Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hits

[Ring 6]

By putting his arms out and taking him down. That was as blatant a cheap shot as they get, he made no effort to tackle him only to take his knee out, it was bullsh.t. I really hope he gets the same treatment someday. POS. They either do something about the cheapshots or every really good skill player in the league is going to be watching from their hospital beds.

Come on. This is getting ridiculous.
This is football, it is a violent sport. His job is to bring down Gronk, not to ponder where the safest place to hit him is. Tacklers are not moving in slow motion, lining up a player, and choosing a 2 inch zone to hit in. They are doing whatever they can to bring the player down. Going low was not only not a cheap shot, but it was the right way for Ward to do his job. The results suck, but if you don't like that tackle, and want it eliminated, we need to change the game to 2 hand touch.

 

[Ivan]

You cannot have ever played football if you are saying it was an illegal hit because he should have aimed 6 inches higher.

Disagree completely, he made no attempt to tackle him, only to dive at his knee. As I said before i hope an OL returns the favor and blows his knee out for the long term. They won't have any choice, they can't hit him high.

 

[DaBruinz]

As Patriot fans this season, I think it's fair to say that we all despise injuries. But I am curious how you would prove intent in situations like that which, if you're planning on permanent suspensions, you would absolutely have to do (and probably in a court of law).

Intent is pretty clear. You aim at the knees like Ward did. If referees in the NHL can see intent when it comes to knee on knee contact, then it shouldn't be hard for NFL referees to see intent on tackling at a person's knees.

The knee is one of the most fragile joints in the body and getting hit there has ended people's careers. The NFL put in rules about going at a QBs knees, about blindsiding linemen's knees, etc. Why should receivers be different regarding hits to their knees?

BTW, when I think of Intent to injure, I think of guy's like Suh and Haynesworth and the despicable things they've done. And yes, I consider Ward's hit on Gronkowski despicable because the intent was clear. Take out his knees.

 

[Ring 6]

I have never experienced an angle I could not wrap up the waist. The angle will change where you must place your feet and how you use your legs, but you can always attack the waist. If you can lunge at and hit the knee with your shoulder pad you can certainly lunge at the waist.

Then you haven't played tackle football.

 

[Ivan]

Come on. This is getting ridiculous.
This is football, it is a violent sport. His job is to bring down Gronk, not to ponder where the safest place to hit him is. Tacklers are not moving in slow motion, lining up a player, and choosing a 2 inch zone to hit in. They are doing whatever they can to bring the player down. Going low was not only not a cheap shot, but it was the right way for Ward to do his job. The results suck, but if you don't like that tackle, and want it eliminated, we need to change the game to 2 hand touch.

That wasn't a tackle, that was a pure cheapshot. he went after his only, and he got it and blew it up. he's a scumbag, just like Meriweather and I hope both of them end up out of football.

And yes, i am seriously pissed about it.

 

[Ring 6]

Disagree completely, he made no attempt to tackle him, only to dive at his knee.

That is making a tackle.

As I said before i hope an OL returns the favor and blows his knee out for the long term. They won't have any choice, they can't hit him high.

That is ridiculous. Injuries happen, we don't have to be babies about it.

 

[Cookenbauer]

Come on. This is getting ridiculous.
This is football, it is a violent sport. His job is to bring down Gronk, not to ponder where the safest place to hit him is. Tacklers are not moving in slow motion, lining up a player, and choosing a 2 inch zone to hit in. They are doing whatever they can to bring the player down. Going low was not only not a cheap shot, but it was the right way for Ward to do his job. The results suck, but if you don't like that tackle, and want it eliminated, we need to change the game to 2 hand touch.

100 percent correct. It's a violent collision sport. These ideas of running and hitting as hard as you can..but only in a manner that is deemed safe is nonsensical and defies logic

 

[Ring 6]

That wasn't a tackle, that was a pure cheapshot. he went after his only, and he got it and blew it up. he's a scumbag, just like Meriweather and I hope both of them end up out of football.

And yes, i am seriously pissed about it.

You are letting your anger cloud your judgment.
I don't mean this as a slam, but have you played football, particularly defense at a level beyond peewee.
Wards sole thought in his mind is stopping the play. Everything he does is instinctual. He sees Gronk catch the ball, and instinctually does what is the most effective way to make the tackle.

 

[manxman2601]

Intent is pretty clear. You aim at the knees like Ward did. If referees in the NHL can see intent when it comes to knee on knee contact, then it shouldn't be hard for NFL referees to see intent on tackling at a person's knees.

The knee is one of the most fragile joints in the body and getting hit there has ended people's careers. The NFL put in rules about going at a QBs knees, about blindsiding linemen's knees, etc. Why should receivers be different regarding hits to their knees?

BTW, when I think of Intent to injure, I think of guy's like Suh and Haynesworth and the despicable things they've done. And yes, I consider Ward's hit on Gronkowski despicable because the intent was clear. Take out his knees.

More than half of Ward's body hit Gronk in the thigh. How are you going to prove he didn't target the thigh? Or are you going to say that anything below the waist is out of bounds? If so, I'm running hunched over and no-one can tackle me.

 

[Ring 6]

100 percent correct. It's a violent collision sport. These ideas of running and hitting as hard as you can..but only in a manner that is deemed safe is nonsensical and defies logic

Exactly because if you don't hit as hard as you can, the other guy will.

 

[DaBruinz]

Then having played rugby and tackled guys much bigger than myself, I would say you were taught very badly. Firstly you can't rely on other players to to "finish him off" and secondly, a player can be 5'0 or 6'11", if he doesn't have his legs under him, he's not going anywhere.

