Super Bowl loss destroyed the Seahawks

[captain stone]

College coaches are often directly involved with scouting and trying to recruit blue chip prospects. For example, Saban and Meyer will go directly to a prospect's home and speak with their parents in the recruitment process. At the NFL level, a coach needs to lean much more on his scouting department. Those kids that Carroll drafted from 2010-2012? He had been familiar with them for at least 5-7 years (their high school days).

Similar results happened when Chuck Fairbanks (1973) and Ron Meyer (1982) arrived here directly from college HC gigs.

 

[varjao]

The Seahawks have been showing signs of disfunctionality for at least 3 years, but winning helps to keep things under the rug, let's see how that goes from now on.

A lot can be said about their situation:

- Losing the edge they had with great players under rookie contract.
- The bad drafts that have been already discussed in this thread.
- Pete's "player friendly" style, ask Rex Ryan's teams how that works out long term.

But the Elephant in the room in my opinion is Russell Wilson. Although he's still delivering, the league has figure out his style so he is not doing that much damage anymore. He is an good an accurate passer but he is not tall and that hurts, also his scrambling ability is not so effective anymore, and he is getting banged up, at least he got in the past 2 seasons.

Bottom line: Scrambling QB's didn't take over the league like some predicted a few years back, and they never will. Cam already flamed out after his MVP season and I'm not even going to bring Kaepernick in this discussion.

 

[pazrul72]

I never had a problem with BB going for the 4th and 2 against the Colts. If the Pats make it then the game is over. If not then they have maybe a 20% chance fo stopping the Colts from going 30 yards. With the way the game was flowing it seemed unlikely they'd stop Manning regardless. He gave up about 40 yards in field position for the chance to end it with his stronger unit. With the way the past Super Bowl was going at the end if Atlanta was ever in that spot they should have done the same as they were not going to stop Brady regardless of drive length.

The pass play by the Seahawks was not a horrible call. The outcome certainly was for Seattle but if it falls incomplete it gets forgotten.

The only issue I had with 4th and 2 is the play call on 3rd and 2. If you know you are going for it set it up with a run to maybe catch the colts off guard or make it 4th and inches so play action would have been very effective or you don't let the ref f*ck you over about the spot of the catch.

 

[Vindicate]

The Seahawks have been showing signs of disfunctionality for at least 3 years, but winning helps to keep things under the rug, let's see how that goes from now on.

A lot can be said about their situation:

- Losing the edge they had with great players under rookie contract.
- The bad drafts that have been already discussed in this thread.
- Pete's "player friendly" style, ask Rex Ryan's teams how that works out long term.

But the Elephant in the room in my opinion is Russell Wilson. Although he's still delivering, the league has figure out his style so he is not doing that much damage anymore. He is an good an accurate passer but he is not tall and that hurts, also his scrambling ability is not so effective anymore, and he is getting banged up, at least he got in the past 2 seasons.

Bottom line: Scrambling QB's didn't take over the league like some predicted a few years back, and they never will. Cam already flamed out after his MVP season and I'm not even going to bring Kaepernick in this discussion.

Eh. Wilson is hard to address. Those terrible drafts have yielded a really, really bad offensive line. I think the few games they held up last year, Wilson had some supreme performances. Could be wrong, a bit foggy.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Is this the Seth Wickersham who claimed that the NFL found loads of incriminating evidence of cheating by the Patriots but destroyed it on Goodell's orders?

The guy who has either made the sports journalist scoop of the century or is lower than John Tomase. And people are reading his stuff? And taking it seriously?

What have I missed?

 

[Vindicate]

Similar results happened when Chuck Fairbanks (1973) and Ron Meyer (1982) arrived here directly from college HC gigs.

Would be interesting to see Carroll in a scouting role.

 

[Former Fan]

Is this the Seth Wickersham who claimed that the NFL found loads of incriminating evidence of cheating by the Patriots but destroyed it on Goodell's orders?

The guy who has either made the sports journalist scoop of the century or is lower than John Tomase. And people are reading his stuff? And taking it seriously?

What have I missed?

