The 2014 Mock draft Thread.

[manxman2601]

I agree with you to a large extent. Potentially, as you note.

I think that the Pats need to sort out Wilfork's situation, and if he's not likely to be able to come back to an adequate level in 2014 they need to find a 0/1 tech capable of being a run stuff, pushing the pocket, and occasionally penetrating and making plays. I like Sealver Siliga and want him to be a long term part of the plan, but I'm not comfortable banking on him as a long term starter at this point. The guy in FA who I think fits the best is Linval Joseph. The only guy in the draft who clearly fits is Louis Nix. There are a number of day 3 guys with the potential to do some of that - Justin Ellis, Zach Kerr, DeAndre Coleman, Beau Allen. I'm not sure that the falloff from Nix to those guys is enough to warrant using a 1st round pick on Nix, even if he is available.

The 3-tech position is one that I see being more of opportunity than immediate need. We have Kelly, Armstead and Jones under contract, but 2 of those guys are coming off of IR, and Kelly is 33. My guess is we'll be ok for 2014 with those 3 guys, but unless Armstead truly materializes there is plenty of room for a long term solution. If Ra'Shede Hageman or Timmy Jernigan (or possibly Aaron Donald, depending on your perspective) is available, that is a great opportunity to address a key position for the long term. And if that scenario plays out, I hope the Pats will give it serious consideration vis-a-vis the other options on the board at that time.

I personally don't believe in reaching to fill a need. If a player worthy of 29 is on the board, regardless of position, I hope he gets serious consideration. Need factors in secondarily. If the player isn't worthy of a pick at that level, I hope the Pats wouldn't reach because of a need. And need doesn't always have to be immediate - the Pats felt worthy of taking Jamie Collins as their first player selected last year, despite what was perceived as larger needs. The same was true with Devin McCourty in 2010 and Nate Solder in 2011.

A draft pick is nothing but "potentially".

I will take issue with your next to last sentence when you talk about taking Collins "despite what was perceived as larger needs". Perceived by whom? For all we know, a coverage linebacker was at the very top of BB's need list. He had been looking at them for at least two years. As for Nate Solder, LT was probably the biggest need that year because Light was unsigned at the time.

 

[Wilfork#75]

You don't need elite talent to improve over the 2013 TE position. Elite talent at TE, though, can be a game-changing proposition.

I agree that adding a 2nd elite TE would be a huge boost to our offense, but with limited resources available I think our premium resources should be used in other areas, mainly the D-line. Unlike TE where we agree that we can improve without elite talent (although obviously the more talent the greater the improvement), I don't think the D-line will be improved by adding solid talent and role players. I think that is an area we need high end talent and playmakers that can impact a game.

I also don't like the idea of heading into the draft being forced to take a TE. I would much rather address it in FA and be comfortable with our position rather than rely on taking a rookie. That would still allow us to take a good one if the opportunity arises (I really do like ASJ in the late 2nd and Niklas in the 3rd) but we wouldn't be forced to reach to fill a need. I'm also not sure how McDaniels plans on using TE's in this system because he doesn't seem to be as TE-centric as Bill O'Brien. I would be very happy adding two TE's that are just solid role players that can do their job and allow Brady to spread the ball around and not rely too heavily on any individual. I am not a fan of TE's that can't block, give me a guy that can maul on the end of the line any day.

My reason for prioritizing the D-line so highly, and particularly the DT position is because we have nothing but question marks there. The only guy I have any real confidence being able to contribute next year is Chris Jones and he is best suited as a rotation pass rusher. Wilfork and Kelly are both ageing and coming off major injuries, not to mention the salary cap implications of both. Siliga certainly flashed potential but this is still a guy that was an UDFA that has been cut twice and traded in 3 seasons. He looked really promising but guys flash and fade away all the time. Vellano exceeded expectations but just has physical limitations when it comes to the NFL level and we really don't know if Armstead, Grissom or Forston can contribute anything of value in the NFL. Potentially we have a very strong group there if things go right, but the potential is also there for disaster if they don't. The way I look at things is how many of these guys would even make me think about not spending a high pick on a DT and the answer is none of them.

