Schefter: WAS should trade Cousins now

[miloofcroton]

Ryan Leaf looked great in college, too. What did you see out of Goff in the pro's that made you so confident?

I thought Goff was a great QB in college. Lots of things I could say about him, but suffice to say, he had basically everything you want. As Froob said, he had one of the worst situations in the NFL last year. Let's just say that I would jump at the opportunity to add him to "my" team, if I were in control of any.

Maybe you make a mistake in an evaluation, or someone else does, but I don't think you can let that stop you from calling it how you see it. I think you have to project at all times and then adjust accordingly. I'd like to say that I would've known Leaf would be a bust, but of course that's much too far in the past now. If we're comparing to QBs from this past draft, there was no one that warrants a high rating from me at this time. Trubisky has talent, but I wouldn't be as confident in him as Goff.

If I can explain myself better....

I think Goff and the rest of that tier has the potential to be in the top tiers of the list, whereas a QB like Cousins or Carr is solidly top 15 without much chance of improving more, in my opinion. I'm not saying Goff would outplay Cousins, Carr, or a number of QBs below him this weekend. I'm saying I'd project him to be better in the future, at some indefinite point. This might sound esoteric, but I think forward-thinking is better than backward-thinking regarding talent evaluation.

 

[Simpelton]

This is very fair. Nonetheless, Cousins has put up some impressive numbers and one does wonder what he would do with better talent around him. So yeah, a complete evaluation cannot be made. But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for any evaluation.

agree. I think you can evaluate Cousins as an above average passer with a good football mind. As a leader he gets a very bad team to play above themselves. There's plenty to like here. I rate him somewhere between Eli Manning on the upper end and Phil Rivers just below him. Not a dominant presence but someone who can get you in with a chance if you put the right people around him.

If we traded Jimmy G and Brady evaporated on us before we were ready, and we were in a position where we needed to trade for a starting quarterback in the next 3 years as a result, Cousins is one of the first guys I'd want them to inquire about.

 

[PatsBoy12]

agree. I think you can evaluate Cousins as an above average passer with a good football mind. As a leader he gets a very bad team to play above themselves. There's plenty to like here. I rate him somewhere between Eli Manning on the upper end and Phil Rivers just below him. Not a dominant presence but someone who can get you in with a chance if you put the right people around him.

Agreed completely. As I stated from the very beginning (not to you directly), I believe Cousins is a second tier guy, perhaps lower second, as it stands now. He definitely can get better. And I do tend to believe he'd already be better with more stability (players and coaches) around him. I don't think that's unfair to at all to say. I don't like or hate him. I'm looking at it about as objectively as I can through the eyes of someone who isn't paid to evaluate talent. I just watch games on TV. LOL

 

[Simpelton]

Speaking of Cousins... honestly I've had a bit of a fancrush on him for a few years now. He came in in relief of RG3 back when he first entered the league and led the Skins to a couple victories, and I thought he looked like the real deal at the time -- poised, intelligent, accurate passer on both mid and long range throws, not flashy but solid in all facets of a quarterback's game. Glad he did get his chance, and glad he's doing well with it.

Honestly, in those first few games he actually did remind me of Brady. He hasn't quite developed to Brady's level, but he still plays a very similar game to the GOAT and, well, he has gotten more out of that Redskins team than he probably should have been able to, so there's that.

 

[Simpelton]

Agreed completely. As I stated from the very beginning (not to you directly), I believe Cousins is a second tier guy, perhaps lower second, as it stands now. He definitely can get better. And I do tend to believe he'd already be better with more stability (players and coaches) around him. I don't think that's unfair to at all to say. I don't like or hate him. I'm looking at it about as objectively as I can through the eyes of someone who isn't paid to evaluate talent. I just watch games on TV. LOL

And then there's the fact that everything I described above would have been how people rated Brady between 01 and 06 if lightning hadn't struck at the perfect time for him and the team hadn't already been ready to contend when he broke in. Brady did have something to do with his own success of course, but I don't think even TB12 could have gotten Cousins' Redskins teams to the Superbowl and beyond.

Greatness is a mix of talent and opportunity after all. I think Cousins has a ton of talent, hopefully he'll wind up getting the opportunity too.

