Stat question

[danny88]

Can anyone give me the career stats for Brady vs Manning that show how close they are.

It was posted before, need them.

Thanks

 

[biffman]

Can anyone give me the career stats for Brady vs Manning that show how close they are.

It was posted before, need them.

Thanks

Brady: 2044 com, 3268 att, 23,335yds, 62.5%, 168td, 80int, 90.9 rating
manning: 3246 com, 5055 att, 38,905yds, 64.2%, 285td, 141int, 94.8 rating

 

[solman]

Brady: 2044 com, 3268 att, 23,335yds, 62.5%, 168td, 80int, 90.9 rating
manning: 3246 com, 5055 att, 38,905yds, 64.2%, 285td, 141int, 94.8 rating

Does anybody have an up to date break down of Brady and Manning indoors and outdoors?

Prior 2006 season, Brady led in both comparisons (proving that Manning's edge at the time could be explained entirely by him playing indoors, and not even factoring in his vastly superior receivers).

I'd like to see how those stats have evolved.

 

[He Ban Me]

Does anybody have an up to date break down of Brady and Manning indoors and outdoors?

Prior 2006 season, Brady led in both comparisons (proving that Manning's edge at the time could be explained entirely by him playing indoors, and not even factoring in his vastly superior receivers).

I'd like to see how those stats have evolved.

Anyone know how many indoor teams there are, and how many "indoor" games Brady has played?

Let's see

Jets-no
Fins-no
Bills-no
Browns-no
Steelers-no
Ravens-no
Bengals-no
Jax-no
Tennessee-no
Houston-we'll say yes
Indy-yes
Oakland-no
SD-no
KC-no
Denver-no


Dallas-I'd say no
Skins-no
NYG-no
Philly-no
Bears-no
Gbay-no
Lions-yes
Vikes-yes
Panthers-no
TBay-no
N.O.-yes
Falcons-yes
Rams-yes
Cardinals-no
Hawks-no
49ers-no

Of those "yeses", how many has brady played, and how good were they at the time.

Houston-might just now be coming around
Indy-pretty good
Vikes-When's the last time they made PO's??
Lions-Ditto
N.O.-1 year wonder?
Rams-pretty decent historically

So, 6 teams, 2 pretty decent historically. The vast majority of PM's dome games are at home. How well does Brady play at home??

 

[solman]

Anyone know how many indoor teams there are, and how many "indoor" games Brady has played?

Here is a CHFF article from last year.

As you can see, despite having DRAMATICALLY inferior receivers to Manning, Brady has surpassed him both indoors and outdoors.

HBM, are you seriously going to make the argument that playing in a dome doesn't have a dramatic positive impact on QB ratings? Are you seriously going to argue that a huge portion of Manning's statistical success isn't the result of where he plays?

I don't think Brady is going to beat Manning's record of 49 TDs this year. But that's only because it can be really hard to throw TDs in Foxboro during December.

None of this changes the fact that given identical receivers and playing conditions, Brady is a far superior QB to Manning.

 

[He Ban Me]

Here is a CHFF article from last year.

As you can see, despite having DRAMATICALLY inferior receivers to Manning, Brady has surpassed him both indoors and outdoors.

HBM, are you seriously going to make the argument that playing in a dome doesn't have a dramatic positive impact on QB ratings? Are you seriously going to argue that a huge portion of Manning's statistical success isn't the result of where he plays?

I don't think Brady is going to beat Manning's record of 49 TDs this year. But that's only because it can be really hard to throw TDs in Foxboro during December.

None of this changes the fact that given identical receivers and playing conditions, Brady is a far superior QB to Manning.

I'll respond with a "write-in" comment that was included in a Michael Smith column (not my comment).


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

"Brady's a great QB. But this whole receiver comparison thing is kind of silly. If you're going to ramp up the 'What would Brady have done with Manning's supporting cast, and vice versa' debate, keep it fair. Make sure that your definition of 'supporting cast' includes the respective defenses and coaches. If you don't, then you're ignoring that both players are part of organizations with different bottom lines, different philosophies, and different owners. Don't stop at the receivers. Ask yourself the following: which owner (Jim Irsay or Bob Kraft) would you rather have in a quest for a Super Bowl? Which coach: (Bill) Belichick or (Jim) Mora? Which defense: one that allows, on average, less than 14 points per game (2001, 2003, 2004 Pats) or one that allows more than 22 (2001, 2003, and 2004 Colts)? One that allowed 22, 21, and 27 offensive TDs, or one that allowed 50, 40 and 38? You get the point. Both QBs are great. It's my belief that if you flipped the teams (and not just the receivers), Manning would have 3 rings, and Brady would have more passing yards and TDs. But that observation is no fun, is it? If there is any poetic justice and cosmic symmetry to come into play here, (Tony) Dungy will craft a defensive game plan to stymie the Pats' offensive juggernaut, and the Colts will go to win the Super Bowl after Brady sets the record to TD passes in a season. That would be great theater."
David
Asheville, N.C.



