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OT: NFL wanted Sam drafted, made deal w Rams, Fisher...


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Sorry to nit pick, but with the ordeal of the Deflategate witch hunt that we are having to endure we need to be correct with our language.

Air does not leave a football when temperature decreases, the pressure decreases as the temperature decreases, and increases as the temperature increases.

I was about to respond with the same comment....beat me to it. As a physicist, this is one of my (many) pet peeves, particularly when people are referencing Deflateshit. No offense meant to anyone, but it really is important to get the language correct. It drives me nuts when people talk about the "weight" of the ball and such...

On a side note, I also work with a number of physicists, and despite knowing exactly what the IGL is, they refuse to believe Brady is innocent and nothing actually happened. For some, the hatred and willing blindness runs deep.
 
While I see the rest of your bullet points and know that you're being sincere, I think the first bullet point alone is problematic. Why should the NFL be concerned that Sam is drafted? So he can be a symbol? A trophy? A figurehead? So they can avoid a black eye?

It was clear that Sam's sexuality was a reason not to draft him, for reasons of media scrutiny and distraction if nothing else. It would have reasonable and admirable for the NFL to see if they could minimize the effect of that factor, if that is indeed what they did.
 
I was about to respond with the same comment....beat me to it. As a physicist, this is one of my (many) pet peeves, particularly when people are referencing Deflateshit. No offense meant to anyone, but it really is important to get the language correct. It drives me nuts when people talk about the "weight" of the ball and such...

On a side note, I also work with a number of physicists, and despite knowing exactly what the IGL is, they refuse to believe Brady is innocent and nothing actually happened. For some, the hatred and willing blindness runs deep.
Tell the doubters if the believe Brady's guilty, they can't be real physicists. That would actually be a true statement.

Either that or tell them they must have cheated their way through college.
 
I was about to respond with the same comment....beat me to it. As a physicist, this is one of my (many) pet peeves, particularly when people are referencing Deflateshit. No offense meant to anyone, but it really is important to get the language correct. It drives me nuts when people talk about the "weight" of the ball and such...

On a side note, I also work with a number of physicists, and despite knowing exactly what the IGL is, they refuse to believe Brady is innocent and nothing actually happened. For some, the hatred and willing blindness runs deep.

This does not surprise this engineer one bit. Scientists and engineers are people
People too often let ideology and its clone in this context, sports fandom, triumph over reason.
 
It's somewhat insulting to a person's, well, personhood. I wouldn't want to be paraded around and hailed as the "first" of anything.

It was good when the barrier-breaker was Jason Collins, I thought. An established NBA veteran who remained a useful player on the court for a bad team. I'm very glad Sam came out, but I think an NFL veteran who's still in the league coming out would be a much better situation for this purpose (the overall effects of which are overplayed) because there are none of the questions about talent and the player will have a better grasp on how to handle the spotlight.
 
It was clear that Sam's sexuality was a reason not to draft him, for reasons of media scrutiny and distraction if nothing else. It would have reasonable and admirable for the NFL to see if they could minimize the effect of that factor, if that is indeed what they did.


It may have been A reason, but its not THE reason teams didn't draft him. That reason was the fact that hes not just not very good, he couldn't make it in the nfl(at least two teams gave him a shot) and he also couldn't make it in the CFL.
 
It may have been A reason, but its not THE reason teams didn't draft him. That reason was the fact that hes not just not very good, he couldn't make it in the nfl(at least two teams gave him a shot) and he also couldn't make it in the CFL.

Of course.

If he had been an early-round talent without the baggage, he would have gotten drafted, definitely, even if his draft position might have been a little worse than that he'd have gotten with a conventional sexuality.

His talent -- or lack thereof -- is why he was around the bubble between late-round pick and UDFA.

The irony here is that, as per his quote, being a UDFA can be better than being a late pick, because you get to choose your team.
 
It may have been A reason, but its not THE reason teams didn't draft him. That reason was the fact that hes not just not very good, he couldn't make it in the nfl(at least two teams gave him a shot) and he also couldn't make it in the CFL.

