Broncos sign Aqib Talib

simpletruth said:

Fair enough. That could be. I could be adversely affected by those defenders I see because it gets so old.

I am sick to death of those that act as though he can do no wrong.

Let me clarify that... those that act as though no one would have done better. Meaning "what do you expect, everyone makes mistakes". Well not everyone has one of the best QBs of all time (in a division with three teams in QB hell the entire time). Especially one proven to be so clutch when he had the necessary talent around him.

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Honestly.. I will let your response to Supafly in post #314 speak for me.

In it, it appears to me (but maybe Im wrong) that you are accusing Supafly of blind homerism. At best, you are simply using some very baiting rhetoric in describing Belichick's thought processes in letting some high-priced talent go to FA..

For the record, Supafly is NOT a "blind homer". He is one of the most incredibly objective and well-thought out posters I have had the joy of reading.

Danger Zone said:

Honestly.. I will let your response to Supafly in post #314 speak for me.

In it, you are basically calling Supafly a blind homer and using some very baiting rhetoric in describing Belichick's actions in letting high-priced talent go to FA.

For the record, Supafly is NOT a "blind homer". He is one of the most incredibly objective and well-thought out posters I have had the joy of reading.

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Huh? You couldn't be more wrong. I was in NO WAY calling Supafly a blind homer. I was responding to Supafly's mentions of the real problem being free agency choices and talent evaluation. I was SUPPORTING what Supafly was saying and expounding on it. Then taking that and pointing out how not being objectively critical of it is where the blind homers lie.

I apologize Supafly if you feel I was calling you a blind homer, I fail to see how that came across, but apparently someone sees it that way.

As for your claim of "baiting rhetoric", please explain where you see any point that I made as being off base. Are you saying you do not see the trend here?

Are you saying BB is willing to pay the talent that the team has to retain them?

It really comes across as though what you don't like to hear or read is what you consider "baiting rhetoric".

simpletruth said:

Huh? You couldn't be more wrong. I was in NO WAY calling Supafly a blind homer. I was responding to Supafly's mentions of the real problem being free agency choices and talent evaluation. I was SUPPORTING what Supafly was saying and expounding on it. Then taking that and pointing out how not being objectively critical of it is where the blind homers lie.

I apologize Supafly if you feel I was calling you a blind homer, I fail to see how that came across, but apparently someone sees it that way.

As for your claim of "baiting rhetoric", please explain where you see any point that I made as being off base. Are you saying you do not see the trend here?

Are you saying BB is willing to pay the talent that the team has to retain them?

It really comes across as though what you don't like to hear or read is what you consider "baiting rhetoric".

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All right.

#1 - I was wrong about you calling Supafly a blind homer (though I pre-admitted I might be).

That's just it, it is not spending the money. I never said that. It is the choices. BB's ego gets in the way. His "patriot way" mantra has been revealed to mean "you are not the reason we are winning, I am". When a star is on the team and he wants attention/credit/big money deal, he is quickly jettisoned. YOU NEED THOSE PLAYERS. Yet he gets rid of them.

The only two players I see that have survived his "get rid of him" outlook on those that make a difference are Tom and Vince. I figure Bob had a lot to do with Vince surviving the typical purge of a talent like him, seeing as how he is family.

Other than them BB does seem to have an affinity for olinemen, maybe it is their typical personality (or I don't know what) but they do tend to get taken care of more than anyone else.

Randy Moss was taking the team to unprecedented heights. He wanted to be PAID and be on the team. Yeah, **** that, get rid of him. Oh and then all the fans will talk **** about him and trash him after the fact.

Wes Welker wanted just a little more respect for what he had done for the team, you know maybe a couple of million more a season than a team he had done NOTHING for was offering him? What did he get? **** on by BB and Bob. Then the fans jumped in to pile on in good measure.

Hey Asante Samual you are pretty bad ass, what was that? You want to get paid? GET THE **** OUT OF HERE.

Deion you are amazingly clutch and Tom loves throwing to you. What? Get paid? GET THE **** OUT OF HERE.

Ty who could ask any more from you and have you deliver? GET THE **** OUT OF HERE.

Aqib, you came through and did everything asked of you. GET THE **** OUT OF HERE.

Julian, you are a great guy and the poster boy for a team player. GET THE **** OUT OF HERE.

I mean come on. Really? When does the reality crash through the blind homerism?

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#2 - Other exceptions to your list of two, include Mankins, Gronk and Hernandez.

#3 - It is baiting rhetoric in my opinion to: set up the Players as wide-eyed Oliver's holding out a pitiful wooden bowl and whimpering: "Please Sir, I want some more" while pretending Belichick was mocking them for their temerity and saying "GET THE **** OUT OF HERE!".