My list of guys I would be interested in in the 1st round is shortening. Baring a surprise guy falling (Evans, Mosley etc) these are the guys I would be interested in:

DT- Hageman
NT- Nix
DT- Donald
DT- Jernigan
S- Clinton-Dix
OL- Martin
OL- Yankey
OL- Kouandijo (move him to RG)

Outside of these guys I would much prefer a trade down, especially with the depth of this draft. My dream scenario if we could pull of a Mallett for #33 trade would be something like:

29. NT- Nix- ND
33- DT- Donald- Pitt
62- TE- ASJ/Niklas or C-Swanson
93- OG- Jackson or C- Richburg

 

[manxman2601]

I agree that adding a 2nd elite TE would be a huge boost to our offense, but with limited resources available I think our premium resources should be used in other areas, mainly the D-line. Unlike TE where we agree that we can improve without elite talent (although obviously the more talent the greater the improvement), I don't think the D-line will be improved by adding solid talent and role players. I think that is an area we need high end talent and playmakers that can impact a game.

I also don't like the idea of heading into the draft being forced to take a TE. I would much rather address it in FA and be comfortable with our position rather than rely on taking a rookie. That would still allow us to take a good one if the opportunity arises (I really do like ASJ in the late 2nd and Niklas in the 3rd) but we wouldn't be forced to reach to fill a need. I'm also not sure how McDaniels plans on using TE's in this system because he doesn't seem to be as TE-centric as Bill O'Brien. I would be very happy adding two TE's that are just solid role players that can do their job and allow Brady to spread the ball around and not rely too heavily on any individual. I am not a fan of TE's that can't block, give me a guy that can maul on the end of the line any day.

My reason for prioritizing the D-line so highly, and particularly the DT position is because we have nothing but question marks there. The only guy I have any real confidence being able to contribute next year is Chris Jones and he is best suited as a rotation pass rusher. Wilfork and Kelly are both ageing and coming off major injuries, not to mention the salary cap implications of both. Siliga certainly flashed potential but this is still a guy that was an UDFA that has been cut twice and traded in 3 seasons. He looked really promising but guys flash and fade away all the time. Vellano exceeded expectations but just has physical limitations when it comes to the NFL level and we really don't know if Armstead, Grissom or Forston can contribute anything of value in the NFL. Potentially we have a very strong group there if things go right, but the potential is also there for disaster if they don't. The way I look at things is how many of these guys would even make me think about not spending a high pick on a DT and the answer is none of them.

My list of guys I would be interested in in the 1st round is shortening. Baring a surprise guy falling (Evans, Mosley etc) these are the guys I would be interested in:

DT- Hageman
NT- Nix
DT- Donald
DT- Jernigan
S- Clinton-Dix
OL- Martin
OL- Yankey
OL- Kouandijo (move him to RG)

Outside of these guys I would much prefer a trade down, especially with the depth of this draft. My dream scenario if we could pull of a Mallett for #33 trade would be something like:

29. NT- Nix- ND
33- DT- Donald- Pitt
62- TE- ASJ/Niklas or C-Swanson
93- OG- Jackson or C- Richburg

Almost every single argument could be reversed and used to defend prioritising a TE over a DT. For Wilfork and Kelly one could cite Gronkowski's injury prone senses and there's a lot more behind Wiflork/ Kelly than there is behind Gronk so the we"ve got nothing but questions marks there argument works the other way too. (Actually that's not entirely true -we might actually have something at DT whereas we KNOW we have nothing behind Gronk). And why can we find a TE in FA but not a DT. Surely finding a DT in FA and then getting one later in the draft is actually a more preferable route considering the respective avail abilities in FA and the draft.

Now the one argument Against taking the TE early that I have considered and which you have suggested too is the McDaniels factor. It certainly can be argued that he likes to feature a WR centric offense and this COULD reduce the relative value of a TE. But also consider this. Since 2004 (Wilfork), BB has only drafted two DT in the first six rounds (Brace and Kareem Brown). It could equally be argued (and this season supports it) that DT is extremely low on BBs priority list in terms of important positions on the team.

 

[mayoclinic]

I will take issue with your next to last sentence when you talk about taking Collins "despite what was perceived as larger needs".

