The Krafts are relentless in their assault on Belichick's coaching.

[TheRainMaker]

It's really the end of it, isn't it.

Knoll and Bradshaw
Walsh and Montana
Landry and Staubach
Belichick and Brady
Johnson and Aikman
Reid and Mahomes

Amazing how smart these guys are when they have a great QB.

I was too young or wasn’t even born for Knoll, Walsh and Landry, but Walsh had a worse record than Bill until Montana turned the corner. I haven’t seen any criticism for him.

I thought Johnson did a good job in Miami making the playoffs 3 straight years with mediocre offenses and they were an absolute pest to NE in the late 90’s. But Marino was shot and they couldn’t land any firepower on offense.

Posters seem to have revisionist history with Reid. He was 5-11 his first year, but magically reversed his record when McNabb took over in 2000. He burned out in Philly after McNabb and had the reputation of a horrible game manager. He was an afterthought and his teams weren’t a known threat in KC until he hit on Mahomes. Now he’s a genius.

It’s not an insult saying Bill had to rely on a QB. Every coach does.

 

[Steve102]

I was too young or wasn’t even born for Knoll, Walsh and Landry, but Walsh had a worse record than Bill until Montana turned the corner. I haven’t seen any criticism for him.

I thought Johnson did a good job in Miami making the playoffs 3 straight years with mediocre offense and they were an absolute pest to NE in the late 90’s. But Marino was shot and they couldn’t land any firepower on offense.

Posters seem to have revisionist history with Reid. He was 5-11 his first year, but magically reversed his record when McNabb took over in 2000. He burned out in Philly after McNabb and had the reputation of a horrible game manager. He was an afterthought and his teams weren’t a known threat in KC until he hit on Mahomes. Now he’s a genius.

It’s not an insult saying Bill had to rely on a QB. Every coach does.

Somewhere there's a failed NFL coach who was the greatest coach that no one has heard of because he never had a good QB.

Walsh was innovative. He's Bill's equal, offense vs defense. But players play, and Bill certainly had some good ones on D to make him look good, as did Walsh on O.

 

[signbabybrady]

I was too young or wasn’t even born for Knoll, Walsh and Landry, but Walsh had a worse record than Bill until Montana turned the corner. I haven’t seen any criticism for him.

I thought Johnson did a good job in Miami making the playoffs 3 straight years with mediocre offenses and they were an absolute pest to NE in the late 90’s. But Marino was shot and they couldn’t land any firepower on offense.

Posters seem to have revisionist history with Reid. He was 5-11 his first year, but magically reversed his record when McNabb took over in 2000. He burned out in Philly after McNabb and had the reputation of a horrible game manager. He was an afterthought and his teams weren’t a known threat in KC until he hit on Mahomes. Now he’s a genius.

It’s not an insult saying Bill had to rely on a QB. Every coach does.

Made up talk radio debate that has taken on a life of its own with the Brady leaving and the results of the last few seasons. But until 2019 I don't think I ever heard anyone holding a QB vs their HC debate.

 

[XLIX]

Made up talk radio debate that has taken on a life of its own with the Brady leaving and the results of the last few seasons. But until 2019 I don't think I ever heard anyone holding a QB vs their HC debate.

whuh whuh huhhhh???? You never heard a Brady vs. Bill debate until 2019...???

What was it like living in the caves of Afghanistan?

 

[Free_Pacman]

You know, when someone says "Bill developed Brady" they sure are coming fairly close to the above....

Brady was a decent college quarterback who was barely drafted; to say, Belichick and the Patriots coaching staff didn’t play a role in his development is absurd.

 

[signbabybrady]

whuh whuh huhhhh???? You never heard a Brady vs. Bill debate until 2019...???

What was it like living in the caves of Afghanistan?

Maybe I got the year wrong when BB v Brady started but I'm saying I never heard a Walsh Vs Montana debate or Johnson vs Aikman or anyone else.

It's stupid talk radio crap and it only has legs because people are butt hurt over Brady going to Tampa.

 

[h0c2000]

Maybe I got the year wrong when BB v Brady started but I'm saying I never heard a Walsh Vs Montana debate or Johnson vs Aikman or anyone else.

It's stupid talk radio crap and it only has legs because people are butt hurt over Brady going to Tampa.

Trust me, there were those debates on Usenet in the early 90s.

Around the same time, the who was better debates for the Pats wasn't a thing. The thing at that time was who sucked worse, the Pats or the Jets. Those were fun times.

