who fought for the Union at the Bloody Angle on Cemetery Ridge at Gettysburg during Pickett's Charge, I respectfully disagree with you.

It is my belief that all of them made those sacrifices so a person with whom I profoundly disagree can indeed "throw a football for a living" rather than be thrown "out of the country" or dragged off to a Gulag or secret prison for "re-education."

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

As I've said, if people want to burn flags and sit on their hands during the NA, that is their right.

My point is that not showing respect to the nation that provides them that freedom for 2 freaking minutes is disrespectful and someone I really don't want to be in the same country with.

I like you and I decided I don't want to make an assumption, so I'm going to ask you this:

How would you feel if some hack from England was temporarily assigned to our government and, after two months here decided the U.S. is clearly too "broken and ridiculed" and needs an image makeover from his marketing team, and while he would never dream or dare do anything to his beloved Union Jack, commissions a graphic design firm in Hong Kong to hastily come up with an ugly new flag and colors for our country, which the new president loves and is embraced by mostly younger Americans, who shout in unison "Screw the past!", and then after a few nondescript, unimproved years a young gentleman barely makes it into D.C. and rises to become the greatest diplomat in two centuries, gets Putin to drop a nuke on himself, oversees the implementation of true peace in the middle east and prosperity between nations and people here associate that with the replacement flag?

That's precisely how I've felt as a Patriots fan since 1993.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

robertweathers isn't asking for the douche to be thrown out of the country or dragged anywhere, it seems to me, he is just suggesting that the douche ought to willingly leave if he really thinks that this is such a detestable place.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As a direct descendant of his father and uncles who served in WWII, of a Great Uncle who died in WWI and of a Great-Grandfather who fought for the Union at the Bloody Angle on Cemetery Ridge at Gettysburg during Pickett's Charge, I respectfully disagree with you.

It is my belief that all of them made those sacrifices so a person with whom I profoundly disagree can indeed "throw a football for a living" rather than be thrown "out of the country" or dragged off to a Gulag or secret prison for "re-education."

Your disagreement is noted and respected.

As I have stated in subsequent posts, burning flags and choosing to sit during the NA is a right each citizen has in this country. I'm fine with that and I'm fine for him publicy critcizing all that is bad with this country anytime or day he chooses. With that said it doesn't mean hes right. Nor does it mean I am wrong for ripping him a new one on this forum.

Choosing not to show respect to the symbol of that right afforded to him by soldiers who died protecting it and the fellow citizens who respect is ********.

Hes just an entitled, disrespectful baby who I will never consider a true fellow countryman.

 

[patfanken]

In the end it comes down to the fact that Kapernick has the Constitutionally given right to make the statement that he made. Just as other people have the SAME Constitutionally given right to blast him for that opinion.....AS LONG as they agree that he had the right to state that opinion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In the end it comes down to the fact that Kapernick has the Constitutionally given right to make the statement that he made. Just as other people have the SAME Constitutionally given right to blast him for that opinion.....AS LONG as they agree that he had the right to state that opinion.

I agree 100%

He still should leave

 

[oldrover]

In the end it comes down to the fact that our forefathers spilled blood so that Kapernick could have the Constitutionally given right to make the statement that he made.

Fixed it for you.

Just as other people have the SAME Constitutionally given right to blast him for that opinion.....AS LONG as they agree that he had the right to state that opinion.

That part is inaccurate. Kaep can be blasted whether or not the 'blaster' agrees he has that right. The blaster's speech cannot be curtailed either (libel or slander aside). Freedom of speech includes the freedom of errant speech.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I see where you are going with this.

Look- I am not a stick in the mud. I believe in change- radical change if necessary. If it's broken, fix it. If you solution does not work, learn from it and don't be afraid to try again and again to fix the problem. I practice that in my life and that is what Mrs. RW and I teach our children.

America is in constant change. Some of it is good. Some not We as citizens need to evolve and decide what is best for us and our country. The majority should decide. However there are key tenants of citizenship that MUST be adhered to and that is respect for where we live. That is where Kap lost me.

I'm not sure how I would feel if the US flag was changed. Personally, I think there are better songs than the SSB but I'm ok with it. Personally I like "God Bless America" the best.

Thanks. I (obviously) feel a personal attachment to our heritage, which I consider important and honorable, and the challenges we have faced and overcome, as a country and a football team, are largely unique among our peers. There's no way to implant true history into the younger generation's minds, but sometimes people can figure out things for themselves. I think I have to view this as a test of faith.

 

[XLIX]

I don't like what he did but I am distressed that my America doesn't seem to allow different ideas or different expressions. One of our most treasured concepts is "freedom of speech" but its being worn down.
Stop being judgemental. Have an opinion, state it, but don't resent that someone else disagrees. If your the one that disagrees thats ok also, but don't assume you are right. "Respect the others opinion".

The Constitution guarantees Freedom of Speech. It most certainly does not guarantee your speech has to be respected.

He has the legal right to sit down during the national anthem. And I have the legal right to call him a spoiled, disrespectful ******* for doing so.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Your disagreement is noted and respected.

As I have stated in subsequent posts, burning flags and choosing to sit during the NA is a right each citizen has in this country. I'm fine with that and I'm fine for him publicy critcizing all that is bad with this country anytime or day he chooses. With that said it doesn't mean hes right. Nor does it mean I am wrong for ripping him a new one on this forum.

Choosing not to show respect to the symbol of that right afforded to him by soldiers who died protecting it and the fellow citizens who respect is ********.

Hes just an entitled, disrespectful baby who I will never consider a true fellow countryman.

