Warren: Pats getting away from 3-4.

[silenthuntr7]

Re: What scheme change?

Yeah...now that I think about it, switching to a 4-3 AT PRESENT doesn't make much sense.

They have too many DTs, too few DEs and OLBs (I see three 4-3 OLBs on our entire roster: Guyton, Fletcher, and possibly Ninko), and Bill wouldn't institute a new defense in this shortened offseason. Maybe next year though...especially if Haynesworth works out.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: What scheme change?

I think in 2001 Vrable was predominantly the Sam and Phifer the Wil. The ridiculous 43 they tried playing 2 years ago was more of a 6-1 as both OLBs lined up on the LOS.

I've always snickered at the idea of BB shifting out of a 34 base, but I really think it's a feasibility this year. The personnel is just lining up that way - out with the 34 guys (TBC, Warren), in with the 43 guys (Haynesworth, Moore). OLB is the weakest position on the roster. And most of the existing DL - Wright, Pryor, Brace, Cunningham, Moore - fit better in a 43. There's also a better chance to grab a 43 DE in free agency or trade right now than a 34 OLB.

Vrabel and Phifer didn't switch sides, I'm pretty sure. Both covered a lot of TEs.
I dont see how our players are a better fit for the 43.
The guy we would acquire to be a 43 DE is basically the same guy we would acquire to be a 34 OLB.

 

[WhiZa]

Re: What scheme change?

Talking about scheme change on this board is like throwing pennies into a black hole. We'll have to see it to believe it.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: What scheme change?

Talking about scheme change on this board is like throwing pennies into a black hole. We'll have to see it to believe it.

But the talk comes every year without fail.

 

[crowell33]

Do the New England Patriots' defensive line moves signal a shift? - ESPN Boston

 

[BradyFTW!]

Warren didn't say that the Pats are moving away from a base 3-4. I think people are reading way too much into this. He said that they're moving in a different direction defensively, ie away from Ty Warren. That direction could be younger, could be more pass-oriented, could be towards guys who can pass their conditioning tests. Who knows? Moving away from the 3-4 is one of a number of possible explanations, and until they start practicing in a base 4-3 it's an unlikely one. Preseason starts in a couple of weeks- if they were switching base defenses, that would probably be reflected on the practice field.

 

[BelichickFan]

Warren didn't say that the Pats are moving away from a base 3-4.

"I think it looks like they're trying to get away from the 3-4," Warren said

 

[Sciz]

Can't say I like this. The Pats have no 4-3 LE on the roster, and not good 4-3 LB depth.

 

[strngplyr]

Can't say I like this. The Pats have no 4-3 LE on the roster, and not good 4-3 LB depth.

Somewhere around 10-14m in capspace that needs to be used, more with Mankins locked up.

Add all the speculative articles saying "New England isn't done yet, expect another big move" etc., etc.

 

[Sciz]

Somewhere around 10-14m in capspace that needs to be used, more with Mankins locked up.

Add all the speculative articles saying "New England isn't done yet, expect another big move" etc., etc.

There are plenty of backup 4-3 OLBs out there, but the best fit at DE seems to be Umenyiora, and that'd require a trade, possibly a new contract, and putting up with his inconsistencies vs the run.

 

[BelichickFan]

Just the second day of camp but this was an alignment they had today :

When the action turned to team action the defense lined up in an interesting four-man front that included Vince Wilfork and Kyle Love lined up over the guards with Jermaine Cunningham and Eric Moore in three-point stances at end. The linebackers had Brandon Spikes in the middle with Rob Ninkovich and Jerod Mayo on the outside. The secondary included Brandon Meriweather and Patrick Chung at safety with Leigh Bodden and Devin McCourty at cornerback.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog |

 

[strngplyr]

Just the second day of camp but this was an alignment they had today :

When the action turned to team action the defense lined up in an interesting four-man front that included Vince Wilfork and Kyle Love lined up over the guards with Jermaine Cunningham and Eric Moore in three-point stances at end. The linebackers had Brandon Spikes in the middle with Rob Ninkovich and Jerod Mayo on the outside. The secondary included Brandon Meriweather and Patrick Chung at safety with Leigh Bodden and Devin McCourty at cornerback.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog |

I think I'd rather put Spikes on the outside if possible, Mayo is so good at what he does, I almost don't want to risk change. Then again I think a lot of us thought the same about VW moving to end last season for some games.

Though on PUP and not participating in the practice, Aaron Hernandez was on the field wearing No. 81 Patriots pants. Curiously, undrafted rookie free agent receiver Jeremy Ross was still wearing the No. 81 jersey that he’s worn through the first two days of camp.

We know who wears the pants at least...

 

[Sciz]

I think I'd rather put Spikes on the outside if possible, Mayo is so good at what he does, I almost don't want to risk change. Then again I think a lot of us thought the same about VW moving to end last season for some games.

I think they'd rather have Spikes in the middle so he can do what he's good at, stuffing the inside runs. It's easier to hide lack of speed in the middle.

 

[Fencer]

"I think it looks like they're trying to get away from the 3-4," Warren said of the base alignment that has been a Patriots staple since early in coach Bill Belichick's Patriots tenure.



"When I heard about the different defensive deals they're going to be doing, I didn't see me in that big picture of things, or at least not a huge role in that deal.

