Jets postgame - a football discussion

[Box_O_Rocks]

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php...lRUV5eTY5OTQ1NDkmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Excellent Read!

The Jets' 3-4 defense is a work in progress, and we didn't have to go longer than Week 2, in a comparison against the unit it's trying to emulate, to see the amount of work that still remains.

The Patriots gave an idea of how much by running at the Jets, throwing at them and -- in one stark late-game instance -- outsmarting them.
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The big problems: Center Dan Koppen and guard Stephen Neal led the charge in neutralizing nose tackle Dewayne Robertson and linebacker Jonathan Vilma.

A quiet J-Vil performed the way many feared he would in the 3-4: Interior linemen could more easily get to the second tier and obstruct Vilma as he flew to the ball. On all four of the Pats' runs of 10-plus yards, Vilma was walled off by either Neal or Koppen.

With the running game clicking, Tom Brady was at his opponent-frustrating best. In the first half he worked over the Jets' safeties with his tight ends. In the second half he turned to Kevin Faulk, who forced penalties against Victor Hobson and Erik Coleman, then made two first-down catches against Coleman and Vilma on the Pats' final drive.

The Jets tried to rattle Brady's cage, sending five or more rushers 14 times, but their only success was Kerry Rhodes' blindside "blitz coverage" sack and forced fumble early in the fourth quarter.

Makes you wonder how long before Vilma is moved to SS. For all the lame Thunder & Lightening attempts at a backfield nickname, very few have remembered Kevin's disruptive presence in the playbook.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Boohoo, Mangini doesn't know as much about coaching a team as Rich Cimini, wah!

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/454142p-382153c.html

Looks like the Jets have their NT...

Backup NT Rashad Moore is an underrated run stuffer. In 11 running plays with Moore, the Jets allowed 32 yards (2.9 average) against the Pats. In 27 plays with starter Dewayne Robertson, they yielded 115 (4.2).

 

[Mike the Brit]

Boohoo, Mangini doesn't know as much about coaching a team as Rich Cimini, wah!

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/454142p-382153c.html

Looks like the Jets have their NT...

I thought that the Pats had it tough with the Boston media!

By the way, Cimini is wrong to slant it that the Patriots only made the transition to 3-4 when Washington happened to come along, isn't he? -- my recollection is that they went out and got Big Ted when it was apparent that they would have trouble up the middle when running the 3-4.

Actually, I'd like to pay credit to the Jets. They played a good, hard, never-say-die game there at the end.

I know that lots of our posters delight to mock Pennington, but I always thought that he was an excellent quarterback when healthy and he looked pretty good to me on Sunday. What's more, I'm confirmed in my admiration for Laveranues Coles. He's another player that some people disrespect but I recall when he was playing for Washington and having injury problems, he played with immense desire and tried to make plays on a team that elsewhere seemed pretty much to have given up. (REALLY stupid name, though. What next -- Shirleus?)

 

[dryheat44]

I thought that the Pats had it tough with the Boston media!

By the way, Cimini is wrong to slant it that the Patriots only made the transition to 3-4 when Washington happened to come along, isn't he? -- my recollection is that they went out and got Big Ted when it was apparent that they would have trouble up the middle when running the 3-4.

Yes, he's wrong. The Pats played a 3-4 previous to Big Ted's arrival, with Seymour and Rick Lyle (and I think somebody else) setting up on the nose.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Yes, he's wrong. The Pats played a 3-4 previous to Big Ted's arrival, with Seymour and Rick Lyle (and I think somebody else) setting up on the nose.

In 2002, they tried to use funny guy Steve Martin (former Jet) at NT, but he sucked greatly. It was then that they switched to using others like Lyle and even Anthony Pleasant (I think).

In the 2001 season, Brandon Mitchell was sometimes used at NT when they played 3 down linemen, but mostly we played in a 4-3. I wished we had kept Mitchell... he was at least servicable... but he left for more money, following Chad Eaton to Seattle.

 

[Bella*chick]

I know that lots of our posters delight to mock Pennington, but I always thought that he was an excellent quarterback when healthy and he looked pretty good to me on Sunday. What's more, I'm confirmed in my admiration for Laveranues Coles. He's another player that some people disrespect but I recall when he was playing for Washington and having injury problems, he played with immense desire and tried to make plays on a team that elsewhere seemed pretty much to have given up. (REALLY stupid name, though. What next -- Shirleus?)

Yeah, I thought before his slew of injuries, which I suppose earned him the nickname Noodle Arm, Pennington was actually one of the better QBs in the league. He looks pretty good so far this year, no question about it. If he's able to remain uninjured, I think he's a pretty good QB.

One thing about Coles, he did not want to be in Washington from almost the start.

 

[jeffd]

Yeah, I thought before his slew of injuries, which I suppose earned him the nickname Noodle Arm, Pennington was actually one of the better QBs in the league. He looks pretty good so far this year, no question about it. If he's able to remain uninjured, I think he's a pretty good QB.

One thing about Coles, he did not want to be in Washington from almost the start.

Chad had a noodle arm before the surgeries. He is a smart, accurate QB but he's got no arm strength.

 

[Mike the Brit]

One thing about Coles, he did not want to be in Washington from almost the start.

I shouldn't think it would be much fun trying to spark a passing offense with Patrick Ramsey throwing the ball and James Thrash as the other deep threat ("threat"?)

