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Revisiting the Marcus Cannon draft pick

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ctpatsfan77, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While many folks have thought that Cannon would be an ideal OG, the Patriots seem to feel differently.

    He got his first career start at RT, and has yet to play a single down at G.

    Right now, I'm thinking that the Patriots taking Cannon was a brilliant move on their part: they get a guy with first/second round talent in the fifth round.

    If Vollmer leaves in FA (e.g., someone pays him $$$$ to play LT), the Pats have a replacement.

    If Vollmer stays, then they've got an outstanding third tackle for $ instead of $$$$ for two more years.

    Not every gamble the Pats take pays off (see: Salas, Greg), but it's nice to know that the Patriots can make smart ones like this (and Alfonzo Dennard).
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why do you think that just because the Pats have played Cannon at RT that they don't feel he can play guard?

    As BB commented yesterday re Markus Zusevics:

    Pats prepping Zusevics for duty if needed - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    That doesn't sound like BB doesn't think Cannon could play inside. Rather, it sounds like he thinks he's versatile to play both outside and inside, and he's used him where he currently has the greater need. The Pats value players with positional versatility, and can switch positoins based on need (see McCourty, Devin).

    Whether Cannon stays at RT or moves inside probably depends on whether Vollmer is extended and how the draft falls. Extend Vollmer and get someone liek Kyle Long in the draft, and Cannon could move inside to guard. But if Vollmer leaves, then Cannon is likely to stay outside. But I think it's more a question of team need than of Cannon's ability to play either position.
  3. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    If Vollmer leaves shouldn't even be a thought...he has been our Best Player along our OL when healthy...no knock on Nate Solder. That said the Jets is hardly a measuring stick for Marcus Cannon at Tackle...I would like to see him aganist a Cameron Wake or against DL's like the 49ers and Texans before i annoint him. I like Cannon but in the preseason and early in the year, Speed Rushers owned him. On Vollmer you just cannot Teach what he already have Great Size with Good feet to boot...i am sure his peers thinks very highly of him as should BB and Brady.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  4. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    5th rd pick.

    low risk.

    good solid player. hope he continues to get better.

    He's a bit to go to be considered a Vollmer replacement yet.
  5. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Week 16 last year. Cannon allowed one QB hit to Wake, plus a sack that was caused more by interior pressure.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Guess you didn't watch the Miami game last year when Cannon started at RT with Solder at LT and they held Wake in check.
  7. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    Note that BB never says that he's had a "Marcus Cannon type of discussion". He just references that there has been one. Perhaps he's referencing the pundits and drafniks. Until Cannon actually plays a snap at OG, you have to think the Pats have him pegged as a tackle. Did Cannon even play at OG in pre-season at any time?
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see the need to think that at all. The Pats have had a surplus of guards compared to tackles. Logan Mankins had to play LT at times last season. Nick McDonald had to play tackle at times this pre-season. Robert Gallery played both tackle and guard at times in the pre-season. They've had to move guys who were pegged as guards to fill in at tackle because of depth - not the other way around. I think that the Pats have played Cannon at tackle because of the need for depth at that position, not because they don't think he can play guard.
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Regarding those preseason games and practices........

    They owned Solder too and Vollmer was in bed.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  10. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    :confused:
    Knowing he going to start again this Sunday...didn't i say i love Marcus Cannon at RT?:confused::D:cool:
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  11. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #15 Jersey

    I loved Cannon coming out of college, I thought he was a late 1st round talent before the cancer diagnosis. I had him listed as our 2nd round pick in our draft contest. Fortunately for Marcus and the Patriots they discovered the cancer at the Combine. This dropped Cannon off a lot of NFL Teams draft boards and others dropped him very low. The Patriots could afford to take the gamble on Cannon and now they are seeing the fruits of that gamble. In a way Alfonzo Dennard, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Ryan Mallett and Brandon Tate were similar Risk / Reward situations. It appears that Tate is the only one that didn't work out.
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    with the elevation of the pats running game, a guy like cannon at RT gives opponents something to think about and it becomes about alot more than just pass pro. the notion of the running game forces the defense to hesitate on the pass rush......

    cannon is a fantastic player and can literally play 4 spots on the line.

    but it all comes back to one guy.......scar

    the OL coach is more important than any 1 or 2 OL players
  13. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Not a home run but most 5th rounders washout so I grade a C+ or B-
  14. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Interestingly all those players played tackle at the college level. I would expect most NFL linemen played tackle at the college level. What I'm trying to say here is that what you're saying is that the Pats have a surplus of offensive tackles who can't play tackle at an NFL level. As BB might say, that's true of a lot of teams.

    I think the Pats have played Cannon at tackle because if you have a guy who can play tackle you play him there, unless you have a logjam at that position and/or a loose screen door elsewhere on the line.

