This is how innocent Schmessy played "Bait the Christian"

[3 to be 4]

From Schmessy:

State motto: "Kansas, because the Taliban are too liberal".

BTW, for anyone who wants to know what Kansas' most famous current cultural export is, click here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...d+phelps&hl=en


sick fellow this Schmessy. Yes, this is how would paint all people from Kansas, the KC Metropolitan area, and I suppose Missouri too. And not to mention how he would paint all Christians as well.

Christian hater that he is.

 

[shmessy]

From Schmessy:

State motto: "Kansas, because the Taliban are too liberal".

BTW, for anyone who wants to know what Kansas' most famous current cultural export is, click here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...d+phelps&hl=en


sick fellow this Schmessy. Yes, this is how would paint all people from Kansas, the KC Metropolitan area, and I suppose Missouri too. And not to mention how he would paint all Christians as well.

Christian hater that he is.

You're coming undone.

 

[Patters]

3 to be 4, from your other posts, I would bet that you have little admiration or respect for "Christians" like Fred Phelps. Today, the politically powerful Christians are often intolerant, avaricious warhawks. They deserve to be criticized for both their brand of Christianity and their political views. Meanwhile, the more progressive Christians are not speaking up with equal force, and have allowed Christianity to be defined as caring less about compassion that about fighting equal rights, opposing welfare programs, embracing tax cuts for the very wealthy, and trying to impose their brand of Christianity on government. I think before calling someone a Christian hater, you should look in the mirror and ask if people with your values are doing enough to present the side of Christianity espoused by the many great nonviolent and compassionate Christian leaders, like Martin Luther King. Shmessy is not a Christian hater, but, like me, I suspect does not like the right-wing Christians who have awful values.

 

[3 to be 4]

3 to be 4, from your other posts, I would bet that you have little admiration or respect for "Christians" like Fred Phelps. Today, the politically powerful Christians are often intolerant, avaricious warhawks. They deserve to be criticized for both their brand of Christianity and their political views. Meanwhile, the more progressive Christians are not speaking up with equal force, and have allowed Christianity to be defined as caring less about compassion that about fighting equal rights, opposing welfare programs, embracing tax cuts for the very wealthy, and trying to impose their brand of Christianity on government. I think before calling someone a Christian hater, you should look in the mirror and ask if people with your values are doing enough to present the side of Christianity espoused by the many great nonviolent and compassionate Christian leaders, like Martin Luther King. Shmessy is not a Christian hater, but, like me, I suspect does not like the right-wing Christians who have awful values.

And if that was his motives for posting that then I would agree wholeheartedly. Fred Phelps is a joke, except that he isnt funny. But Schmessy didnt post that out of having some sudden need to fight Fred Phelps. He posted that to tell us all that Fred Phelps represents my state. He even said as much in introducing the link.

It was a unfair and ignorant swipe at Kansas, and an attempt to paint the Christian people of Kansas with Fred Phelps so as to paint me in that way to somehow win a debate with me.

a pretty lowlife act and very revealing of his own character.

But I forgive him. Because God forgives me. Peace be with you all.

 

[shmessy]

And if that was his motives for posting that then I would agree wholeheartedly. Fred Phelps is a joke, except that he isnt funny. But Schmessy didnt post that out of having some sudden need to fight Fred Phelps. He posted that to tell us all that Fred Phelps represents my state. He even said as much in introducing the link.

It was a unfair and ignorant swipe at Kansas, and an attempt to paint the Christian people of Kansas with Fred Phelps so as to paint me in that way to somehow win a debate with me.

a pretty lowlife act and very revealing of his own character.

But I forgive him. Because God forgives me. Peace be with you all.

Pretty disingenuous of you to completely leave out that Fred Phelps was only PART of my post.

You excised the part about the hundreds of local boards of education throughout Kansas and their campaign against science. THAT is broad based throughout the state.