 

[PatsBoy12]

And then there's the fact that everything I described above would have been how people rated Brady between 01 and 06 if lightning hadn't struck at the perfect time for him and the team hadn't already been ready to contend when he broke in. Brady did have something to do with his own success of course, but I don't think even TB12 could have gotten Cousins' Redskins teams to the Superbowl and beyond.

Greatness is a mix of talent and opportunity after all. I think Cousins has a ton of talent, hopefully he'll wind up getting the opportunity too.

And this is where I have no choice but to disagree slightly. It depends on which Brady we're discussing. That 2001 team was not leaps and bounds better than what Cousins has had around him, especially on O. Other than a few standouts (at THAT point), that team was not all that talented. It was a team of guys with grit and who bought what BB was selling. In fact, that is where I believe the biggest difference lays in the comparison of the two teams - coaching. Even Brady wasn't Brady yet in 2001. But if we're talking Brady after 2005, then I do believe he could have done it.

 

[miloofcroton]

And then there's the fact that everything I described above would have been how people rated Brady between 01 and 06 if lightning hadn't struck at the perfect time for him and the team hadn't already been ready to contend when he broke in. Brady did have something to do with his own success of course, but I don't think even TB12 could have gotten Cousins' Redskins teams to the Superbowl and beyond.

Greatness is a mix of talent and opportunity after all. I think Cousins has a ton of talent, hopefully he'll wind up getting the opportunity too.

To be fair though, Tom Brady has a historically good deep ball, and Cousins can barely get it over 50 yards. That's just a single example, of course, but it's illustrative of a talent difference between Brady and Cousins. Some would be harder to describe, as Cousins is known as a finesse passer, and Brady is obviously dominant in the finesse game too.

 

[Simpelton]

Oh sure, I didn't intend to say that the talent was identical. I just note several similarities in style that make Cousins somewhat Bradyesque.

 

[BlacknGold77]

To be fair though, Tom Brady has a historically good deep ball, and Cousins can barely get it over 50 yards. That's just a single example, of course, but it's illustrative of a talent difference between Brady and Cousins. Some would be harder to describe, as Cousins is known as a finesse passer, and Brady is obviously dominant in the finesse game too.

not really. overall his deep ball is average to above average.

also, dont forget that arm strength is something he worked on for a while to get good at. 01-06 his arm strength and long ball were legitimate criticisms of Brady. All the credit to him to working his ass off to improve weaknesses, and there's no saying Cousins cant do the same.

In fact, I'd argue he has with how different he looks today as a passer vs 2 years ago behind RG3

 

[PatsBoy12]

not really. overall his deep ball is average to above average.

also, dont forget that arm strength is something he worked on for a while to get good at. 01-06 his arm strength and long ball were legitimate criticisms of Brady. All the credit to him to working his ass off to improve weaknesses, and there's no saying Cousins cant do the same.

In fact, I'd argue he has with how different he looks today as a passer vs 2 years ago behind RG3

Now this I can get behind 100 percent. Other than 2007 when he was throwing to Moss, Brady has only been decent with the deep ball. His arm strength has improved drastically, as you stated. It looks stronger now than it did when he entered the league.

 

[Froob]

Ben hasn't been real impressive since deflategate. Makes me wonder how long Pittsburgh has been doing this. Same for Eli with his fake helmets.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Ben hasn't been real impressive since deflategate. Makes me wonder how long Pittsburgh has been doing this. Same for Eli with his fake helmets.

To be certain, the helmets he wears in games are real. It's only when he's trying to stiff honest, hard working fans that he uses the fake ones.

 

[Froob]

To be certain, the helmets he wears in games are real. It's only when he's trying to stiff honest, hard working fans that he uses the fake ones.

Can't be 100% certain that Tyree's helmet wasn't fake. I'm sure fake helmets are somehow an advantage.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Can't be 100% certain that Tyree's helmet wasn't fake. I'm sure fake helmets are somehow an advantage.

Stickum on the helmet!

 

[Kontradiction]

In all fairness, Goff had about as bad of a situation as you could get. Footwork looked pretty good, seemed to make pretty quick decisions. Kinda liked him more than Wentz. Rams probably will ruin him though.