    Might be as important than the whole line together. Consider who the Pats just used to steamroll the Jets:

    Code:
    Solder - Thomas - Wendell - Connolly/McDonald - Cannon
    Here's the would-be starting offensive line from 2011:

    Code:
    Light - Mankins - Koppen - Waters - Vollmer*
    *Solder started @Miami due to injury
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  15. DarthHoodie

    DarthHoodie Rookie

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    The value The Pats have gotten out of this year's line is incredible. I digged to see a few team's lines and where they were found, here are the results:

    Current O-lines:
    position/name/round selected

    Pats
    LT Solder 1st
    LG Thomas 6th
    C Wendell UFA
    RG Connolly UFA
    RT Cannon 5th

    Texans
    LT Brown 1st
    LG Smith 3rd
    C Myers 6th
    RG Jones 4th
    RT Newton 7th

    49ers
    LT Staley 1st
    LG Iupati 1st
    C Goodwin 5th
    RG Boone UFA
    RT Davis 1st

    Jaguars
    LT Monroe 1st
    LG Britton 2nd
    C Meester 2nd
    RG Nwaneri 5th
    RT Bradfield UFA

    Chiefs
    LT Albert 1st
    LG Allen 2nd
    C Mattison UFA
    RG Hochstein 5th
    RT Winston 3rd

    Dolphins
    LT Long 1st
    LG Incognito 3rd
    C Pouncey 1st
    RG Jerry 3rd
    RT Martin 2nd
  16. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    I think the Pats should try to lock Vollmer up for several more years. Dude is playing great football and is still young.
  17. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    People thinking Cannon is a guard are just out thinking themselves. Most guards in the NFL were tackles in college. Look no further than our own Logan Mankins. Of course Cannon could play Guard as well. But he has the ability to play tackle which is a more premium position.
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I agree. All this talk about Cannon supplanting Seabass is way too premature.

    However Seabass is not that young and with is injury history it does complicate things a bit. The hope is that the team and he can work out a contract that both parties are comfortable with.
  19. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Rookie

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    I love Vollmer and would wish for the Pats to re-sign him and keep him for many more years but it seems like he is ALWAYS hurt....If it's not one thing then it's another....I am just not sold that he will be worth the money if he plays less than 10 games in season.....If he can stay healthy then I say go for it but he hasn't shown that he can yet.....I would say try to re-sign him with reasonable $ and or put an injury clause in his contract so it wouldn't be as hard to swallow if he gets hurt....
  20. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    Nuts. If that were true, that a player of NFL starting caliber at one, if not two positions were a just a little above average for a 5th round draft pick, there would be no veterans left in the league.
  21. lamafist

    lamafist Rookie

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    Like everyone here, I love the way Vollmer's been playing this year, but I think you can pretty much bank on him being gone next season. A team with a viable, let alone promising, replacement for a position will pretty much always be outbid by a team with serious need there, and there are plenty of teams without a single tackle worth his salt.

    Vollmer's likely chronic back problems will further widen the gap because a team with desperate need for a tackle is much more likely to take the risk of offering a big contract to a guy with health concerns.
  22. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Maybe, I see him as a below average starter but an pretty good backup.
  23. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  24. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    How can you grade based on just one start? I'd like to see Cannon get more playing time before handing out a grade. Looks like because of the injury bug, he will get his chances to shine.

    Like the Cannon pick! Really wish we could have a do-over on the Dowling pick however!
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  25. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    C'mon VJC. You've seen everything you need to see after one start. ;)
  26. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    You obviously did not get the memo from the media. One good game, two good games tops! is all you need to be great. :D
  27. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I see both the Cannon and Dennard picks as having incredible value obviously in the late rounds, but I also see something else...other teams who seemed to immediately take them off their boards due to an overreaction or lack of sufficient background information.

    I am not meaning to sound insensitive by saying this but I didn't see either Cannon's issue or Dennard's issue as being serious enough NOT to warrant the gamble of a late round pick, due to the extremely high rate of success for Cannon's specific medical issue, and Dennard's first time offense in a bar fight.

    Neither situation should have been enough to take them off of their boards altogether (well, Cannon through round 5) and that seems to be what a lot of teams did. Kudos for Belichick and his scouting staff on these two picks.

    It also goes to show that lower round picks can be just as effective, even if they don't get all of the media hype and attn that the "top 100" players do. I just wish that Pryor's story could have turned out better too.
  28. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Good point. It is the overreaction that makes them value picks.
    I don't know anything about Dennard's issue - it was only a bar fight? A young guy who is a bit too well known as compared to the other guys in the bar getting into a fight? That seems a severe overreaction to drop him that many rounds in the draft.....but also a thing of beauty if he pans out for us :D
  29. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The overreaction to Dennard's incident was influenced by (1) the fact that he threw a punch at a cop, with charges being filed, and (2) the fact that it occurred the weekend before the draft. If it had occurred earlier more teams would have had time to do their homework on the kid. But a lot just dropped him altogether. The Pats supposedly looked into the incident and Dennard's background carefully - it was a calculated risk, like most of their moves.
  30. SEA_Pat

    SEA_Pat Rookie

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    There's another thing at play as well - the Patriots stockpile picks so that they can take gambles like this, whereas the cost is higher for other teams that only have a limited number of picks to spend. All the trading down on draft day that drives everyone crazy may have some benefits after all. Who knew?
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