At no time have I stated that ALL Kansans want to reverse the Rennaissance that took Europe out of the Middle Ages, but no other state in the Union has experienced such an attack on science and reason.

So before you write "Boston is a beautiful place to visit, but id never live there again. Im wont be surprised any day now to hear the news flash about thousands of people being swept away when the Big Dig collapses." just remember - - "People who live in glass farmhouses shouldn't throw cow patties."

 

[3 to be 4]

disingenuous

you, me, and PFIV have used that word so much i think we should just start a "disingenuous" thread.

 

[shmessy]

disingenuous

you, me, and PFIV have used that word so much i think we should just start a "disingenuous" thread.

Nice try at sidestepping the issue.

3, you can quote all the scripture you want by heart. Very impressive.

You define YOURSELF however in their OWN words and deeds. And you have NOT painted a very pretty self portrait.

 

[dalero]

This used to be the fun forum. Now it reeks almost as bad as the political forum.

 

[3 to be 4]

Nice try at sidestepping the issue.

3, you can quote all the scripture you want by heart. Very impressive.

You define YOURSELF however in their OWN words and deeds. And you have NOT painted a very pretty self portrait.

heres the difference in your priorities and mine. You care about and worship yourself most of all, so you are most concerned with how "good" you are in your own eyes and how others see you. Im more concerned with how where I stand with God than how im "defined" by the world. or by you.

I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds. The trouble is, as scripture is very clear about, both Old and New, both Hebrew and Christian, is that if you are going to live by your works and your deeds, it'll never be enough unless you are perfect. And we know thats not possible.

So you could prove be the greatest guy in the world, and you could do all you could to prove that im "not a very pretty self portrait". Yet, the bottom line is, It doesnt matter in Gods eyes because you have rejected His Son. Where you are judged by the Law, I am freed from the bondage of sin and I am forgiven for my trespasses.

And this is even if your most ridiculous assumptions of Schmessy:Good, 3 to be 4: Bad ,are assumed to be true. Which they certainly are not.

so really, im not going to lose much sleep over your opinion of me. Why should your spiritual opinion mean a thing to me. Even if I wasnt a believer in Christ, I would never,as a Jew, respect what you had to say as a Jew because neither you or your buddy,PFIV, have enough love or reverance of God to ever mention Him or honor him. You are pretty much Godless Jews, and as such, your opinions of Religious, Scriptural, and Spiritual matters are worthless to me.

Enjoy the awards and trophies that im sure adorn your wall for all your good works and deeds. And comfort yourself thinking that im so not worthy of you.

If God isnt at the forefront, which from everything ive heard from you He isnt, then you better get all that you can from this life.

I dont wish this for you. I wish the best for you. Thats why I would suggest that if you think its silly to put so much stock into God, and that its vital to keep your relationship with him as covered up as possible, that you should take a look at the Proverbs and Psalms especially.

I wouldnt expect you or PFIV to accept Christ at this point. Obviously. But at the very least, I would encourage you both to at least accept the idea of a true relationship with God. One that wouldnt make you bristle at the idea of proudly talking of your love for Him to others. That would, at least, make you the kind of Jews whose opinion would mean anything to a believer in ************.

Honor God and talk of Him proudly. Because He deserves it.

 

[shmessy]

3tobe4 wrote: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds. The trouble is, as scripture is very clear about, both Old and New, both Hebrew and Christian, is that if you are going to live by your works and your deeds, it'll never be enough unless you are perfect. And we know thats not possible.

So you could prove be the greatest guy in the world, and you could do all you could to prove that im "not a very pretty self portrait". Yet, the bottom line is, It doesnt matter in Gods eyes because you have rejected His Son. Where you are judged by the Law, I am freed from the bondage of sin and I am forgiven for my trespasses. "
_______________________________-

"I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds."

I'm floored that you actually wrote that. I am impressed with your moment of clarity and true honesty there.