Then I would say you were the one taught badly because situational awareness was always a priority. Knowing where my teammates were on the field so I wouldn't run into them in trying to make the tackle and backing them up and such.

Hitting a player in his knees was punishable by getting kicked off the team. Why? Because the point is to win cleanly. Not to win by hurting the other team.

I've seen plenty of "small guys" take down bigger/taller men by wrapping them up and just flat out dropping them. I've seen "smaller guys" hit the bigger guys in the waist area and the bigger guy folds like an accordion because of the momentum the smaller guy built up. So, this idea that the only way to take guys out is to hit them in their knees just doesn't fly with me.

 

[Ring 6]

More than half of Ward's body hit Gronk in the thigh. How are you going to prove he didn't target the thigh? Or are you going to say that anything below the waist is out of bounds? If so, I'm running hunched over and no-one can tackle me.

Its simple, a Patriot was injure so clearly the guy is Charlie Manson who has spent his life waiting for the moment to maim Rob Gronkowski.

 

[Cookenbauer]

That wasn't a tackle, that was a pure cheapshot. he went after his only, and he got it and blew it up. he's a scumbag, just like Meriweather and I hope both of them end up out of football.

And yes, i am seriously pissed about it.

You are proving that you are clueless on how fast the speed of the game is. It's hard enough for ward to be in the position to even make a play. How many times does gronk run a great route and no one is near him?

The idea that ward has enough time to size him up and intentionally aim at his knees is simply wrong. hes trying to hit a moving target that is 70 pounds heavier than him. Insanely hard to do.

 

[Ivan]

You are letting your anger cloud your judgment.
I don't mean this as a slam, but have you played football, particularly defense at a level beyond peewee.
Wards sole thought in his mind is stopping the play. Everything he does is instinctual. He sees Gronk catch the ball, and instinctually does what is the most effective way to make the tackle.

I am sure they said the same thing when they banned the clothesline, and stopped defenders from picking up QB's and slamming them on their head. You consider diving at a player's knee acceptable, i consider a cheapshot. That's my take and nothing is going to change it. It's a shame the Patriots didn't respond in kind and end his season.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Then you haven't played tackle football.

Sorry Andy but this is nothing more than an appeal to authority with yourself as that authority, I've played both football and rugby and never needed to launch myself at someone's head like Bang-clock nor did I pull a Ward.

In fact, none of the guys I played with/against did that, but then again on my team we spent a bunch of time on tackling and other fundamental drills, not sure how much guys today practice tackling, or care to.

 

[Ring 6]

Then I would say you were the one taught badly because situational awareness was always a priority. Knowing where my teammates were on the field so I wouldn't run into them in trying to make the tackle and backing them up and such.

Dude, you are either playing or you never played football above peewee.
NO defensive coach EVER would tell you to approach a ball carrier in the open field by surveying where your teammates were, and finding a 6 inch target zone and going nice and slow.

Hitting a player in his knees was punishable by getting kicked off the team. Why? Because the point is to win cleanly. Not to win by hurting the other team.

You cannot make tackles consistently without making some hits in the knee area. No real coach ever had a rule like this.

I've seen plenty of "small guys" take down bigger/taller men by wrapping them up and just flat out dropping them. I've seen "smaller guys" hit the bigger guys in the waist area and the bigger guy folds like an accordion because of the momentum the smaller guy built up. So, this idea that the only way to take guys out is to hit them in their knees just doesn't fly with me.

What is silly is thinking that the only way for a 200 lb S to tackle a 6'7 260 lb TE is to make a form tackle. And even if so, Ward did not buld up momentum such as you describe, because he couldn't. What is your solution? Miss the tackle?

 

[DaBruinz]

More than half of Ward's body hit Gronk in the thigh. How are you going to prove he didn't target the thigh? Or are you going to say that anything below the waist is out of bounds? If so, I'm running hunched over and no-one can tackle me.

Sorry, Manx, but the replay shows the initial hit being Ward's shoulder on Gronk's knee. What happens after that is incidental.

Gronk wasn't hunched over when Ward hit him. So this idea that there was only a small target is BS. In fact, at the 15 second mark of the Highlights on NFL.com you can see, clear as day, that Ward's shoulder is what is connecting with Gronk's KNEE (not thigh, knee). everything else is the momentum of Gronk going over the top of Ward.

 

[manxman2601]

Perhaps Ward just watches tape

Gronk breaks a lot of tackles against the dolphins - YouTube

I'm all for Gronk being allowed an unfair advantage where no-one is allowed to tackle him below the waist but somehow I don't think the rest of the NFL will be that keen.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have never experienced an angle I could not wrap up the waist. The angle will change where you must place your feet and how you use your legs, but you can always attack the waist. If you can lunge at and hit the knee with your shoulder pad you can certainly lunge at the waist.

Having to make tackles without getting the opponent's waist happens all the time, and not just at the NFL level.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry Andy but this is nothing more than an appeal to authority with yourself as that authority, I've played both football and rugby and never needed to launch myself at someone's head like Bang-clock nor did I pull a Ward.

No it is common sense. Are you agreeing with the comment that was a response to? That you were never in a position where you couldn't make a textbook form tackle? That is ludicrous.
I guarantee that if you played any amount of football you hit players you were trying to tackle in the thigh with your shoulder pads, just like Ward did.

In fact, none of the guys I played with/against did that, but then again on my team we spent a bunch of time on tackling and other fundamental drills, not sure how much guys today practice tackling, or care to.

If you played on a team where no one attempted to make a tackle where they couldn't get their head across and be 100% certain the hit was above the waist and below the shoulders, you lost a lot of games.

Its not really even an opinion, its the reality of the speed of the game and the fact that a defender is trying to get whatever piece they can get of a ballcarrier.