My understanding was that he quit the CFL due to mental health issues, not that he didn't make it. He did play a game or two in Montreal. Either way, whether he had the talent or not, he was a very young guy who was never prepared for the mantle that had been placed upon him as the barrier-breaker. I don't think there's many people who would have been prepared for that at 23. The fact that he was a borderline talent didn't help, either. Jason Collins was much better prepared because he had been in the NBA for 15 years and knew how to handle the spotlight, and was at the end of a good career, so he also had nothing to really worry about in the future and could just give the Nets what he had given teams his entire career, good defense and five hard fouls.
 
I had always assumed, having never watched him, that no team would be so stupid to draft based on anything but tallent. So I assumed he was decent enough to think he might make it.

Is he really that bad, and was I really that naive. :eek:

Remember back when Wells was hired and all these lawyers here were like "OH he's really respected this will be objective and independent, we are all set." And now they are saying "He did a great job, the NFL hired him to tarnish the Patriots legacy and that's what he did."

In other words, everyone sucks and is always wrong about everything and confabulates after the fact to make it seem like they don't suck. Except maybe joker, but that's because he already thinks everyone sucks.

I also suck, and this sentence, also, is false.
 
Tell the doubters if the believe Brady's guilty, they can't be real physicists. That would actually be a true statement.

Either that or tell them they must have cheated their way through college.

LOL. Interesting ideas....I'll consider those in the future.

One guy in particular just needs to be reminded that he is a Bills fan....that is usually all I need to say since he quickly remembers how miserable the last few years (decades???) have been. But in truth the people (scientists at work) I get the most **** from are close friends and it only really comes up during happy hour. I've pressed them and in the end they usually concede that the entire situation was a hatchet job. They aren't stupid, they know the IGL is real (unlike the muppets on Park Ave), but they a) like to get a rise out of me, and b) really dislike the Patriots...particularly the Bills fan.

Now, as for the Ravens fans walking around in my building....holy hell are they a dumb group. Not even worth the discussion.
 
I was about to respond with the same comment....beat me to it. As a physicist, this is one of my (many) pet peeves, particularly when people are referencing Deflateshit. No offense meant to anyone, but it really is important to get the language correct. It drives me nuts when people talk about the "weight" of the ball and such...

On a side note, I also work with a number of physicists, and despite knowing exactly what the IGL is, they refuse to believe Brady is innocent and nothing actually happened. For some, the hatred and willing blindness runs deep.

Welcome to Patsfans.com! It is nice to have another physicist on board.

I work with other physicists also (I'm a prof), but I've never had the problem with denial and hatred about Deflategate because it would never occur to me to talk Patriots football with my colleagues (admittedly, the fact I live in Alabama makes that a little easier than for you Bostonians).

THAT IS WHAT PATSFAN.COM IS FOR, TO TALK PATRIOTS FOOTBALL!! :D
 
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So you're saying a very PR driven NFL led by people who cast aside others rights/due process and have demonstrated no concern for lying/media manipulation has made a decision that was based on PR, lies and media manipulation? Huh, that's a weird coincidence.

There's a PR 'cred' industry resulting in a unspoken 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. That the NFL participates in it especially given their past behavior ranks at a zero on the 1 to 10 'how surprising' scale. The only thing surprising here is that a major media publication would actually write the story.
 
LOL. Interesting ideas....I'll consider those in the future.

One guy in particular just needs to be reminded that he is a Bills fan....that is usually all I need to say since he quickly remembers how miserable the last few years (decades???) have been. But in truth the people (scientists at work) I get the most **** from are close friends and it only really comes up during happy hour. I've pressed them and in the end they usually concede that the entire situation was a hatchet job. They aren't stupid, they know the IGL is real (unlike the muppets on Park Ave), but they a) like to get a rise out of me, and b) really dislike the Patriots...particularly the Bills fan.

Now, as for the Ravens fans walking around in my building....holy hell are they a dumb group. Not even worth the discussion.
I thought being a Ravens fan would disqualify them from becoming physicists?! Maybe they converted after they became physicists
 
Welcome to Patsfans.com! It is nice to have another physicist on board.