By many on this board. Deus, for one, and that's as close to God as you can get.

To be clear, I didn't mind trading down as long as they still got their safety. I knew the draft was 3-deep at the top of the position, so my thinking was that they couldn't drop down very far. When they dropped as far as they did, I was pissed/worried because I thought they'd miss out on all 3. When their turn came up again and Swearinger was still there, I thought BB had played it brilliantly and was giving him an internal hat tip for knowing the draft so well.

Then he took Collins and turned happiness into disgust...

Collins is a DE/LB who can't stand up at the point of attack, and who wasn't needed at the time.

And by plenty of draftniks and draft sites:

2013 NFL Draft team needs: New England Patriots - SBNation.com (Top 3 needs: WR, DB, DT; coverage LB not mentioned)
Team needs: New England Patriots | ProFootballTalk (Top needs: WR, DE, DT, DB)
ProFootballWeekly.com - New England Patriots: 2013 team needs (A coverage LB not listed among the top 3 defensive needs, let alone top 3 overall)

I personally felt that the need for a coverage LB, plus the need for a more complete 3-down LB than Spikes with Spikes in a contract year, plus Collins' upside and potential in all 3 phases made him a great pick. But lots of people disagreed. Obviously the FO didn't, and that's all that counts.

 

[manxman2601]

By many on this board. Deus, for one, and that's as close to God as you can get.



And by plenty of draftniks and draft sites:

2013 NFL Draft team needs: New England Patriots - SBNation.com (Top 3 needs: WR, DB, DT; coverage LB not mentioned)
Team needs: New England Patriots | ProFootballTalk (Top needs: WR, DE, DT, DB)
ProFootballWeekly.com - New England Patriots: 2013 team needs (A coverage LB not listed among the top 3 defensive needs, let alone top 3 overall)

I personally felt that the need for a coverage LB, plus the need for a more complete 3-down LB than Spikes with Spikes in a contract year, plus Collins' upside and potential in all 3 phases made him a great pick. But lots of people disagreed. Obviously the FO didn't, and that's all that counts.

Need as determined by fans is about as irrelevant as it gets. I only question why you bought it up because as you point out, need as determined by BB is "all that counts".

 

[mayoclinic]

Need as determined by fans is about as irrelevant as it gets. I only question why you bought it up because as you point out, need as determined by BB is "all that counts".

My point was that the perceived need by the public - fans and draftniks alike - often doesn't mesh with what BB does, and our appraisal of prospects often doesn't mesh with his. Obviously, if BB agrees with you about the need at the TE position being the greatest value and with your assessment of the prospects, he'll probably take a TE early on. Others feel that needs on DL and OL are more important. We won't know what BB thinks for 3 more months.

Sure, but all we can do is guess at what BB perceives needs to be. You obviously think TE is a paramount need, but you're just a fan like the rest of us, unless you're BB in disguise. Why bother to discuss what the team will do at all, since what we think or say is "as irrelevant as it gets"? We might just as well close the draft board and not waste our time.

We should just accept that whatever Manx says is the right answer. Don't waste your time arguing anything else - we're all "irrelevant as it gets". Until BB doers something different, then we can argue why he didn't just do what Manx said obviously needed to be done.

 

[p8ryts]

My point was that the perceived need by the public - fans and draftniks alike - often doesn't mesh with what BB does, and our appraisal of prospects often doesn't mesh with his. Obviously, if BB agrees with you about the need at the TE position being the greatest value and with your assessment of the prospects, he'll probably take a TE early on. Others feel that needs on DL and OL are more important. We won't know what BB thinks for 3 more months.

Sure, but all we can do is guess at what BB perceives needs to be. You obviously think TE is a paramount need, but you're just a fan like the rest of us, unless you're BB in disguise. Why bother to discuss what the team will do at all, since what we think or say is "as irrelevant as it gets"? We might just as well close the draft board and not waste our time.

We should just accept that whatever Manx says is the right answer. Don't waste your time arguing anything else - we're all "irrelevant as it gets". Until BB doers something different, then we can argue why he didn't just do what Manx said obviously needed to be done.