 

[sb1]

Trust me, there were those debates on Usenet in the early 90s.

Around the same time, the who was better debates for the Pats wasn't a thing. The thing at that time was who sucked worse, the Pats or the Jets. Those were fun times.

The Jets newsgroup was a triggered place back in the day when it looked like Kraft was getting in the way of Tuna going there.

 

[venecol]

How is it that Robert loves to tell you how involved he was in every decision that went well and every bonehead one that went wrong was purely Bill and it's "don't look at me, that was Bill".

You were either heavily involved in all decisions including allowing him to hire Matt Patricia as OC and move on from Brady or you weren't involved at all apart from signing the checks and every decision was Bills, you can't have it both ways.

I don't see it that way. Of course owners are involved to some degree. Things get run by them because at the end of the day, they cut the checks. There may be some back and forth, such as asking or questioning a decision. Ultimately, it comes down to how much the owner forces his view on the HC.

For example, it's possible RK questioned the Patricia hire but after listening to BB explanations, was satisfied. We know that's what happened w/ Bledsoe by RK's own admission. He backed off and let Bill decide. He even admitted it was the right decision.

When Bill comes back and tells RK he wants to run it back with Patricia. Kraft puts his foot down and says hell no, you're finding a qualified OC, but it's up to you who's hired. Again, I see nothing wrong with it, based on what happened.

On Spygate, there's zero reason for BB to consult w/ RK because it wasn't a personnel matter. BB deserves 100% of the blame on that. Why would RK take any blame for that when he was clueless? I think that at the end of the day, after the 3rd SB when RK gave BB the full authority to run things, he pretty much didn't interfere. That's why it's comical that the haters want to blame Kraft for **** when the bottom fell off.

There seems to be an exception when it came to players that had questionable moral issues (Hernandez, AB). RK admitted that's the only time he would force an issue.

 

[venecol]

I was too young or wasn’t even born for Knoll, Walsh and Landry, but Walsh had a worse record than Bill until Montana turned the corner. I haven’t seen any criticism for him.

I thought Johnson did a good job in Miami making the playoffs 3 straight years with mediocre offenses and they were an absolute pest to NE in the late 90’s. But Marino was shot and they couldn’t land any firepower on offense.

Posters seem to have revisionist history with Reid. He was 5-11 his first year, but magically reversed his record when McNabb took over in 2000. He burned out in Philly after McNabb and had the reputation of a horrible game manager. He was an afterthought and his teams weren’t a known threat in KC until he hit on Mahomes. Now he’s a genius.

It’s not an insult saying Bill had to rely on a QB. Every coach does.

Reid's record w/o Mahomes is 1000x better than Bill's w/o Brady. There's no comparison.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Made up talk radio debate that has taken on a life of its own with the Brady leaving and the results of the last few seasons. But until 2019 I don't think I ever heard anyone holding a QB vs their HC debate.

I'd say the debates started when Kellerman was on Bill's side and made the "cliff" comment. It heated up after the Eagles Super Bowl loss.

Troy Aikman mentioned the team started going south after Johnson left. Swift didn't want to make waves, while Johnson would get the players in line. I really liked Jimmy Johnson as a coach, but the team was aging and had horrible drafts which was the major reason of their downfall. Teams like the 1996 Packers (although they lost to the Cowboys again that season), 1998 Vikings and 1999 Rams were passing them up. Even had Johnson stayed, they would've needed stellar drafts and taking Randy Moss which was were he thought he was going to make one more run.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Reid's record w/o Mahomes is 1000x better than Bill's w/o Brady. There's no comparison.

I'm not debating that as that at is indisputable. Even if you take McNabb out, it's still probably better. But he was still pretty irrelevant when he didn't have Pro Bowl level QB play. Alex Smith was a game manager and there teams were never a threat to the Brady/Bill teams. Mahomes gave them the scare in 2018 and that started Reid's resurgence.

Give both Coaches equal teams and I'm still taking Bill in big game decision making/x' and o's.

 

[venecol]

Brady was a decent college quarterback who was barely drafted; to say, Belichick and the Patriots coaching staff didn’t play a role in his development is absurd.

That's not the argument at all. Every college player gets developed when they enter the NFL by the "team." Strength & conditioning, diets, drills, etc. The Team Bill cultists are giving Bill 100% of the credit for Brady's development into the GOAT. That's what's absurd. Bill is a defensive coach. Bill learned more about what Brady saw in the field against defenses than anything Brady learned from Bill about QBing. That's a fact.