I'm beginning to understand that the meaning of the name "3tobe4" may not be tied to the Patriots' championship hopes. Ironically it pertains to the number of the 10 Commandments you evidently feel are important (perhaps, you're thinking of working on a 4th).

That was a direct quote, above, from your previous post: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds." Do you REALLY believe that merely quoting scripture and having faith gives you the automatic ticket to heaven despite how you interact with the creatures that God made in his own image?

Question to you: Don't you think all 10 Commandments should be followed? Why just the first 3? Those of us who are "hung up on our works and deeds" are remembering the other 7 Commandments count also.

You continue to declare that God is not in PFiV's and my lives. At no point did either of us say that. In fact, I have written many times that God IS very much in my life. So are human beings.

Since human kind is created in God's image, one's works and deeds in this life and ARE important. You wrote: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds." The Lord knows I'm not perfect. But I work everyday for God AND my fellow man. One without the other is not the complete picture. Memorizing scripture and having a relationship with God at the exclusion of humans is not the whole enchilada in my opinion. Perhaps it is in yours (along with those who memorize Torah but cheat their fellow man, or memorize the Quran but strap explosives to teenage boys).

Scripture is the road map. But if you don't actually drive the car, you can't get there from here.

I pity you. You are trying to take the shortcut, scribble the Cliff's notes, trying to skirt by. It ain't that easy. You can't just follow the first 3 Commandments and then say you have fulfilled God's wishes. Deeds and works with one's fellow man in this lifetime are just as important. Having faith in God while not taking responsibility for your own actions towards what he created IN HIS OWN IMAGE is a desecration of God.

You have some work to do.

 

[3 to be 4]

3tobe4 wrote: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds. The trouble is, as scripture is very clear about, both Old and New, both Hebrew and Christian, is that if you are going to live by your works and your deeds, it'll never be enough unless you are perfect. And we know thats not possible.

So you could prove be the greatest guy in the world, and you could do all you could to prove that im "not a very pretty self portrait". Yet, the bottom line is, It doesnt matter in Gods eyes because you have rejected His Son. Where you are judged by the Law, I am freed from the bondage of sin and I am forgiven for my trespasses. "
_______________________________-

"I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds."

I'm floored that you actually wrote that. I am impressed with your moment of clarity and true honesty there.

I'm beginning to understand that the meaning of the name "3tobe4" may not be tied to the Patriots' championship hopes. Ironically it pertains to the number of the 10 Commandments you evidently feel are important (perhaps, you're thinking of working on a 4th).

That was a direct quote, above, from your previous post: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds." Do you REALLY believe that merely quoting scripture and having faith gives you the automatic ticket to heaven despite how you interact with the creatures that God made in his own image?

Question to you: Don't you think all 10 Commandments should be followed? Why just the first 3? Those of us who are "hung up on our works and deeds" are remembering the other 7 Commandments count also.

You continue to declare that God is not in PFiV's and my lives. At no point did either of us say that. In fact, I have written many times that God IS very much in my life. So are human beings.

Since human kind is created in God's image, one's works and deeds in this life and ARE important. You wrote: "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds." The Lord knows I'm not perfect. But I work everyday for God AND my fellow man. One without the other is not the complete picture. Memorizing scripture and having a relationship with God at the exclusion of humans is not the whole enchilada in my opinion. Perhaps it is in yours (along with those who memorize Torah but cheat their fellow man, or memorize the Quran but strap explosives to teenage boys).

Scripture is the road map. But if you don't actually drive the car, you can't get there from here.

I pity you. You are trying to take the shortcut, scribble the Cliff's notes, trying to skirt by. It ain't that easy. You can't just follow the first 3 Commandments and then say you have fulfilled God's wishes. Deeds and works with one's fellow man in this lifetime are just as important. Having faith in God while not taking responsibility for your own actions towards what he created IN HIS OWN IMAGE is a desecration of God.

You have some work to do.

You just took a ridiculous giant leap.