IMHO, I think a DT tackle that can push the pocket is the biggest need. Chandler Jones is going to wear down playing so many downs and being called upon to rush from the interior. Tommy Kelly was providing that push and was a big loss. If can return at that level or someone else can play at that level, it will make the DE's and DB's a lot better.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

IMHO, I think a DT tackle that can push the pocket is the biggest need. Chandler Jones is going to wear down playing so many downs and being called upon to rush from the interior. Tommy Kelly was providing that push and was a big loss. If can return at that level or someone else can play at that level, it will make the DE's and DB's a lot better.

Kelcy Quarles of SC is the guy in this draft that most resembles what you are looking for in a DT.

Unfortunately for us, BB does not draft quick twitch D line guys. He prefers read and react types. But on third and long Quarles would be huge in our defense because of that quick first step.

He's horrible against the run, see Wisconsin game, but as an interior pass rusher, which is what NFL QB's fear the most, and we desperately need, he is perfect for us.

 

[manxman2601]

My point was that the perceived need by the public - fans and draftniks alike - often doesn't mesh with what BB does, and our appraisal of prospects often doesn't mesh with his. Obviously, if BB agrees with you about the need at the TE position being the greatest value and with your assessment of the prospects, he'll probably take a TE early on. Others feel that needs on DL and OL are more important. We won't know what BB thinks for 3 more months.

Sure, but all we can do is guess at what BB perceives needs to be. You obviously think TE is a paramount need, but you're just a fan like the rest of us, unless you're BB in disguise. Why bother to discuss what the team will do at all, since what we think or say is "as irrelevant as it gets"? We might just as well close the draft board and not waste our time.

We should just accept that whatever Manx says is the right answer. Don't waste your time arguing anything else - we're all "irrelevant as it gets". Until BB doers something different, then we can argue why he didn't just do what Manx said obviously needed to be done.

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side? If you don't want your points being debated, just say so and I'll gladly comply and just give you the platitudes you are looking for.

 

[captain stone]

My list of guys I would be interested in in the 1st round is shortening. Baring a surprise guy falling (Evans, Mosley etc) these are the guys I would be interested in:

DT- Hageman
NT- Nix
DT- Donald
DT- Jernigan
S- Clinton-Dix
OL- Martin
OL- Yankey
OL- Kouandijo (move him to RG)

Outside of these guys I would much prefer a trade down, especially with the depth of this draft. My dream scenario if we could pull of a Mallett for #33 trade would be something like:

29. NT- Nix- ND
33- DT- Donald- Pitt
62- TE- ASJ/Niklas or C-Swanson
93- OG- Jackson or C- Richburg

I like your list, though I don't know if I would include Nix in it. Nothing against him, I just feel
that our first pick should be used on someone other than a 2-down space-eater.

 

[EwanSellars]

not too many guys id want in the first in the first i like Robinson, Donald, Hageman other wise I'd rather have us trade down for a 2nd and third and pick up guys like daquan jones, stanley jean baptiste, troy niklas, marcus smith and others hope we can get extra picks on day 2 since thats where the value is in this draft hopefully a similiar trade to last years vikings trade pops up

 

[manxman2601]

My first rounders right now are (in order):


Ebron
Hageman
ASJ
Gilbert*
Dennard*
Amaro, Tuitt, Donald (can't separate them)
Roby*
Martin?

I've probably forgotten someone so I reserve the right to correct any **** up

 

[Wilfork#75]

Almost every single argument could be reversed and used to defend prioritising a TE over a DT. For Wilfork and Kelly one could cite Gronkowski's injury prone senses and there's a lot more behind Wiflork/ Kelly than there is behind Gronk so the we"ve got nothing but questions marks there argument works the other way too. (Actually that's not entirely true -we might actually have something at DT whereas we KNOW we have nothing behind Gronk). And why can we find a TE in FA but not a DT. Surely finding a DT in FA and then getting one later in the draft is actually a more preferable route considering the respective avail abilities in FA and the draft.

The difference to me is I think TE can be upgraded by solid role players while we need high end talent to upgrade the defensive line. TE is a much more cost effective position to fill in FA vs DT, where to get a guy that can have an impact we will have to shell out significantly more money.