Yup. That's him

I assume most believe it because it tells them what they want to hear. Personally, he could say the sky was blue and I'd want some corroboration from a named source before I believed it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

College coaches are often directly involved with scouting and trying to recruit blue chip prospects. For example, Saban and Meyer will go directly to a prospect's home and speak with their parents in the recruitment process. At the NFL level, a coach needs to lean much more on his scouting department. Those kids that Carroll drafted from 2010-2012? He had been familiar with them for at least 5-7 years (their high school days).

Exactly, coaches nowadays will do the latest dance or sleepover a prospects home like Jim Harbough.

Pete has a thing for Sherman and really likes, admires him. Obviously dating back to high school. He allows and needs that personality.

That offensive line and offense as a whole was carried by Lynch during an amazing stretch of individual play. Very mediocre, even last year.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Yup. That's him

I assume most believe it because it tells them what they want to hear. Personally, he could say the sky was blue and I'd want some corroboration from a named source before I believed it.

Yes! ΦYK him!

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The pass play by the Seahawks was not a horrible call. The outcome certainly was for Seattle but if it falls incomplete it gets forgotten.

Calling a pass is not a horrible call. But that's not the pass they should have called. I still think a rollout would have been the way to go. The D would have to honor Wilson's threat to run it in. And he could just throw it away or run OOB if neither the pass nor a path to the endzone presented itself.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The only issue I had with 4th and 2 is the play call on 3rd and 2. If you know you are going for it set it up with a run to maybe catch the colts off guard or make it 4th and inches so play action would have been very effective or you don't let the ref f*ck you over about the spot of the catch.

Absolutely. I don't mind playing for four downs there at all. But the playcalling sequence made it pretty clear that despite what BB may have said to the press, he did not go into the series thinking about playing four down football.

 

[goheels22002]

I totally agree. To the extent the underlying facts and opinions laid out in the piece are true, you see multiple examples of Sherman raging at the lack of accountability that Carroll's sunny-side-up routine tends to leave aside. If they're really treating Wilson differently (i.e., not demanding that he improve upon his errors), then I honestly can't see how other locker room leaders wouldn't have a fit over that type of atmosphere.

The oversimplified microcosm of the 6-6 tie game with Arizona lays out the thesis of the piece very well - Defense plays very well, carrying the team, offense / ST's scores 6 points and they don't win - Carroll says things are great and gives "participation trophy" level praise to everyone, including the OL who had been terrible.

Sherman goes ballistic because this isn't championship caliber behavior on an organizational scale.






We've seen Carroll maintain the Seahawks' system in the short term - they were nearly 2x champs, 3/4 division winners, playoff contenders since 2013, etc. There's now the question of whether the Seahawks can propagate their success forward systematically over the medium / long term. If they cannot, then you basically have to see the Seahawks' success as a personality driven result (i.e., they were lucky enough to catch lightning in a bottle with good young QB plus Lynch, Bennett, Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor et al. all on the team at the same time).

If Carroll cannot adapt his program to either develop new players to replace superstars, or build upon the remaining time they have with their superstars with a system meant to support them, then we can identify it as a failure on his part.

BB has been amazing at retooling the Patriots, especially in identifying weaknesses via very honest self-scouting.

Seattle's been very good for a while now. They beat the Pats last year on a Sunday night with Brady and looked intimidating doing it in Foxboro. Half of their division is the dregs of the league, so they'll be right there with Arizona again in 2017-2018. I think they drafted pretty well this year and will again be in the thick of it come December.

The problem is managing these egos and foolish contracts of aging veterans who think somehow they are bigger than the team. Carroll has never been good at that. Like so many other teams, The Seahags gave Sherman way too much guaranteed money - $40M over four years in 2015. Now he's a cancer with a cap hit of $11M if they dump him. Belichick would have let him walk or given him an incentive=laden deal.

This is why emotionally mature men like McCourty are the best investment.

 

[goheels22002]

Absolutely. I don't mind playing for four downs there at all. But the playcalling sequence made it pretty clear that despite what BB may have said to the press, he did not go into the series thinking about playing four down football.