 

[Koma]

Trust me, there were those debates on Usenet in the early 90s.

Around the same time, the who was better debates for the Pats wasn't a thing. The thing at that time was who sucked worse, the Pats or the Jets. Those were fun times.

Just think, in the early 90s, Jets fans could argue “Hey, we went to a SB and won while the Patriots went to the SB and got blown out.” Fast forward 30 years and the Patriots are tied with the most SB championships ever while the Jets don’t even have another appearance, let alone another title.

 

[Steve102]

That's not the argument at all. Every college player gets developed when they enter the NFL by the "team." Strength & conditioning, diets, drills, etc. The Team Bill cultists are giving Bill 100% of the credit for Brady's development into the GOAT. That's what's absurd. Bill is a defensive coach. Bill learned more about what Brady saw in the field against defenses than anything Brady learned from Bill about QBing. That's a fact.

No one is doing that. They are simply not allowing you to say that he was developed in a vacuum.

I seriously don't know why I bother. You know something, you're right. Brady's a lab experiment. No, better yet, God created Brady (yeah, he kinda did). Wait, Brady created football. Then Brady said, ‘Let there be a gridiron in the midst of the grasses, and let it divide the endzone from the sidelines.’ Thus Brady made the gridiron, and divided the grasses which were under the domes of the stadiums from the synthetic turf fields which were inferior to play on; and it was so. And Brady called the field Foxboro. Deemed that it was good. And on the 7th day, Brady rested, for the game was Monday night.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not debating that as that at is indisputable. Even if you take McNabb out, it's still probably better. But he was still pretty irrelevant when he didn't have Pro Bowl level QB play. Alex Smith was a game manager and there teams were never a threat to the Brady/Bill teams. Mahomes gave them the scare in 2018 and that started Reid's resurgence.

Give both Coaches equal teams and I'm still taking Bill in big game decision making/x' and o's.

Mahomes and Brady's impact on Reid/Belichick is undeniable. But what's also undeniable is the game decisions that give them the upper hand on opposing coaches. They outcoach other coaches. This doesn't mean the greater credit doesn't go to the players. Last 2 years I've marveled at Reid's playcalling. It's really that simple. He doesn't need to be exotic. He just knows how to throw you off balance. He's a better coach than Shanahan.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'd say the debates started when Kellerman was on Bill's side and made the "cliff" comment. It heated up after the Eagles Super Bowl loss.

Troy Aikman mentioned the team started going south after Johnson left. Swift didn't want to make waves, while Johnson would get the players in line. I really liked Jimmy Johnson as a coach, but the team was aging and had horrible drafts which was the major reason of their downfall. Teams like the 1996 Packers (although they lost to the Cowboys again that season), 1998 Vikings and 1999 Rams were passing them up. Even had Johnson stayed, they would've needed stellar drafts and taking Randy Moss which was were he thought he was going to make one more run.

Switzer won a title with Johnson's team and no one acts the same about Johnson as BB

 

[venecol]

No one is doing that. They are simply not allowing you to say that he was developed in a vacuum.

I seriously don't know why I bother. You know something, you're right. Brady's a lab experiment. No, better yet, God created Brady (yeah, he kinda did). Wait, Brady created football. Then Brady said, ‘Let there be a gridiron in the midst of the grasses, and let it divide the endzone from the sidelines.’ Thus Brady made the gridiron, and divided the grasses which were under the domes of the stadiums from the synthetic turf fields which were inferior to play on; and it was so. And Brady called the field Foxboro. Deemed that it was good. And on the 7th day, Brady rested, for the game was Monday night.

Some of these posters are absolutely claiming Bill 100% developed Brady. The rest is nonsense.

 

[venecol]

Mahomes and Brady's impact on Reid/Belichick is undeniable. But what's also undeniable is the game decisions that give them the upper hand on opposing coaches. They outcoach other coaches. This doesn't mean the greater credit doesn't go to the players. Last 2 years I've marveled at Reid's playcalling. It's really that simple. He doesn't need to be exotic. He just knows how to throw you off balance. He's a better coach than Shanahan.

Yet, I wonder why Bill was outcoached the last 4 seasons. What could've happened 4 years ago to make his coaching fall off so dramatically? Could it be there wasn't a QB there to have 4QC or GWDs? Hmmm

 

[signbabybrady]

Some of these posters are absolutely claiming Bill 100% developed Brady. The rest is nonsense.

In your mind maybe but no one is claiming that. Like Steve said just can't let you act like it happened in a vacuum.