I said : "I have justification by Faith, while you are hung up on your works and your deeds."

I didnt say : I have justification by Faith, so I have absolutely no need to do any good works or deeds.

try reading and not adding to what people have said. if i had said the second one, your point would have made some sense. But i didnt say it, so you just wasted a lot your own time.

the second part of my quote meant, not that works and deeds arent important, but that YOU feel its the be all and end all to faith and salvation.

its not.

I am glad that God is very much a part of your life. You made a big stink earlier of saying it was personal and you werent going to discuss it.

i have no idea where you get this that i dont think the last 7 commanments are important, although its probably linked to you thinking I said works and good deeds mean nothing to me. So its another wasted point.

I posed a first commandment question weeks ago that you and PFIV never answered, about placing God first in your life. So i thought it interesting you were bringing the commandments up now.

in any case, i hope i cleared up for you what i actually said in that quote.

 

[shmessy]

You just took a ridiculous giant leap.......


........I am glad that God is very much a part of your life. You made a big stink earlier of saying it was personal and you werent going to discuss it.

I never wrote that God isn't a huge part of my life. You projected that, however, when I wrote that my relationship with God is PERSONAL.

So who took the "ridiculous giant leap"?

Something that is personal does not mean it does not exist. Not everyone is a George W. Bush about God. Some look at God more like his father, George H.W.. That doesn't mean that the old man is Godless. And it doesn't mean his son who trumpets his belief in God is any closer to God than his quieter father.

As I mentioned, scripture can be a roadmap. But scripture without acts and deeds is like memorizing the roadmap without actually taking the trip. Your posts rely almost entirely on scripture and belief. You have continually writtten that you do bad things but your faith in God gets you God's forgiveness. I know that memorizing the roadmap without actually taking the trip would not get me to my destination......but that's me. Perhaps you can do it.

 

[shmessy]

BTW, the other "Giant Leap" you have made is that I somehow live in New England.

Sometimes the truth lies underneath and not on one's sleeve.

 

[3 to be 4]

I never wrote that God isn't a huge part of my life. You projected that, however, when I wrote that my relationship with God is PERSONAL.

So who took the "ridiculous giant leap"?

Something that is personal does not mean it does not exist. Not everyone is a George W. Bush about God. Some look at God more like his father, George H.W.. That doesn't mean that the old man is Godless. And it doesn't mean his son who trumpets his belief in God is any closer to God than his quieter father.

As I mentioned, scripture can be a roadmap. But scripture without acts and deeds is like memorizing the roadmap without actually taking the trip. Your posts rely almost entirely on scripture and belief. You have continually writtten that you do bad things but your faith in God gets you God's forgiveness. I know that memorizing the roadmap without actually taking the trip would not get me to my destination......but that's me. Perhaps you can do it.

"You have continually writtten that you do bad things "

talk about misleading.... im not David Berkowitz. If you mean, that i make it clear that I am a flawed person, as EVERYONE is, than you are correct. the difference is I can admit that.

 

[shmessy]

"You have continually writtten that you do bad things "

talk about misleading.... im not David Berkowitz. If you mean, that i make it clear that I am a flawed person, as EVERYONE is, than you are correct. the difference is I can admit that.

David Berkowitz? Exaggerating again?

I do bad things too.

1) And I try seek forgiveness NOT exclusively with God, but ALSO with the person I have wronged.

2) And I do not hold myself out to others as someone who "knows the way".

 

[3 to be 4]

David Berkowitz? Exaggerating again?

I do bad things too.

1) And I try seek forgiveness NOT exclusively with God, but ALSO with the person I have wronged.

2) And I do not hold myself out to others as someone who "knows the way".

and how do you know that I dont seek forgiveness from others? based on a website situation?

whats wrong with knowing. its called belief. if you dont know it to be true, its only an opinion. I dont just know it from scripture, i know it on a personal level,from my own experience. And not ashamed to speak of it.

if you dont agree, ignore me and move on.