EDIT:

I don't take issue with ANY Pats fan thinking The Boy Wonder is a better QB, but to say "far superior" erodes your credibility.

It is as if folks think PM is some sort of test tube QB, created to destroy opponents under all the right conditions. The perfect QB for perfect weather. Bunk. Generally, half of his games played are outdoors. For the most part, ALL QB's have pretty decent weather through mid to end November. Certainly, the last 6 games of each season for NE are not:

*ALL AT HOME IN BELOW FREEZING WEATHER
*ARE ALL MEANINGFUL, as sometimes, seeds are locked up before the last game of the season.


I'd be curious to see how many late season home td's Manning has thrown
I'd be curious to see TB's TD passes early in the season versus late in the season.
I wonder how many TD's PM would throw if he had a higher caliber defense for the majority of his career.
Indy has pretty much built their team around the offense and Peyton. NE traditionally has not gone that route. Brady has not been forced to score a ton of points.
There are just so many variables, things you can throw at this, it makes your argument ridiculous. If TD passes are what is most important to BB and the Pats, then they would have gone out and signed top receivers long ago. It is funny how you guys sell your past WRs so short. Branch, Brown, Patten, Coates(??-not sure how long he played with TB). It's not like you had a bunch of scrubs. If you are a strating NFL wideout, then a top notch QB like Brady will find a way to get you the ball.

 

[He Ban Me]

Does anybody have an up to date break down of Brady and Manning indoors and outdoors?

Prior 2006 season, Brady led in both comparisons (proving that Manning's edge at the time could be explained entirely by him playing indoors, and not even factoring in his vastly superior receivers).

I'd like to see how those stats have evolved.

100 of PM's 285 TD's have been on the road. 17 of those 100 are in Domes
185 of PM's 285 TD's were at home.
83TD's Outdoors/On the Road(30%)
66% of his TD's are at home.

You can do the homework on TB.

 

[solman]

It is as if folks think PM is some sort of test tube QB, created to destroy opponents under all the right conditions. The perfect QB for perfect weather. Bunk. Generally, half of his games played are outdoors.

As of the CHFF article, just 43% of Peyton's games had been played outdoors.

Once Peyton leaves the security of the dome, his passer rating goes down by 16 points.

16 points is the difference between Joe Montana and Doug Flutie.

Lest anybody think that this phenomenon is a result of home field advantage, remember that Tom Brady's passer rating INCREASES by 16.5 points when he goes on the road and plays in a dome versus playing outdoors (most of those games being at home).

You can not consider ANY of Peyton's numbers without acknowledging that they are massively inflated by the fact that he has played four out of every seven games in a QB friendly dome.

Even without the dome advantage, Peyton is still an all-pro QB who deserves serious hall of fame consideration. But he would hold none of the passing records that he holds now (and few of the career records that he will eventually get).

Without the dome advantage, nobody would even consider comparing him to all time greats like Joe Montana, Dan Marino or Tom Brady.

 

[Blue18]

"Peyton is still an all-pro QB who deserves serious hall of fame consideration."

You're kidding right? Soon as he hang it up he's going to the HOF 5 years from then. Bwahahahaha @ considering him.

The only reason TB has rings is because he had a defense. He cannot lead a team to the SB by himself, but ESPN would have you think otherwise. TB wouldn't be considered a great without those rings. I guess Dan Marino isn't a great QB is because he played in tropical Miami.

You don't know football.

 

[He Ban Me]

As of the CHFF article, just 43% of Peyton's games had been played outdoors.

Once Peyton leaves the security of the dome, his passer rating goes down by 16 points.

16 points is the difference between Joe Montana and Doug Flutie.