I work with other physicists also (I'm a prof), but I've never had the problem with denial and hatred about Deflategate because it would never occur to me to talk Patriots football with my colleagues (admittedly, the fact I live in Alabama makes that a little easier than for you Bostonians).

THAT IS WHAT PATSFAN.COM IS FOR, TO TALK PATRIOTS FOOTBALL!! :D

Thanks! I've actually been following this forum for quite a few years and finally decided to pull the trigger and register an account. Wish I had that ah-ha moment years ago. I guess physicists are in short supply here...though it does seem there are quite a few lawyers.

I work with a variety of scientists in general, mostly young people (30s) like myself so weekly HH and football discussions are a regular part of the work week for me. I'd figure maybe it might be a bit harder in an academic setting, such as yours, but I really don't have a good reference point on that. I just recall what my physics dept. was like and there wasn't much talk about football, that's for certain. I'm also a NE transplant (grew up in MA) to the DC/Baltimore area....hence the multitude of Ravens fans at my place of employment.

Oops....just realized I'm way off topic in this thread.....
 
I thought being a Ravens fan would disqualify them from becoming physicists?! Maybe they converted after they became physicists

The hilarity of your comment is that the most ardent and vocal Ravens fans here are NOT scientists. They are usually the movers, carpenters, electricians, etc. I work in a large facility with about 5000 people so we have an entire set of support staff. Those are the "true believers" in Deflateshit. Nice people....just can't expect to hold rational football conversations with them.

The actual scientist-types and engineers that happen to be Ravens fans are tolerable and often come around to admitting the situation is a farce.....but also say they are happy to see us getting slapped down....
 
Even when the NFL tries to manufacture a PR win, they come out looking like clowns.

That said, I do have some sympathy for the league here, if only because Michael Sam was the worst kind of prospect to be the first openly gay player in the draft. His weaknesses were obvious enough that the likelihood of him getting drafted on his own merits was quite low. But he had performed well enough in the SEC to provide some ammo that moral crusaders could use to 'prove' that homophobia was what made him go undrafted.

Anyone who knew football understood that he was a borderline prospect at best, but "how could someone who performed so well in the SEC not be a viable draft prospect?" is an argument that would play very well with people who are casual fans or non-fans. It would've been much better for the NFL if Sam was either clearly not NFL-caliber or if he clearly was NFL-caliber (in which case I believe he would have been drafted by someone on his own merits).

I was happy when he got drafted. Figured the Rams saw enough talent to be worth taking a shot on, and it was hilarious watching homophobes go nuts for being 'forced' to watch him kiss his boyfriend. I rooted for him to succeed, in part because eventually an openly gay player in a major American sport will succeed, and when that happens I think a lot of people holding onto outdated beliefs will gradually come to confront and dismiss them. Stuff like that is exactly why sports are a fantastic vehicle for social progress. They bring people into your life, and by watching those people they occasionally motivate you to question beliefs that maybe need to be questioned. There's no doubt in my mind that a whole lot of New Englanders who might have otherwise been more inclined to racism were nudged in the right direction by years of watching Boston sports icons like Bill Russell, David Ortiz, Paul Pierce, KG, Wilfork, etc. This certainly didn't fix the problem, but even if it softens what would have been a more hardline stance, that's progress. It counts for something.

Michael Sam didn't end up being that guy, and that's fine. For what I just described to work, it's absolutely vital that the player in question make it on his own merits. Trying to manufacture it will, if anything, have the opposite effect. It will further entrench prejudices, further the idea that some have that a gay man can't succeed in the NFL on his own merits, etc. Proving, once again, that the league cares way more about image than it does about doing the right thing (or even allowing the right thing to be done). To the point that it'll gladly work against the latter in service to the former.
 
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He was drafted and cut by the Rams, spent a few weeks on the Cowboys practice squad, invited to the veterans combine, and then went to Canada. He cannot argue that he was not given a fair shake.
 
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