With this 2017 defense, Belichick would have punted the crap out of the ball and said, "Up yours, Peyton, you massive foreheaded huckster."

I just love the secondary in 2017. Better than 2015, and that was awesome.

 

[PatriotReign]

Seattle's biggest mistake was trading the anchor of their line Max Unger, and a first for Jimmy Graham. Graham doesn't block and is extremely soft. Their line has been gutted and they've been unable to replace the talent that was there.

As to Wilson let's not forget that this year will only be his 6th full NFL season. And before his injury plagued 2016 campaign he posted 34 TD's/8 INTS while completing 68% of his passes.

 

[BTTA]

I'm suspicious at how quickly this dried up for Carroll. He's been around a long time. He should have a huge network of friends in coaching at D1 schools feeding him information, to offset the fact that the kids he recruited personally are long gone. If he doesn't, it says a lot about him as a person and coach.

Those players that they drafted from 2010-2012 were all players that Carroll scouted when they were coming out of high school and into college. He was extremely familiar with them. Since that familiarity has dissipated, their draft results have followed suit.

that's an interesting theory. why wouldn't carroll's scouting work at the next level, though, from college to NFL? is he less involved with scouting at the seahawks than he was at USC?
.

College coaches are often directly involved with scouting and trying to recruit blue chip prospects. For example, Saban and Meyer will go directly to a prospect's home and speak with their parents in the recruitment process. At the NFL level, a coach needs to lean much more on his scouting department. Those kids that Carroll drafted from 2010-2012? He had been familiar with them for at least 5-7 years (their high school days).

 

[Bledsoehasaring]

I don't think that's close to true though, as they've still finished top 3 in points allowed in both years since the SB loss.

They believed they were unbeatable and invincible. Think tiger woods. They are not playing at their peak level anymore.

 

[stinkypete]

This is a hell of an indictment for a team that has made the divisional round in each of the past 5 seasons.

The decline in Seattle, and it has not been that significant, is the result of normal roster attrition. They had to move on from the Byron Maxwells and Bruce Irvins in order to keep their top flight talent. Also notable is that, during their 2013 - 14 peak, Russell Wilson was playing under a rookie deal, giving the team essentially a $20 million cap bump over competitors that pay their elite QBs like elite QBs.

Seattle's drafts have been fine enough, except their strange aversion to 1st round picks. The last Seahakws 1st round pick was Irvin. Since then they have done a decent job rounding off the depth with day 2 players, but have lacked that big ticket piece.

 

[Koma]

I found this pretty humorous...
Others told Seth Wickersham he “nailed it” on Seahawks


So, his article from unnamed sources was really on point. To prove it, he sights...unnamed sources!

It's an amazing coincidence that Wickersham never speaks with an anonymous source that disagrees with the premise of his articles.

 

[Oswlek]

The Seahawks have been showing signs of disfunctionality for at least 3 years, but winning helps to keep things under the rug, let's see how that goes from now on.

A lot can be said about their situation:

- Losing the edge they had with great players under rookie contract.
- The bad drafts that have been already discussed in this thread.
- Pete's "player friendly" style, ask Rex Ryan's teams how that works out long term.

But the Elephant in the room in my opinion is Russell Wilson. Although he's still delivering, the league has figure out his style so he is not doing that much damage anymore. He is an good an accurate passer but he is not tall and that hurts, also his scrambling ability is not so effective anymore, and he is getting banged up, at least he got in the past 2 seasons.

Bottom line: Scrambling QB's didn't take over the league like some predicted a few years back, and they never will. Cam already flamed out after his MVP season and I'm not even going to bring Kaepernick in this discussion.

Wilson is not remotely the problem, an OL that is embarrassingly understaffed is. Nor is Russell the run-as-a-primary-weapon kind of QB that Keep and Cam are. He is a passer who just happens to be very mobile.... and who is frustratingly adept at taking what is there without absorbing a big hit.

As an illustration of both of your flawed premises, all the injuries suffered by Wilson in 2016 occurred while he was in the pocket.

 

[sb1]

Link:
Warren Moon: Many Seahawks Have Not Gotten Over Super Bowl Loss To Patriots