Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advantage?

[Pats726]

I heard from teh promo that Lynch was going to explain all that and I wondered if anyone saw that and IF it made sense given the logistics of the situation. Give how bozo Schlereth made statements that could not possibly have happened..and how PFT seemed to think it almost impossible, I wonder what his take was on that???

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I heard from teh promo that Lynch was going to explain all that and I wondered if anyone saw that and IF it made sense given the logistics of the situation. Give how bozo Schlereth made statements that could not possibly have happened..and how PFT seemed to think it almost impossible, I wonder what his take was on that???

I'm literally DYING to know the answer to this one as I have found zilch over the last two days on this.

and for the record, Schlereth's assertion was that "stealing signals" posed a competitive advantage. well, no duh. He did NOT explain how VIDEOTAPING the sidelines poses an advantage.

If anyone can find anything on how videotaping specifically helps the pats beyond what could be achieved through legal means, please for the love of god, post it here.

edit:

this is the closest thing I've found in print. but despite reiss's first sentence, this piece is about the advantage of stealing signals, not videotaping them.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/12/in_nfl_stealers_have_edge/

i still haven't seen a valid account of how videotaping sidelines helps you win games. happy to read it if anyone can find it.

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i still haven't seen a valid account of how videotaping sidelines helps you win games. happy to read it if anyone can find it.

Oh just listen to WEEI this morning. D&C had plenty to say on it. Did you know that every successful play the Patriots have run on offense under BB has been successful because of "cheating"?

Or watch ESPN, you get the same idea from some of the "experts". Or NFL-N. Or any number of other outlets. It is scary how this has turned into a damning of the Patriots vs exposing potentially a larger, league-wide issue.

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Oh just listen to WEEI this morning. D&C had plenty to say on it. Did you know that every successful play the Patriots have run on offense under BB has been successful because of "cheating"?

Or watch ESPN, you get the same idea from some of the "experts". Or NFL-N. Or any number of other outlets. It is scary how this has turned into a damning of the Patriots vs exposing potentially a larger, league-wide issue.

If I was Tom Brady, I wouldn't go back on their show. I wonder if they have the balls to go say that to Charlie Weiss. He called the plays here for 5 years. There's a lot of piling on going on around here, a lot of lies, rumors and inuendo. I'm not going to listen to anymore of it. I'll wait and hear what the commissioner has to say. Until then, EEI has lost a listener.

 

[ribanez]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I heard from teh promo that Lynch was going to explain all that and I wondered if anyone saw that and IF it made sense given the logistics of the situation. Give how bozo Schlereth made statements that could not possibly have happened..and how PFT seemed to think it almost impossible, I wonder what his take was on that???

The way I understood it from Schlereth was this...

Cameraman tapes Jets giving defensive signals. Tape reviewed at halftime and signals matched up with specific defensive formations. In the 2nd half, coaches specifically look for signals and calls plays or make audibles to best exploit those defensive formations.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage this could be in practical application, but it's feasible to me that this is how it could be viewed as an unfair competative advantage.

 

[labman]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I'm literally DYING to know the answer to this one as I have found zilch over the last two days on this.

and for the record, Schlereth's assertion was that "stealing signals" posed a competitive advantage. well, no duh. He did NOT explain how VIDEOTAPING the sidelines poses an advantage.

If anyone can find anything on how videotaping specifically helps the pats beyond what could be achieved through legal means, please for the love of god, post it here.

If videotaping did not yield the Pats an advantage, then why have they repeatedly done it? They certainly would not have continued to go through the trouble of doing it if it did not yield benefits.

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

If videotaping did not yield the Pats an advantage, then why have they repeatedly done it? They certainly would not have continued to go through the trouble of doing it if it did not yield benefits.

so what are they?

 

[Boston Boxer]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

The way I understood it from Schlereth was this...

Cameraman tapes Jets giving defensive signals. Tape reviewed at halftime and signals matched up with specific defensive formations. In the 2nd half, coaches specifically look for signals and calls plays or make audibles to best exploit those defensive formations.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage this could be in practical application, but it's feasible to me that this is how it could be viewed as an unfair competative advantage.

half time is only 15 minutes long...no way they can do all this during half time.

 

[labman]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

so what are they?

How the hell would I know. Ask BB and get back to us.

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

The way I understood it from Schlereth was this...

Cameraman tapes Jets giving defensive signals. Tape reviewed at halftime and signals matched up with specific defensive formations. In the 2nd half, coaches specifically look for signals and calls plays or make audibles to best exploit those defensive formations.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage this could be in practical application, but it's feasible to me that this is how it could be viewed as an unfair competative advantage.