I am in no way against upgrading the TE position, I just think our premium resources should be used else where because simply DT is a much more important position than TE. On offense you can scheme to hide deficiencies in players because you dictate how they are used. On defense you can't hide and you cant win without defensive line play. The opposition dictates what happens and there is only so much you can do to cover for deficiencies.I would much rather have to try and scheme to cover a hole at TE than be forced to play with a weak D-line.

But I don't see why we can't improve both, I just think the premium resources should be used in a different way. I think a solid vet FA along with a mid/late round draft pick and converting Harrison to TE would be a solid group.

I like your list, though I don't know if I would include Nix in it. Nothing against him, I just feel
that our first pick should be used on someone other than a 2-down space-eater.

I think this is where my opinion differs from most, I see Nix as far more than just a 2-down player. I love his quick feet for a big guy and his violent hands. He does a really good job of getting initial penetration, and while he may lack the closing speed to get home and put up sack numbers, what he will do is create pressure up the middle, force throws and collapse the pocket so opposing QB's don't have a chance to step up. I said towards the start of the season I think the guy that would benefit the most from having Nix along side him would be Chandler Jones because his sack numbers would rise with QB's unable to move up in the pocket to throw. I actually think Nix is a superior pass rusher to Wilfork.

To me a quality NT could have a similar impact to what Talib did on our secondary. Its not just about his individual play that matters, its the trickle down effect it has on the entire front 7. A quality NT is as much a facilitator as he is a play maker. He makes those around him better and gives the team the versatility and flexibility to play any defensive scheme or front. He commands double teams to free up rushers off the edge, he take on blocks for his LBers to make plays and he creates an anchor in the middle of the defense to stuff anything inside. For me a legitimate NT is a very important position.

Sometimes I have to go back and watch Nix in 2012 to remember how good he is. It's a strange feeling because he was hurt this year and didn't perform great so I am hoping he falls to the late first round. But at the same time I think he is an elite, top-10 talent prospect that is completely dominant when healthy. I think he would have been the best DT in the draft last year and going back and watching his 2012 tape I think he is the best DT in this years draft. He really does remind me of a young Vince Wilfork and I would love to have him on this team. A dream pairing of him with Aaron Donald would certainly add something to our defense.

 

[manxman2601]

The difference to me is I think TE can be upgraded by solid role players while we need high end talent to upgrade the defensive line. TE is a much more cost effective position to fill in FA vs DT, where to get a guy that can have an impact we will have to shell out significantly more money.

I am in no way against upgrading the TE position, I just think our premium resources should be used else where because simply DT is a much more important position than TE. On offense you can scheme to hide deficiencies in players because you dictate how they are used. On defense you can't hide and you cant win without defensive line play. The opposition dictates what happens and there is only so much you can do to cover for deficiencies.I would much rather have to try and scheme to cover a hole at TE than be forced to play with a weak D-line.

But I don't see why we can't improve both, I just think the premium resources should be used in a different way. I think a solid vet FA along with a mid/late round draft pick and converting Harrison to TE would be a solid group.




.

This is where we disagree. The interior defensive line can be built around value later round picks (just look at the Seahawks) but Brady badly missed having a quality TE to throw to lat year. And as for value at the TE position, I'll just offer up Shiancoe, Fells, Hooman, Mulligan and Ballard as evidence for where making do tends to take you.

I have no problem with Hageman (most likely will be gone) and Donald (a BB fit?) and maybe Tuitt but aside from them, it's TE all the way for me. In my book, Ebron and ASJ are borderline elite and Amaro and Niklas are good to quality starters. However, as you said previously, that will depend on Josh McDaniels.

By the way, not sure I completely agree but that was a great write up on Nix.

 

[mayoclinic]

My first rounders right now are (in order):


Ebron
Hageman
ASJ
Gilbert*
Dennard*
Amaro, Tuitt, Donald (can't separate them)
Roby*
Martin?