Lest anybody think that this phenomenon is a result of home field advantage, remember that Tom Brady's passer rating INCREASES by 16.5 points when he goes on the road and plays in a dome versus playing outdoors (most of those games being at home).

You can not consider ANY of Peyton's numbers without acknowledging that they are massively inflated by the fact that he has played four out of every seven games in a QB friendly dome.

Even without the dome advantage, Peyton is still an all-pro QB who deserves serious hall of fame consideration. But he would hold none of the passing records that he holds now (and few of the career records that he will eventually get).

Without the dome advantage, nobody would even consider comparing him to all time greats like Joe Montana, Dan Marino or Tom Brady.

Bunk.
He has destroyed you twice on your own field in Nov. took care of Denver last year, and in OT in the snow a few seasons ago. Been to Soldier Field and won in the Windy City, and took Favre to the wood shed. You know not of what you speak.

 

[ATippett56]

Bunk.
He has destroyed you twice on your own field in Nov.

A seven point victory last season is hardly termed destruction. Once again, you belittle the New England Patriots organization while talking out of your ass.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28984&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG9

 

[He Ban Me]

A seven point victory last season is hardly termed destruction. Once again, you belittle the New England Patriots organization while talking out of your ass.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28984&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG9

There were Pats fans on Indy board last year who actually called the game a 7 point blowout. And yeah, he DID destroy you, for 300+, and 5 pass plays of 29+ yards.

 

[solman]

"Peyton is still an all-pro QB who deserves serious hall of fame consideration."

You're kidding right? Soon as he hang it up he's going to the HOF 5 years from then. Bwahahahaha @ considering him.

The only reason TB has rings is because he had a defense. He cannot lead a team to the SB by himself, but ESPN would have you think otherwise. TB wouldn't be considered a great without those rings. I guess Dan Marino isn't a great QB is because he played in tropical Miami.

You don't know football.

Your whining notwithstanding, the numbers don't lie. Peyton Manning has not played like a HOF QB when he has played outdoors.

Peyton Manning has also played incredibly poorly in the Colt's playoff losses while he has been QB. Its not a lack of defense that caused those losses, its his inability to play the big game, ESPECIALLY when its outdoors.

As far as Tom Brady's defense, Tom isn't throwing to his defense or his owner or his coach. Tom has been throwing to his receivers. Throughout his career those receivers have been DRAMATICALLY worse than Peyton's receivers. Which has a larger impact on passer rating: a great defense, or having to throw to Caldwell and Gaffney?

For the record, I never said that Peyton isn't a lock for the HOF. I simply said that without the dome advantage, Peyton would NOT be a lock for the HOF (but would probably get in eventually). HOF voters seldom penalize QBs for throwing to HOF receivers or playing in a dome. They just care about the stats and records.

 

[Blue18]

Your whining notwithstanding, the numbers don't lie. Peyton Manning has not played like a HOF QB when he has played outdoors.

Peyton Manning has also played incredibly poorly in the Colt's playoff losses while he has been QB. Its not a lack of defense that caused those losses, its his inability to play the big game, ESPECIALLY when its outdoors.

As far as Tom Brady's defense, Tom isn't throwing to his defense or his owner or his coach. Tom has been throwing to his receivers. Throughout his career those receivers have been DRAMATICALLY worse than Peyton's receivers. Which has a larger impact on passer rating: a great defense, or having to throw to Caldwell and Gaffney?

For the record, I never said that Peyton isn't a lock for the HOF. I simply said that without the dome advantage, Peyton would NOT be a lock for the HOF (but would probably get in eventually). HOF voters seldom penalize QBs for throwing to HOF receivers or playing in a dome. They just care about the stats and records.

So it's Peyton's fault for having Marvin as a teammate? Marvin('96) was drafted before Peyton('98) so it's not his fault for having Marvin on the team. I keep hearing Manning has always had great receivers. Name one besides Marvin. I dare you.

As a Colts fan i can remember the days when Marvin was all we had. We had a guy named E.G. Green as our #2 for a number of years. Peyton still has great numbers. We always had a great reciever but not great receivers for all of Peyton's years here. i know now that i busted you on your lack of knowledge you're going to fall back on the Dome argument.

Blame Peyton cause he plays in a dome, but remember this. Domes don't give up TD's defenses do.

 

[solman]

Bunk.
He has destroyed you twice on your own field in Nov. took care of Denver last year, and in OT in the snow a few seasons ago. Been to Soldier Field and won in the Windy City, and took Favre to the wood shed. You know not of what you speak.