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper. do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video? my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

 

[naclone]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

How the hell would I know. Ask BB and get back to us.

that's my point. we don't know. and nobody can produce methodology or any reasonable explanation as to why its unfair.

and until i see that, I remain skeptical that this is a big deal.

 

[Patters]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

I read somewhere that the videographer shoots the signals while talking into the camera telling what's actually happening with the opponents D on the field. This can obviously be looked at fairly quickly and some basic info deduced.

The Globe has an article that gives some insight into the advantage:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/12/in_nfl_stealers_have_edge/

The key advantage seems to be that it could help you in a critical play or two if you succeed in deciphering the signals and communicating that to the QB.

From the article:

Mark Whipple, the former University of Massachusetts head coach and Pittsburgh Steelers quarterbacks coach. "'It always comes to one play, the fourth quarter, and if you can make that call, at that time, and you know what they're doing, it's a great advantage.'

...

"One NFL assistant explained that the offense already has a built-in advantage because the quarterback has a communication device in his helmet that allows him to hear an assistant coach while in the huddle. If the offensive team identifies the defensive personnel on the field - and decodes the signal relayed to those defenders - it's possible the quarterback could be told what to expect."

...

"'If you know the coverages for the passing game and when a defense is going to come with a blitz, you can have the counter for those moves ready and it sure makes it a lot easier,'" Whipple said.

 

[makoute]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper. do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video? my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

If it has no benefit, then it makes this even worse.

 

[labman]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper. do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video? my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

Then why are they doing it?

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper. do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video? my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

The ability to review at a later date. Everyone is getting up in arms about the Jet game, but that is terribly naive and foolish. There is just no enough time to break the film down unless the camera transmitted a live feed to someone else who was breaking the plays down live. But then, like you said how is that all that much different from just having a guy jotting down the signals, plays and formations? All it does is complicate it *and* add evidence.

But where it will help is with reviewing at a later date. To have a catalog of signals from all relevent coaches in the league would come in very handy.

Oddly enough, people are making accusations that couldn't possibly happen, but the real possibility is worse. It is entirely realistic to believe that NE taped the calls from the three Jet games last year and used that info in this game.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

The way I understood it from Schlereth was this...

Cameraman tapes Jets giving defensive signals. Tape reviewed at halftime and signals matched up with specific defensive formations. In the 2nd half, coaches specifically look for signals and calls plays or make audibles to best exploit those defensive formations.

I'm not sure how much of an advantage this could be in practical application, but it's feasible to me that this is how it could be viewed as an unfair competative advantage.

OK...they tape signals..but there are 3 people giving signals...from a point of view AT the Jets bench where he was could he get all 3 in the pic? THAT is a technical thing..and I wonder even about this given the anles..but let's say yes..he can get all 3. So..he tapes the defensive signals....maybe 15-20 minutes of that?? More?? So at half time..where they have 12 minutes..they will review and match the tape with photos?? Maybe if there was a LONG time..an hour or so..but it just makes no sense. One could actually do it easier without ANY video..and just noting the signals with binoculars...
The mechanics of what he said do NOT match the realities of the situation...

 

[vyrago]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

More accurate?

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

OK...they tape signals..but there are 3 people giving signals...from a point of view AT the Jets bench where he was could he get all 3 in the pic? THAT is a technical thing..and I wonder even about this given the anles..but let's say yes..he can get all 3. So..he tapes the defensive signals....maybe 15-20 minutes of that?? More?? So at half time..where they have 12 minutes..they will review and match the tape with photos?? Maybe if there was a LONG time..an hour or so..but it just makes no sense. One could actually do it easier without ANY video..and just noting the signals with binoculars...
The mechanics of what he said do NOT match the realities of the situation...

This has been my contention from the onset, what is the advantage... as time goes on it seems more and more that this is about a rule violation, not about cheating.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

i understand how it is possible. what i don't understand, and what nobody has been able to produce yet, is how the videotape makes it any easier or more effective than simply writing down the signals on a piece of paper. do you have any idea how time consuming it is to break down 90 minutes of video? my point is, videotaping does not appear to give any advantage over legal methods of stealing signals. if it does, what are they?

Does it really matter? It doesn't. The NFL is OK with stealing signs. Even stealing them off video is OK. The NFL just thinks videotaping is illegal. Upsetting the competitive balance? Please. The NFL doesn't care.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Did anyone hear Mike Lynch's explanation of how the video gave the Pats an advant

Oddly enough, people are making accusations that couldn't possibly happen, but the real possibility is worse. It is entirely realistic to believe that NE taped the calls from the three Jet games last year and used that info in this game.

That would require that Mangini would know about the Pats' taping, yet not change the signals. Somehow, that doesn't compute either.