 

[dryheat44]

One thing about Coles, he did not want to be in Washington from almost the start.

Well, then, he shouldn't have signed the offer sheet they presented him with.

He was Washington's leading receiver, on a broken big toe. I think he's in the top 10 WRs in the game, no question. I wish we had him.

 

[Bella*chick]

Well, then, he shouldn't have signed the offer sheet they presented him with.

He was Washington's leading receiver, on a broken big toe. I think he's in the top 10 WRs in the game, no question. I wish we had him.

Yeah, I guess he had a very hard time turning down the money, who knows. I also know that when he left, it came out that he had many emotional problems (sexually molested as a child, I think) and that may have contributed to his demeanor. I don't really know though, I just got the info from the Redskins messageboards.

I think Coles is a great receiver, too, and my guess is that he is much happier as a Jet.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Yes, he's wrong. The Pats played a 3-4 previous to Big Ted's arrival, with Seymour and Rick Lyle (and I think somebody else) setting up on the nose.

Warren, Jarvis and perhaps even Klecko played the nose in the weeks prior to Washington's arrival. Also, I recall BB stating that the role and assignment of the NT position was a bit different with TW.

 

[AzPatsFan]

In 2002, they tried to use funny guy Steve Martin (former Jet) at NT, but he sucked greatly. It was then that they switched to using others like Lyle and even Anthony Pleasant (I think).

In the 2001 season, Brandon Mitchell was sometimes used at NT when they played 3 down linemen, but mostly we played in a 4-3. I wished we had kept Mitchell... he was at least servicable... but he left for more money, following Chad Eaton to Seattle.

And Jarvis Green too, but only on passing plays as I recall...

 

[AzPatsFan]

Chad had a noodle arm before the surgeries. He is a smart, accurate QB but he's got no arm strength.

Penny is proof that Qb play is 90% mental and 10% physical. After setting all kinds of collegiate records throwing to the most talented WR now in the NFL, he was taken in the draft by the Jets even though many said he did not have an NFL arm.

He is very accurate throwing the short to intermediate pass sometimes throwing into the low 70% completion rate. Yet he has no arm for the deep pass or the deep out.

He reminds me of Brian Sipe, a QB who didn't belong on the field, yet still won his fair share just from knowing where to throw the ball and when, even if he couldn't make all the throws.

 

[Oswlek]

Penny is proof that Qb play is 90% mental and 10% physical. After setting all kinds of collegiate records throwing to the most talented WR now in the NFL, he was taken in the draft by the Jets even though many said he did not have an NFL arm.

He is very accurate throwing the short to intermediate pass sometimes throwing into the low 70% completion rate. Yet he has no arm for the deep pass or the deep out.

He reminds me of Brian Sipe, a QB who didn't belong on the field, yet still won his fair share just from knowing where to throw the ball and when, even if he couldn't make all the throws.

I actually think more highly of Pennington that most on this board. I have stated in the past (although I have backed off it a little) that NE could have done nearly as well in 2001-2003 with Penny instead of Brady. I made this statement back then assuming health, of course, which hasn't exactly worked out well.

All that said, I find it humorous that Pennington needs two hail mary plays to get his team into the end zone from the his 45 yard line. That is defintely a weak arm.

 

[dryheat44]

Penny is proof that Qb play is 90% mental and 10% physical. After setting all kinds of collegiate records throwing to the most talented WR now in the NFL, he was taken in the draft by the Jets even though many said he did not have an NFL arm.

He is very accurate throwing the short to intermediate pass sometimes throwing into the low 70% completion rate. Yet he has no arm for the deep pass or the deep out.

He reminds me of Brian Sipe, a QB who didn't belong on the field, yet still won his fair share just from knowing where to throw the ball and when, even if he couldn't make all the throws.

Very good post.

For my money, I don't care what kind of leadership intangibles you bring, or how well you read defenses, if you can't throw a 15 yard out on a rope, then you don't have the requisite arm strength to be a consistently good NFL quarterback. Who cares if you can throw it through the goalposts from your own thirty yard line? But if you can't throw a bullet to the outside, NFL corners are going to kill you.

 

[Pawn512]

I actually think the Jets offense did a decent job of hiding their weaknesses (vertical passing, power running) and maximizing their strengths (short passing game). They just don't have a whole lot to work with talent-wise, particularly at OL & RB, but they are competitive. Pennington is a pretty good QB as long as they don't ask him to do things he's not physically capable of. He just limits the offensive playbook.

On defense I was struck by how bad Vilma looked in a 3-4. He was getting completely manhandled by Mankins/Neal on most of the Pats running plays.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

On defense I was struck by how bad Vilma looked in a 3-4. He was getting completely manhandled by Mankins/Neal on most of the Pats running plays.

Bowling Ball with Knives looked even worse. After Dillon and Maroney were racking up decent chunks of yards running straight up the guy, the Jets finally had to take the guy out.

It's getting somewhat irritation watching these Pats v Jets games. The Jets get dominated on both sides of the ball only to have Penny dink and dunk the Pats D to boredom while managing to find the endzone on broken or fluke plays.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Report Cards Week 2: Jets - Patriots
http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=65&p=2&c=571243

Nothing we didn't know...except another commentator who thinks kicks are only blocked if they're low.