My point being, that you easily could have made your arguments without all the pretend mind-reading, mocking and play-acting between Belichick and the Players.

THAT's what brings out the "homers"..

.. "homers" that would otherwise have stayed silent if you had simply stated your criticisms and made your points about the validity of paying top dollar for top talent.

Do people even comprehend cap room? We aren't exactly at a luxury. We CAN'T AFFORD to give Talib that kind of money if we want to keep this team competitive....expecially when you have a gaping hole at LB, Blount and Edelman to factor in to resigning. Wih no re-structured deals as of yet.

People talking of BB's ego need to get with the program and stop droning on.

People were all over BB for the Welker situation last year and look how that turned out...not to mention it was Welker's fault for over-estimating his value. I have seen far too many JAG/run down/beat up WRs turned in to top tier players by TFB to even give a damn right now. Let's see what Edelman takes (be it with us or someone else) before we start judging.

That is too much for a corner who hasn't stayed healthy since he got here....especially to a team that has A LOT of FAs and limited cap room to resign them with.

Everyone, including Patriot fans, underrate the Patriots because they're so used to not having Gronk. With Gronk healthy we stomp Denver like we always do with Gronk healthy.

GRONK! GRONK! GRONK!

Danger Zone said:

All right.

#1 - I was wrong about you calling Supafly a blind homer (though I pre-admitted I might be).



#2 - Other exceptions to your list of two, include Mankins, Gronk and Hernandez.

#3 - It is baiting rhetoric in my opinion to: set up the Players as wide-eyed Oliver's holding out a pitiful wooden bowl and whimpering: "Please Sir, I want some more" while pretending Belichick was mocking them for their temerity and saying "Get the **** out of here".

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Mankins is not an exception reread my comment. I said for whatever reason BB has an affinity for olinemen.

Gronk and Aaron were a very unusual deal. I called it incredibly stupid at the time, because it was (when they were so young and you really didn't know what you had yet) and far out of the norm for BB. The oddity of it being they were not proven being so young on their rookie deals. Gronk was an injury concern and Aaron was a character concern. I would have thought it would have been more prudent to wait until you had to extend them. It was really odd that they were extended for so much money well before they needed to be.

Based on BB's history that was completely out of character.

Oh come on. I am not painting them as some helpless souls begging for a bowl of soup, while BB kicks them and tells them to beg off. I am pointing out the very reality that when the team has stars that make a real difference between winning and losing and they want their recognition/payday the trend of BB is to let them leave. As far as I am concerned that is the same as telling them "get the **** out out of here, you are not the reason we win, I am". I am a firm believer his ego gets in the way.

I am sick for Tom. He deserves better.

You can call that rhetoric. Fine. The trend is going on many years and I am just calling it what it is.

looking forward to the compensatory pick.




Honestly. Thats a crazy deal. good luck to him.

PATS16N0 said:

Everyone, including Patriot fans, underrate the Patriots because they're so used to not having Gronk. With Gronk healthy we stomp Denver like we always do with Gronk healthy.

GRONK! GRONK! GRONK!

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I'm aure Gronk will be out there rushing manning and covering Thomas. It's more then Gronk being healthy for a change.

simpletruth said:

...Oh come on. I am not painting them as some helpless souls begging for a bowl of soup, while BB kicks them and tells them to beg off. I am pointing out the very reality that when the team has stars that make a real difference between winning and losing and they want their recognition/payday the trend of BB is to let them leave. As far as I am concerned that is the same as telling them "get the **** out out of here, you are not the reason we win, I am". I am a firm believer his ego gets in the way.

I am sick for Tom. He deserves better.

You can call that rhetoric. Fine. The trend is going on many years and I am just calling it what it is.

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My point all along has been.

1. Most people that get labelled as "homers" dont mind that you are criticizing Belichick. He is human. He makes mistakes. Maybe his value-first/only approach could use some tweaking. We get that. We might even agree with you.

2. Pretending you can read Belichick's mind and writing down all the evil ways he mocks these Players as he boots them to FA is not productive. Your message however valid (or invalid) gets lost in the rhetoric. That is what brings the "homers" out of the woodwork.

slash83 said:

I'm aure Gronk will be out there rushing manning and covering Thomas. It's more then Gronk being healthy for a change.

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Well, unless you think the Patriots should have paid 11 M a year for Talib I don't know what there is to be upset about.

The Bucs are going to release Revis, I don't think anyone is going to pay him 16M a year, he probably wants a ring, we might be able to get him for that.