I think I missed your subsequent clarifications (I have to admit that I don't read every post in long threads). My bad.

And yes, you have as much a right to rip "him a new one" as he has to sit on his butt during the National Anthem. You also have every right to decide whom you personally "consider a true fellow countryman," since the definition of such is established by law and we are all entitled to our opinion of any law.

Finally, I actually agree that his were the actions of "an entitled disrespectful" millionaire and that his choosing not to respect the Flag during the National Anthem is s "********" act. I just disagreed that it was "********" for which we should toss him out of the country, which is the statement you subsequently clarified.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think I missed your subsequent clarifications (I have to admit that I don't read every post in long threads). My bad.

And yes, you have as much a right to rip "him a new one" as he has to sit on his butt during the National Anthem. You also have every right to decide whom you personally "consider a true fellow countryman," since the definition of such is established by law and we are all entitled to our opinion of any law.

Finally, I actually agree that his were the actions of "an entitled disrespectful" millionaire and that his choosing not to respect the Flag during the National Anthem is s "********" act. I just disagreed that it was "********" for which we should toss him out of the country, which is the statement you subsequently clarified.

Yes. That is where I was not clear. Not suggesting he should be deported. Suggesting that he should leave on his own accord and also his attitude erodes away at what we need more of this this country which is respect for our fellow Americans and what ultimately the USA stands for.

Clearly he is not aligned with me and because I have a twinge of righteousness he should get the hell out.

 

[skri65]

Kaep strikes me as a moron. With that said, he wasn't sitting during the NA in order to disrespect fallen soldiers, or to disrespect the opportunities provided to him that ultimately made him a very rich man. You can respect the sacrifices others have made for you, and sit during the anthem in recognition of how much better this country could be for large swaths of people.

Whenever there is even the smallest implication of a lack of gratefulness for the opportunities afforded here, it's like a switch is flipped and everything turns black and white. "Every millennial is an entitled twat." People can be grateful and want better for others. The National Anthem means many things to many people. A person who sits may be as grateful and respectful as one who stands.

 

[patfanken]

Fixed it for you.



That part is inaccurate. Kaep can be blasted whether or not the 'blaster' agrees he has that right. The blaster's speech cannot be curtailed either (libel or slander aside). Freedom of speech includes the freedom of errant speech.

No you didn't fix it, OR. Let us not forget that Washington, Adams, Hanckock, and Hamilton, etc all are revered by us specifically BECAUSE they refused to stand and salute the flag of their nation. A lot of blood was shed because people of the day wanted to change that flag.

The flag itself means nothing. It's what the flag is supposed to represent is what's important. Our forefathers warned us to beware the ones who throw the flag in our faces and extol patriotism like its a brick, and tell us to fear everyone who is "different". It's such a laugh, since we live in a country that was made strong BECAUSE everyone was "different".

Of course we shouldn't be shocked. Periodically we've endured these kinds of xenophobia. As early as the 1840's during a massive Irish immigration. Later we've experienced it with the Chinese, Japanese, Italians, and other Eastern Europeans, during periods when America needed cheap labor.

What is so funny is that when we look back at those times, we always think about how stupid they were, and how much better the country was BECAUSE of that immigration. What is so sad is that once again there are those who would use this issue for their own personal gain, DESPITE the fact it flies in the face of EVERYTHING we're supposed to have learned from our past. Clearly a lot of people were sleeping in history class in school.

 

[Tony2046]

My gunny nephew is alive and well. He has survived multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm sure he disagrees with Kaepernick's actions, as do I. This famous quote, sometimes attributed to Voltaire, says it best: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Man. You might have a plan there.

Stick your nephew on the sideline with Kappydink and the next time he refuses to respect the NA he'll find his big protesting balls stuck in his throat.

No Marine would put up with that. Guaranteed.

 

[50-yard-line]

If the internet had been around in late April, 1967, we would have seen almost identical posts regarding a "notorious" athlete. That particular guy was remembered rather fondly after his recent death, iirc.

Or in mid-October, 1968 (and again in 1972), the outrage here would be epic.

Freedom of speech (expression) either means something or it doesn't.

I had a guy yell at me at a ball game because I didn't take off my hat for "God Bless America." I'm agnostic, and even before I came to that position, the insipid lyrics of that particular song always grated.

 

[Dr Pain]

If the internet had been around in late April, 1967, we would have seen almost identical posts regarding a "notorious" athlete. That particular guy was remembered rather fondly after his recent death, iirc.

Or in mid-October, 1968.

Freedom of speech (expression) either means something or it doesn't.

I had a guy yell at me at a ball game because I didn't take off my hat for "God Bless America." I'm agnostic, and even before I came to that position, the insipid lyrics of that particular song always grated.

Freedom of speech means the government can't restrict what is said. This does not extend to the workplace and Kaepernick was speaking as an employee/representative of the 49rs and NFL. The 49rs and NFL have every right to sanction him if they choose just as Hope Solo was sanctioned for what she said.

 

[Dr Pain]

A Chill Around the Water Cooler: First Amendment in the Workplace

"the First Amendment limits only the government’s ability to suppress speech. It provides that “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech.” Courts have extended this prohibition to all federal, state, and local government officials but have consistently emphasized that the First Amendment’s strictures do not apply to private-sector employers. "

"State statutes limiting speech-related terminations are similarly incomplete. At the protective end of the spectrum, five states (California, Colorado, Montana, New York, and North Dakota) prohibit employers from punishing employees for legal off-duty activities that do not conflict with the employer’s business-related interests."