I've probably forgotten someone so I reserve the right to correct any **** up

My top 25 or so board for the Pats looks something like this at the moment (in rough order):

1st round values:

(I'm excluding guys who look like top 15 locks at the moment)

Trent Murphy
Ra'Shede Hageman
Timmy Jernigan (hard choice between Jernigan and Hageman)
Eric Ebron
Calvin Pryor
Louis Nix
Kony Ealy (Pryor, Nix and Ealy could easily swap positions)
Justin Gilbert **
Darqueze Dennard **
David Yankey (borderline 1st/2nd value)
Zach Martin (borderline 1st/2nd value)

2nd round values:

Aaron Donald
Christian Jones
Marcus Smith
Kyle Van Noy (Jones, Smith and Van Noy are very close for me)
Jace Amaro
Stephon Tuitt
Lamarcus Joyner
Jason Verrett **
Troy Niklas
Austin Seferian-Jenkins (I have Niklas and ASJ very close right now)
Kyle Fuller
Scott Crichton
Marcus Roberson **
Xavier Sua'Filo
Travis Swanson

** = only if Aqib Talib or a comparable #1 CB is not signed

 

[Wilfork#75]

This is where we disagree. The interior defensive line can be built around value later round picks (just look at the Seahawks) but Brady badly missed having a quality TE to throw to lat year. And as for value at the TE position, I'll just offer up Shiancoe, Fells, Hooman, Mulligan and Ballard as evidence for where making do tends to take you.

The misses we had on TE last year is certainly a valid point. I do wonder how they would have approached the position last year if the Hernandez situation happened before FA. On the Seahwaks DL, they also have the luxury of having an elite secondary and depth in pass rushers. Their scheme allows them to get away with more one dimensional run-stuffers inside and pass rushers on the edge. They also expended quite a lot of resources on pass rushers which I would be happy to do as well, I just don't see any of value in this draft.

Outside of Clowney and Ealy I really don't care for the DE's in this draft. I think Dee Ford is overrated and I've fallen on Murphy as a DE (although I think he could be a good 3-4 OLB). If there was a potential stud available at the end of round 1 I would be all for taking them but I just don't like the talent there. Similarly if there wasn't Hageman, Nix or Donald I wouldn't advocate taking a DT for the sake of it, I just think it's the best fit for value, talent and need.

I have no problem with Hageman (most likely will be gone) and Donald (a BB fit?) and maybe Tuitt but aside from them, it's TE all the way for me. In my book, Ebron and ASJ are borderline elite and Amaro and Niklas are good to quality starters. However, as you said previously, that will depend on Josh McDaniels.

By the way, not sure I completely agree but that was a great write up on Nix.

I really like ASJ and Niklas because they can block as well as have upside as pass catchers. Niklas would probably be my ideal TE if it wasn't for the concussion issue. On ASJ, the question is really what are we going to get? I think he has elite upside but isn't there yet as a prospect. I wouldn't want to spend a 1st round pick on him, but if he is there in the late 2nd then I think he is worth the risk.

In the end it comes down to opportunity cost. I think the drop off at DT in terms of talent and fit is greater than that at TE. I am comfortable with taking 1 or 2 TE's in rounds 3-7 and them being able to contribute (although I would prefer to add at least 1 reliable vet FA). Outside of the top DT's I question how much of an impact they can have and what they can offer above what we already have. I see Tuitt a lot like ASJ, elite measurables and almost unlimited potential, but hasn't lived up to he hype and is a risk. Once again, he isn't a 1st rounder for me, but late 2nd I would probably take him and see what he can turn into.

I know I'm higher on Nix than almost anyone so I understand a lot of people won't agree with me there. With Wilfork's age, injury and cap hit it almost seems too perfect that we might have a chance at a guy that reminds me so much of a young VW.

 

[manxman2601]

The misses we had on TE last year is certainly a valid point. I do wonder how they would have approached the position last year if the Hernandez situation happened before FA. On the Seahwaks DL, they also have the luxury of having an elite secondary and depth in pass rushers. Their scheme allows them to get away with more one dimensional run-stuffers inside and pass rushers on the edge. They also expended quite a lot of resources on pass rushers which I would be happy to do as well, I just don't see any of value in this draft.

Outside of Clowney and Ealy I really don't care for the DE's in this draft. I think Dee Ford is overrated and I've fallen on Murphy as a DE (although I think he could be a good 3-4 OLB). If there was a potential stud available at the end of round 1 I would be all for taking them but I just don't like the talent there. Similarly if there wasn't Hageman, Nix or Donald I wouldn't advocate taking a DT for the sake of it, I just think it's the best fit for value, talent and need.



