Reiss: Patriots Move Away from 3-WR Shot Gun Base in Atlanta Game

[BionicPatriot]

No team cares that our shot gun draw play is effective. They know we pass 85% out of the shot gun. They are willing to give us the 6 ypc out of this draw, because they know we get away from the run when we use shot gun a lot.

The Jets may have blitzed heavily and proved that we still can't stop an 07 Giants style defense with shot gun, but the Bills had a different, less blitz-happy team and still nearly beat us when we primarily used shot gun.

It's pretty silly to say that the only solution to the blitz is Welker out of shot gun. Welker was healthy and on the team when the offense got stuffed by the Giants in 2007.

He's not saying it's the only answer, rather he's saying it's just an easy, comfortable way for Brady. Look I know everyone here loves to look at things in hind sight, but just because for one game we didn't use a lot of shot gun doesn't mean it's gone or not working. Again, if the OL picks up its blocks against the Jets suddenly that game plan doesn't look so stupid. the point is, Brady is nearly unstoppable out of the shot gun formation.

When he's on, it's straight up impossible to stop us if the line holds up. I love the shot gun, but I do agree with you they need to mix it up more. But we cannot down play the effectiveness of the shot gun formation with this team. Like you said, a lot of teams do expect us to pass it all day, which is pretty much what Abraham was trying to say. So yes, we need balance.

But will we scrap what has always worked? I doubt it.

 

[maverick4]

He's not saying it's the only answer, rather he's saying it's just an easy, comfortable way for Brady.

Oh, I completely agree with you that it's easiest for Brady, and also easiest for our new coordinator, to just use the same pass happy shot gun formation, over and over.

It isn't best for our team this season, however.

There's no saying Brady will ever get back to his usual self for this particular season, and he isn't playing well against the blitz or against teams which tee off when we are in shot gun.

We HAVE 4 great running backs, and a physical O-line to have a dominant running game. There is no need to try to pad Brady's stats. Winning is the most important thing. Trying to pad Brady's stats is why our red zone was so horrible after easily marching down the field. We would have scored 40+ points if we just stuck with the running game instead of try to pass from the 5 yard line in shot gun.

 

[lamafist]

No team cares that our shot gun draw play is effective. They know we pass 85% out of the shot gun. They are willing to give us the 6 ypc out of this draw, because they know we get away from the run when we use shot gun a lot.

The Jets may have blitzed heavily and proved that we still can't stop an 07 Giants style defense with shot gun, but the Bills had a different, less blitz-happy team and still nearly beat us when we primarily used shot gun.

It's pretty silly to say that the only solution to the blitz is Welker out of shot gun. Welker was healthy and on the team when the offense got stuffed by the Giants in 2007.

"Proved we still can't stop an 07 Giants style defense?"

Give me a break. The Pats played 19 games in '07, relied heavily on the shotgun, spread formation in almost all of them, won 18 of those games and set some offensive records, including a game in which they hung 38 points on the same '07 Giants whose style defense was apparently our kryptonite.

Reason dictates that when something works 18 out of 19 times, you might want to look for something else to blame that 19th time on. Compared to the full season, that one game is a very small sample.

Now, as BionicPatriot pointed out, I never said that the shotgun formation was the only way to beat a blitz, but when the Pats' offense is clicking, all evidence suggests that it's the most dangerous.

Heck, the evidence for this goes beyond just the Pats -- over the past decade, the percentage of snaps QBs are taking out of shotgun is steadily rising, as is the ratio of pass plays called vs run plays. This is just the way that NFL offenses are evolving, as coaches + coordinators are starting to go away from the elements of offense that aren't as effective as they used to be, and remain prevalent out of a fear of breaking from tradition.

 

[SVN]

its week to week like always. i wont be surprised to see the 3WR up tempo thing next week. asbb said today

Q: Your offense couldn't be more different than it was last week – no-huddle to two tight ends and two backs on the line. How do you get the team to make that kind of adjustment?

BB: You've seen us all year. We've been in all versions of that from the start of training camp. We've had tight end groupings, receiver groupings and all that. It's more of a game-planning, sometimes personnel matchup, or maybe how you want to attack their defense, or what you think gives you the better chance to be successful. I think we could be in any of those like we were yesterday from time to time and we could be more in one and less in another, depending on the situation or by game plan.

Q: Is that normal to be able to look so different week to week?

BB: I think if you've watched us play, I think you've seen that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

its week to week like always. i wont be surprised to see the 3WR up tempo thing next week. asbb said today

Good God. BB must have been ready to smite the guy who asked that last question. . . .

 

[maverick4]

Now, as BionicPatriot pointed out, I never said that the shotgun formation was the only way to beat a blitz, but when the Pats' offense is clicking, all evidence suggests that it's the most dangerous.

This is thrown out the window considering:

- At the peak of Brady, Moss, Welker, etc, this style of offense/scheme STILL lost against an inferior Giants team.

- In 2009, Brady is clearly not close to his peak form, Welker is hurt, and the rest of the catching core has issues.

 

[skinnydog]

I completely agree. There are some here who would argue shot gun protects Brady more and gives him more time and less hits on him, but I would argue it isn't the case against a defense with a decent pass rush.

Also, defenders play run and pass differently. If they even think you have a chance of running, like we do when Brady is under center, they have gap responsibilities and need to make sure they are doing that properly before they can sprint upfield and try to get a sack.

I think this pretty much nails it. In the shotgun, at the snap of the ball, the defense knows a pass is coming and the rushers rush and everyone else picks up their coverage responsibilities. No team is worried that Faulk will run more that a half dozen times. That is, they are immediatley in pass defense.

With Brady under center, they have to play both the pass and the run until its clear which one it is. Even though that's only a half of second to second, it makes a difference.

What I don't understand at all is why they would have brady under center until they hit red zone and them switch to the shot gun. Why take away the threat of the run inside the 20??? With the field shortened, why not make the defense play run first and pass second.