Every QB that lasts any time in this league has great games. Doug Flutie once posted a perfect passer rating with the Bills. This does not make him a HOF lock.

Over the course of Peyton's first 62 games outdoors he compiled an 86 passer rating.

These games include many great performances, and many dreadful performances.

When you average the two together, you have an 86 rating QB outside of the dome.

As BB might say, he is what he is. Peyton's final career non-dome numbers are entirely in his hands (And Harrison's hands and Clark's hands and Wayne's hands and Gonzalez's hands, etc.).

 

[He Ban Me]

Every QB that lasts any time in this league has great games. Doug Flutie once posted a perfect passer rating with the Bills. This does not make him a HOF lock.

Over the course of Peyton's first 62 games outdoors he compiled an 86 passer rating.

These games include many great performances, and many dreadful performances.

When you average the two together, you have an 86 rating QB outside of the dome.

As BB might say, he is what he is. Peyton's final career non-dome numbers are entirely in his hands (And Harrison's hands and Clark's hands and Wayne's hands and Gonzalez's hands, etc.).

He started as a rookie and threw 26 picks. We all realize this. IMO, his rating has more to do with the types of defenses he faces, the fact that he has been pressed into action, with the offense squarely on his shoulders. The more you are asked to pass, the more trouble you generally find yourself in. Some of the best days for QB's are days like today, when TB passes, what, 25 times?? And your counting that as an outdoor game, but you want to count reliant as an indoor game. Manning can carve up poor defenses just as well as TB can. Doesn't matter, home or road. Out of curiosity, will it be cold next Sunday in Foxboro? Rainy? Snowy? Just wondering what type of hellacious weather TB can expect at this juncture, 1/2 way through the season??

 

[ATippett56]

There were Pats fans on Indy board last year who actually called the game a 7 point blowout. And yeah, he DID destroy you, for 300+, and 5 pass plays of 29+ yards.

Not as bad as that 17 point blowout in Foxboro during the 2004 AFC Divisional Playoff in which the New England Patriots offense rushed for over 200 yards against that overrated Colts defense. Meanwhile, Peyton and Colts offense only managed only 3 points.

THREE POINTS!

 

[Blue18]

Not as bad as that 17 point blowout in Foxboro during the 2004 AFC Divisional Playoff in which the New England Patriots offense rushed for over 200 yards against that overrated Colts defense. Meanwhile, Peyton and Colts offense only managed only 3 points.

THREE POINTS!

How many points did the Colts score last year? Talk about a overrated defense who gives up a 21-3 halftime lead in the playoffs?

 

[He Ban Me]

Not as bad as that 17 point blowout in Foxboro during the 2004 AFC Divisional Playoff in which the New England Patriots offense rushed for over 200 yards against that overrated Colts defense. Meanwhile, Peyton and Colts offense only managed only 3 points.

THREE POINTS!

Yawn

Hey Tiptoe, how's come Denver is up 21-7 on that vaunted Steeler team?? I think Big Ben has been sacked more tonight than PM has been all year? AND, NO CHAMP BAILEY. WTF No Jevon either. WOW! And they got sheeled by our piss poor team. Who'da thunk it?

 

[solman]

He started as a rookie and threw 26 picks. We all realize this. IMO, his rating has more to do with the types of defenses he faces, the fact that he has been pressed into action, with the offense squarely on his shoulders. The more you are asked to pass, the more trouble you generally find yourself in. Some of the best days for QB's are days like today, when TB passes, what, 25 times??

TB didn't look too bad last week, when he passed 46 times.

And your counting that as an outdoor game, but you want to count reliant as an indoor game. Manning can carve up poor defenses just as well as TB can. Doesn't matter, home or road. Out of curiosity, will it be cold next Sunday in Foxboro? Rainy? Snowy? Just wondering what type of hellacious weather TB can expect at this juncture, 1/2 way through the season??

I am saying that for any plausible definition of indoor vs. outdoor games:

1. QBs playing indoors have MUCH better statistics.
2. Peyton has had MUCH better numbers when playing indoors.
3. Brady has had MUCH better numbers when playing indoors.
4. Without the benefit of his indoor numbers, Peyton Manning is not a lock for the HOF.

I used CHFF's definition because they did the leg work for me. If you have another definition which produces different results, lets see it.


Last week TB