OK, that's a lot clearer than the Tom Curran quotes from Warren. It says he looked at the playbook and saw schemes that aren't going to feature his kind of player.

However, he could be exaggerating so as to downplay any more personal reason he was let go.

 

[OhExaulted1]

The Pats are so predictable. Either they they run a 3-4, 4-3 , 2-5, 5-2, 0-7, 1-6 or just call "Yahtzee". Obviously every fan on this site knows the play call on defense for every play 3 or 4 weeks in advance. I'm so happy we're surrounded by all these MIT Robotic Engineers.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I'd love to see us go to a one-gapping type of 4-3 or 3-4 to really play to the strengths of Haynesworth and watch him blow plays up in the backfield.

Going to a 4-3 would also make drafting a pass rushing DE easier, because you don't have to worry about the transition to the NFL (can he set the edge, can he drop into coverage, etc.)

But I just don't see it at this point. Shortened offseason with the lockout so there were no OTA's to start installing this months ago. No two a days anymore.
We've got guys like Spikes, Brace, Ninkovich who all seem more like 3-4 types of players than 4-3 types.

It's just hard to see Bill scraping everything and installing something new with the shortened offseason. I thought the reason Bill went after Haynesworth was because the nickel has basically become the base defense in the NFL, so he'd fit in perfectly as an interior rusher who could be kicked out to 3-4 DE if need be in the base defense.

I was surprised by the move, but I think it's more about his salary and production than a new scheme/system. I think if you look at his salary combined with the way he rubbed the team the wrong way last year by getting his degree and then getting hurt and needing surgery, as well coming into camp this year and hurting his hamstring and failing the conditioning test, Bill just said enough is enough.

Two years in a row you come into camp not in shape/ready to go? Football is obviously not as important to him as it once was and there's no need to pay him a hefty salary if he's not 100% dedicated.

It's a bit disappointing though because a Warren Wilfork Haynesworth line in the base defense looked pretty formidable.

 

[Metaphors]

Somewhere around 10-14m in capspace that needs to be used, more with Mankins locked up.

Add all the speculative articles saying "New England isn't done yet, expect another big move" etc., etc.

I don't think they need to change players to play a traditional 4-3. Most of the DL has experience over guards and tackles. The OLBs are all converted DEs. Mayo and Spikes have a MLB background. Guyton and Mayo have the speed to play OLB.

The 3-4 is a better run defense than a pass defense. The Pats have shown variable fronts for years. As more teams become pass-first, it is natural that you would see more even fronts. The Pats do have a number of run-heavy teams on the schedule this year, so I doubt we've seen the last of the 3-4. Until we see the Pats acquire some traditional 4-3 OLBs, methinks this is much ado about nothing.

 

[DaBruinz]

Do the New England Patriots' defensive line moves signal a shift? - ESPN Boston

Why did this have to have a new thread? It's the same BS that was reported earlier by Tom Curran.. A merge is in orger.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just a couple of quick things.

1.) I do not like the idea of going 4-3, and I don't think it suits the talent.

2.) I believe this was a discussion on the board last year.

3.) I believe the Patriots began camp using 4-3 last year.

4.) I still have no idea what the hell Belichick was thinking when he cut Warren

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Just a couple of quick things.

1.) I do not like the idea of going 4-3, and I don't think it suits the talent.

2.) I believe this was a discussion on the board last year.

3.) I believe the Patriots began camp using 4-3 last year.

4.) I still have no idea what the hell Belichick was thinking when he cut Warren

I think in 2009 the Pats were experimenting heavily with the 4-3 in the preseason and even used it for a few games early in the season but then switched back to the 3-4 full time. There was a lot of talk of the 4-3 being better for their personnel during the pre-season because Mayo would be given an ability to freelance/roam and blitz more, Seymour was talented and versatile enough to play in any scheme, and they acquired Burgess who was a 4-3 DE his whole career.

ProFootballWeekly - Patriots Add 4-3 Elements To Defense

They also had lost some key guys in their 3-4 like Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, etc. and many thought that it might be beneficial to go to a 4-3 with a seemingly more athletic/faster LB corps in Mayo, Guyton, and Adalius. In training camp, they had Seymour who could slide inside like he has with the Raiders, Warren who could play LE or slide inside if needed, Jarvis Green who was probably a better 4-3 DE at that point than 3-4 DE, Mike Wright who was a good interior rusher. Banta-Cain, Burgess, Adalius could all play DE in the 4-3.

I remember seeing a lot of people propose something like this for the base 4-3 defense:

Warren - Wilfork - Seymour - Burgess

........Adalius - Mayo - Guyton


And last year there was a lot of talk of "where is the pass rush going to come from?" Mike Reiss reported early in training camp and/or OTA's that it looked like the Pats were using different fronts than usual (more of a one-gap/penetrating type of style). He said that the defense was not "the same old two gapping D" from years past. Felger also said in a mailbag that his Patriots "sources" were telling him the pass rush would come from a more aggressive scheme, but he'd have to see it to believe it first. This led to a lot of speculation and talk about defensive philosophies. There was actually a pretty lengthy thread on it:

PatsFans - Felger: Pats Moving To A More "Aggressive" Scheme?