I really like ASJ and Niklas because they can block as well as have upside as pass catchers. Niklas would probably be my ideal TE if it wasn't for the concussion issue. On ASJ, the question is really what are we going to get? I think he has elite upside but isn't there yet as a prospect. I wouldn't want to spend a 1st round pick on him, but if he is there in the late 2nd then I think he is worth the risk.

In the end it comes down to opportunity cost. I think the drop off at DT in terms of talent and fit is greater than that at TE. I am comfortable with taking 1 or 2 TE's in rounds 3-7 and them being able to contribute (although I would prefer to add at least 1 reliable vet FA). Outside of the top DT's I question how much of an impact they can have and what they can offer above what we already have. I see Tuitt a lot like ASJ, elite measurables and almost unlimited potential, but hasn't lived up to he hype and is a risk. Once again, he isn't a 1st rounder for me, but late 2nd I would probably take him and see what he can turn into.

I know I'm higher on Nix than almost anyone so I understand a lot of people won't agree with me there. With Wilfork's age, injury and cap hit it almost seems too perfect that we might have a chance at a guy that reminds me so much of a young VW.

The way I see DT value:

Ellis is probably better value than Nix ( I know you disagree)
Caraun Reid is better value than Jernigan

This is why I like Tuitt, Hageman and Donald so much in the first because I don't see them being replicated so easily.

 

[captain stone]

I think this is where my opinion differs from most, I see Nix as far more than just a 2-down player. I love his quick feet for a big guy and his violent hands. He does a really good job of getting initial penetration, and while he may lack the closing speed to get home and put up sack numbers, what he will do is create pressure up the middle, force throws and collapse the pocket so opposing QB's don't have a chance to step up. I said towards the start of the season I think the guy that would benefit the most from having Nix along side him would be Chandler Jones because his sack numbers would rise with QB's unable to move up in the pocket to throw. I actually think Nix is a superior pass rusher to Wilfork.

To me a quality NT could have a similar impact to what Talib did on our secondary. Its not just about his individual play that matters, its the trickle down effect it has on the entire front 7. A quality NT is as much a facilitator as he is a play maker. He makes those around him better and gives the team the versatility and flexibility to play any defensive scheme or front. He commands double teams to free up rushers off the edge, he take on blocks for his LBers to make plays and he creates an anchor in the middle of the defense to stuff anything inside. For me a legitimate NT is a very important position.

Sometimes I have to go back and watch Nix in 2012 to remember how good he is. It's a strange feeling because he was hurt this year and didn't perform great so I am hoping he falls to the late first round. But at the same time I think he is an elite, top-10 talent prospect that is completely dominant when healthy. I think he would have been the best DT in the draft last year and going back and watching his 2012 tape I think he is the best DT in this years draft. He really does remind me of a young Vince Wilfork and I would love to have him on this team. A dream pairing of him with Aaron Donald would certainly add something to our defense.

If Wilfork were released, and our other needs (DE, TE, C/G) began to be filled with the subsequent
cap savings, then I could get on board with Nix at 29. I just can't envision a situation in which both
an unrestructed (greatly) Wilfork & Nix consume our resources, in cap & draft capital.

Great stuff, BTW, regardless.

 

[kennyb]

Wilfork and others cut, Talib walks, Edelman re- signed
Mallet traded for high 2nd.

1. Kyle Van Noy
2a. Trade for 3rd and 5th
2b. Kyle Fuller CB

3a. Jim Ward S
3b. Joel Bitonio G/T/C

4. Cody Latimer WR

5. Zach Kerr DT

6a. Ted Bolser TE
6b. Trey Millard FB
6c. Aaron Colvin CB/S

 

[mayoclinic]

Another quick bump.

- Trade Mallett for #33. I'll keep this for now.
- Cut Wilfork, sign UFA DT Linval Joseph (NY Giants)
- Resign Talib and Blount
- Sign UFA TE Brandon Pettigrew (Detroit)
- Edelman walks, sign UFA WR Riley Cooper/Jeremy Maclin (Philadelphia)
- Sign UFA OC Alex Mack (Cleveland)
- Wait to sign a UDFA QB and a veteran when teams cut down in June
- Gregory, Connolly and Kelly end up getting cut after June 1

Draft:

- Trade 29 to San Francisco for 56 and 61.