And anyway, for all the "Denver is a super team" hysteria, I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed. Every single season they lost to the majority of good teams they play. When Gronk was healthy we statistically had the best offense in the league last year. They beat us in the AFCCG last year but we didnt have Gronk and didn't have Talib and didn't have plenty of others.

I'm sorry but I just don't fear Denver. Not anywhere near the cliff right now

I'm not sure why I feel embarrassed reading the opinions of the CL brigade one day into Free Agency but I do.

PATS16N0 said:

Well, unless you think the Patriots should have paid 11 M a year for Talib I don't know what there is to be upset about.

The Bucs are going to release Revis, I don't think anyone is going to pay him 16M a year, he probably wants a ring, we might be able to get him for that.

And anyway, for all the "Denver is a super team" hysteria, I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed. Every single season they lost to the majority of good teams they play. When Gronk was healthy we statistically had the best offense in the league last year. They beat us in the AFCCG last year but we didnt have Gronk and didn't have Talib and didn't have plenty of others.

I'm sorry but I just don't fear Denver. Not anywhere near the cliff right now

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Talib isn't getting 11 mil a year I believe it's 9. And if I had to guess I think the pats would of paid that as top dollar, the gurusnteed is a joke though.

slash83 said:

Talib isn't getting 11 mil a year I believe it's 9. And if I had to guess I think the pats would of paid that as top dollar, the gurusnteed is a joke though.

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I thought it was 9.8M or so, but whatever it was, I wouldn't want Talib for that given his history with injuries. I'd much rather go after a cut Revis with 11 or 12M than paying Talib 10 or 11.

PATS16N0 said:

I thought it was 9.8M or so, but whatever it was, I wouldn't want Talib for that given his history with injuries. I'd much rather go after a cut Revis with 11 or 12M than paying Talib 10 or 11.

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Yup.. or 13 here.

Danger Zone said:

Yup.. or 13 here.

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Sure, 13, because F the Jets and F Denver.
I'm in!

If Talib stays healthy then Denver paid (what I would consider) a bit on the high side yet not way outside all reasonableness. And when healthy they are getting a key part to having a good defense. That's the good news on Talib the player. The bad is if past equals future results, Talib is not a 16 game a year player. I don't think he has played a 16 game season since 2009 (including missing the last 2 seasons' biggest games of the year). Also consider that the 2013 Talib was in a contract year -- this was the year he would be giving every iota and enduring as much pain as possible in order to fatten his next, biggest of his lifetime career, contract. Chances he will play through the same level of pain in 2014 is not great (I don't blame him or any player for that kind of bottom line business mindset -- should anyone blame a player for this??).
When you consider that and consider the question 'who do we part with in 2014 or 2015 or 2016?' due to the Cap being much tighter, it's hard to say BB was wrong for not mathcing Denver's contract. Look, BB knows the value of Talib and he also knows the value of a cap dollar as much as any GM. While I lean toward agreeing with BB for letting him go based solely on my own belief that very high dollars devoted to a single player that is injury prone is a losing proposition, the question of letting Talib go for this amount of money is a tough one to quantify as right or wrong. If the money is used for multiple players that have an impact, that helps make it right (if we have a healthy-very productive TE because of it, I'm leaning more heavily toward it being right). If the money is used for players that underperform, that helps make it wrong. Stay tuned for the answer to the question....

The Patriots will miss him, no one can argue he didn't have a significant and positive impact on the D, and that having him would made us better. But I do not blame Talib one bit for signing with Denver. He wanted to make as much money as possible, why is that wrong? Especially given he is, likelier than normal, a limited shelf life player due to chronic injury, he did what he had to do to gain as much financial success as possible. But he is gone, the Patriots have, so far, always found a way to be successful even after losing player X, and now that he has a fortune in guaranteed money that brings financial security for life, I hope he falls flat on his stupid face game in and game out.

Another year of Value signings of mid level players, Cant wait to see Arrington to get touched.

I think Revis goes back home. They're the one team that can throw the bank at him and turn his head. Don't see NE being a destination at all.

Look carefully at the Broncos and you'll know they just practically gone all out for just this season. Von Miller, Julius Thomas, Demayrius Thomas, Chris Harris ... 4 names they gotta pay next year and they'll be lucky to keep 2 of them. They just went at all out for this year and that's not something I'd really want.

BUT, BB got really played this time. I mean with Amendola/Welker he simply thought Amendola would be as good as him and got him on a decent deal. Now with Talib gone we have no plan B. Verner the plan B got for a great deal to the Bucs. That's the kind of deal BB wants but Talib and Denver played him perfectly.

wow, so where is the pats apologists like Andy and such? What do you guys have to say?

They blow us out and then take our best defender, what can we use as an excuse now, Brady is about to be 36 or 37, wow man, great way to wake up.