In what I saw of him, I just didn't see it. He looked slow on both his pre-snap reads and his reads as the routes broke down. He also looked like he started down his primary read all too often and almost panicked when that primary was covered. Now, that could also be because he was a rookie. But I didn't see much to even project Goff into the third tier as of right now. That could change, of course. God knows I've been wrong before.

I thought Goff was a great QB in college. Lots of things I could say about him, but suffice to say, he had basically everything you want. As Froob said, he had one of the worst situations in the NFL last year. Let's just say that I would jump at the opportunity to add him to "my" team, if I were in control of any.

Maybe you make a mistake in an evaluation, or someone else does, but I don't think you can let that stop you from calling it how you see it. I think you have to project at all times and then adjust accordingly. I'd like to say that I would've known Leaf would be a bust, but of course that's much too far in the past now. If we're comparing to QBs from this past draft, there was no one that warrants a high rating from me at this time. Trubisky has talent, but I wouldn't be as confident in him as Goff.

If I can explain myself better....

I think Goff and the rest of that tier has the potential to be in the top tiers of the list, whereas a QB like Cousins or Carr is solidly top 15 without much chance of improving more, in my opinion. I'm not saying Goff would outplay Cousins, Carr, or a number of QBs below him this weekend. I'm saying I'd project him to be better in the future, at some indefinite point. This might sound esoteric, but I think forward-thinking is better than backward-thinking regarding talent evaluation.

Fair enough. I didn't see nearly what you saw in Goff but, again, he was a rookie in a piss poor situation. That said, I don't think he displayed the kind of traits that you look for in a starter at this level. Good college career or not, he needs to speed up the progression process and learn not to panic. Until he does that, I (personally) wouldn't feel comfortable putting him where you're putting him. But, like I said, I've been wrong before and it is your list.

 

[varjao]

What?

How in the fudge factory do you put goff above prescott and carr(both playoff caliber QB's that were in the discussion for mvp last year, and then put russell wilson three ****ing tiers below Goff!?

Goff played 7 games last year and 5-7 td-int, and had a 64 passer rating.
Wilson started every game, and had a 92% rating, 2-1 Td-int ratio
Dak started everygame and had a 105 passer rating 23 td 4 int
Carr had a 98 rating 28td 6 int.

How many marijauna's did you take before you put jared "the bust" Goff tier 4 ahead of a ton of REALLY good QB's

Yeah hahuauhah, that list is bizarre in many ways.

 

[PatsBoy12]

In what I saw of him, I just didn't see it. He looked slow on both his pre-snap reads and his reads as the routes broke down. He also looked like he started down his primary read all too often and almost panicked when that primary was covered. Now, that could also be because he was a rookie. But I didn't see much to even project Goff into the third tier as of right now. That could change, of course. God knows I've been wrong before.



Fair enough. I didn't see nearly what you saw in Goff but, again, he was a rookie in a piss poor situation. That said, I don't think he displayed the kind of traits that you look for in a starter at this level. Good college career or not, he needs to speed up the progression process and learn not to panic. Until he does that, I (personally) wouldn't feel comfortable putting him where you're putting him. But, like I said, I've been wrong before and it is your list.

That's about the same as I how I feel about Goff at this time.

 

[PatsBoy12]

What?

How in the fudge factory do you put goff above prescott and carr(both playoff caliber QB's that were in the discussion for mvp last year, and then put russell wilson three ****ing tiers below Goff!?

Goff played 7 games last year and 5-7 td-int, and had a 64 passer rating.
Wilson started every game, and had a 92% rating, 2-1 Td-int ratio
Dak started everygame and had a 105 passer rating 23 td 4 int
Carr had a 98 rating 28td 6 int.

How many marijauna's did you take before you put jared "the bust" Goff tier 4 ahead of a ton of REALLY good QB's

Yeah, and that's not the only glaring flaw in his list either. LOL

 

[Kontradiction]

That's about the same as I how I feel about Goff at this time.

Aye. I also think that they aren't taking into account the fact that those types of situations can easily ruin quarterbacks. See: Carr, David.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Aye. I also think that they aren't taking into account the fact that those types of situations can easily ruin quarterbacks. See: Carr, David.

OH, absolutely. I still feel bad for Carr. I will always believe he could have been at least a mid-level QB in the league if the Texans FO had put a better line in front of him.