- Trade 33 to Jacksonville for 39 and 102. Gus Bradley moves up if Dee Ford is still on the board.

39. Stephon Tuitt, DT/DE, Notre Dame. 6'5" 312#. Big DE who can also play DT. If Aaron Donald is still on the board, he would be tempting.

56. Deone Bucannon, S, Washington St. 6'1" 216#. Pats need a physical enforce who can cover. Bucannon is in-between Dashon Goldson and Kam Chancellor.

61. Joel Bitonio, OL, Nevada. 6'4" 307#. An immediate upgrade at RG, and a possible 5-position lineman.

- Trade 62 to Cleveland for 69 and their 5th round pick.

69. Marcus Smith, DE/OLB, Louisville. 6' 3 1/2" 258#. Guys who can play in space or play on the line and who can rush the passer give tremendous versatility.

93. Billy Turner, OL, North Dakota St. 6'5" 312#. More OL help, with another guy who can play tackle or guard, and who has huge upside.

102. Christian Jones, LB, Florida St. 6'3" 236#. Jones can play all 3 LB positions, can cover TEs or WRs 1-on-1, and can be used as a blitzer and sub rusher.

124. Richard Rodgers, Move TE, Cal. 6'4" 245#. Arthur Lynch and Xavier Grimble are also options.

5 (from Cleveland). Aaron Lynch, DE, USF. 6'6" 260#. Serious depth as an edge rusher behind Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich.

6a. Antone Exum, DB, Virginia Tech (6' 220#) or Aaron Colvin, CB, Oklahoma (5' 11 1/2" 194#). Big, physical CBs for depth outside. Both have day 2 talent, but fall due to injuries.

6b. Logan Thomas, QB, Virginia Tech. 6'6" 250#. A bit of a gamble, but he has the potential to convert to TE if he bombs at QB. The Pats will bring a veteran in during TC to compete.

6 (comp). Jonathan Dowling, DB, Western Kentucky (6' 1/2" 198#) or Dontae Johnson, DB, North Carolina St. (6' 2 1/2" 199#). Big DBs who can play CB or safety.

6 (comp). Trey Millard, FB/H-back, Oklahoma. 6'3" 253#. Versatile swiss army knife.

7. Colt Lyerla, TE, Oregon. 6'5" 250#. Moon shot.

Main goals:

Offense:

1. Add depth and talent behind Gronk at TE. Brandon Pettigrew is a fierce blocker who will allow the Pats to run 2-TE sets. He's also a great red zone target. Richard Rodgers is a poor man's Jace Amaro. Colt Lyerla and Mark Harrison have potential. Trey Millard can also play the H-back position, and Logan Thomas could be a TE conversion if he doesn't pan out as a QB.

2. Upgrade the OL. Alex Mack is a huge upgrade at center over Wendell. Joel Bitonio and Billy Turner are tackle/guard prospects with the versatility to play multiple positions, and a ton of upside.

Defense:

1. Upgrade the DL. Linval Joseph is a run-stopper who can push the pocket and generate some pressure. Stephon Tuitt can be a big LDE or a pressuring DT. Armond Armstead will hopefully be back and call also play both outside or inside. Aaron Lynch has 1st round talent from the neck down. Michael Buchanan will hopefully make a 2nd year leap. Marcus Smith can play on the DL or in space, as can Jamie Collins and Dont'a Hightower.

2. Upgrade the middle of the defense and get more athletic in space. Collins, Smith and Jones are all fluid played who can match up on TEs and cover a tremendous amount of space, as well as rush the passer.

3. Get bigger and tougher in the secondary. Deone Bucannon would give the Pats a rangy, physical safety that they haven't had since Rodney retired. He'd be our "Kam Chancellor" opposite McCourty. Exum/Colvin and Dowling/Johnson would add size, depth and physicality in the secondary at both safety and CB.

I think this draft would accomplish those goals.