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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Depending on how much hardball he wants to play that isn't true.
He can hold out to week 9? Sign the contract. Get his year done here and move on.
Im not gonna do the math but I think he still makes more money in 7 games under that tender minus money lost for weeks missed than he made for the entirety of last season.
If he's willing to bet on him self than he can do this
If he doesn't sign his tender by June, instead of $3.9 million the Pats can drop it down to $660k.
NE has the option to do that. They don't have to. (I have no data on how often teams play hardball by exercising their option to lower the tender).If he doesn't sign his tender by June, instead of $3.9 million the Pats can drop it down to $660k.
The Patriots don't want picks for Butler so he has not leverage on the team.There's still no reason for him to sign it before 21 April. Why cut things off? After that, the only reasons not to sign it are to keep the chances of an extension alive and to prevent a trade to somewhere you don't want to go. He does have the leverage on NE that if NE wants picks for him in this draft NE will need to work with a team he's willing to go to since he can prevent any trade until after the draft if he wants to by simply not signing.
There's still no reason for him to sign it before 21 April. Why cut things off?
BB says you can't discuss trading a player who isn't under contract.Won't stop the idiots who were so convinced that Butler was discussed
BB says you can't discuss trading a player who isn't under contract.
Lombardi says the same.
Payton says they didn't discuss Butler.
Payton says he wouldn't take butler instead of 32 if they had.
People believe 32 was a placeholder and they really tried to include butler.
Now we are to believe that when BB said you can't do it, he didn't really mean it. When Payton says it never happened of course he is lying.
People are going to believe what they want to believe.
That is your speculation. I believe the agent negotiated the trade because that would be allowed. Two means to the same end. One is allowed the other is not and the involved party is in record saying he knows it. You tell me which is more likely.Just so you know, and so I can be crystal clear, I, for one, even though I've been your primary rhetorical opponent in this thread, have never claimed that BB and Payton have actually discussed Butler. I have no idea if they have.
But let's not pretend that the Patriots and Dolphins didn't, you know, actually discuss a trade while Welker was an unsigned RFA, because that actually happened. In fact, the *Patriots* initiated that discussion.
FACILITATED BY AGENTS.And so my issue all along has been squaring Belichick's comments with the reality that these trades - and the discussion of the trades while the players were unsigned RFAs - ACTUALLY happened. In real life. In the NFL. Under this CBA. Including...the Patriots.
Agents are allowed to do so.With ZERO penalty from the NFL. Ever.
I haven't denied anything. I dispute that an article that refers non specifically to the parameters of how a negotiation and transaction occurred is proof of anything.You have taken the position that Belichick's take is correct (which may be right), but that in doing so, you have denied that these trades, and trade discussions, actually happened, when it's a matter of historical record that they have.
But you are assuming you know the circumstances around every deal and are ignoring the fact that it is common for agents to seek trades. They do this with permission for players under contract and do not need permission for players not under contract.So how do we square Belichick's comments with this reality? That's not a snarky question. That's a real question. Denying the reality that these trades have happened many times doesn't help advance the discussion and is a totally ridiculous take.
See above.So how do you square Belichick's comments with the reality that these trades have happened in real life, under this CBA, even including the Patriots, and that the NFL seems quite fine with them, Andy? What's your position? It *cannot* be that these trades haven't actually happened. It simply cannot be.
That is your speculation.
I believe
the agent negotiated the trade because that would be allowed. Two means to the same end. One is allowed the other is not and the involved party is in record saying he knows it. You tell me which is more likely.
FACILITATED BY AGENTS.
Agents are allowed to do so.
I haven't denied anything. I dispute that an article that refers non specifically to the parameters of how a negotiation and transaction occurred is proof of anything.
But you are assuming you know the circumstances around every deal and are ignoring the fact that it is common for agents to seek trades. They do this with permission for players under contract and do not need permission for players not under contract.
I have gone through this before.
Using welker as an example his agent negotiates an offer sheet and welker says he wants it to be one that Miami will not match. He adds a poison pill. He and the patriots do not want bad blood because of the poison pill. The agent asks BB if he would be willing to throw in more than the 2nd to ensure no match by Miami.
Agent goes back to Miami tells them what's up and asks if they will do a trade if a 7th is thrown in. Everyone agrees.
Reports say the patriots negotiated a trade with Miami.
Since the point of the story is not that it be used to determine whether direct negotiations between the teams happen the writer see no need to find out much less include the specific details.
Isn't the answer that happens often and is legal more likely than the one that is illegal and relies on a reporter caring about the minutiae of how it went down?
See above.
I have answered all of this in detail.No, not *my* speculation. As I say below, I actually cited the story of how this unfolded, and it was the Patriots who initiated the conversation with the Dolphins.
And you talk about "speculation"?
A report not a fact, not an inside report on the negotiations. As I said likely glossed over the facts.Actually, I cited the link where the story is told, and the PATRIOTS INITIATED THE CONVERSATION with the Dolphins. Just so you know.
Only point? This is the entire debateSo after reading all this, is it the case that ALL you're saying is that teams can discuss trades with other teams so long as it's THROUGH THE AGENTS, as opposed to Belichick (for example) getting directly on the phone with Payton and hammering out details?
Is that your only point in all this?
Semantics?Because if so, then all we're doing in all this is arguing semantics. Because if BB can talk to Butler's agent and say, "Look, let's try to work something out, and if Butler is good with it, why don't you talk to Payton and see what he wants, then get back to me, and I'll tell you what I think, and you go back and forth until we either settle it or reach an impasse", then how is that REALLY any different than Belichick calling Payton and just talking directly to him? (or, of course, vice-versa, with Payton telling the agent to talk to BB for him)
If it's that by getting the agent involved, it automatically is Butler giving permission for the trade talks, THEN I'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED THIS BY CITING THE PORTION OF THE CBA WHERE IT SAYS THAT AS LONG AS THE PLAYER AND THE NFLPA AGREE, TEAMS MAY NEGOTIATE SUCH TRADES!
That teams cannot negotiate trading a player who is not under contract.[/QUOTE]So what on EARTH are you actually arguing Andy?
If I was the team I would reduce the tender the first moment I could.NE has the option to do that. They don't have to. (I have no data on how often teams play hardball by exercising their option to lower the tender).
I have answered all of this in detail.
A report not a fact, not an inside report on the negotiations. As I said likely glossed over the facts.
Only point? This is the entire debate
Semantics?
If you are a free agent you see no difference between negotiating your own deal and letting the team shop you to whoever they want?
It's a major difference.
I haven't seen that repost if you wish.
That teams cannot negotiate trading a player who is not under contract.
BB says you can't discuss trading a player who isn't under contract.
Lombardi says the same.
Payton says they didn't discuss Butler.
Payton says he wouldn't take butler instead of 32 if they had.
People believe 32 was a placeholder and they really tried to include butler.
Now we are to believe that when BB said you can't do it, he didn't really mean it. When Payton says it never happened of course he is lying.
People are going to believe what they want to believe.
So glad we have this issue resolved and this thread is rocking!
wait...
Here we go again, the two morons writing their Middle School thesis' on Butler again.