OT: Sports Fans without Cable

[Mark.]

Yeah, I'm pretty well resigned to using an outdoor antenna. The indoor ones I tried just won't cut it. I not only have distance to deal with, but also intervening tall tree lines, and ridges/hills between myself and the transmitter locations.

If you're looking into an external antenna, we went with Mohu Sky when we cut the cord a couple of years ago. We live in an area where reception is crappy too-hills, trees, etc. Plus we are a long distance from local stations. Ah, the perks of living in Maine. Anyway, we have been happy with the Mohu Sky and installation was simple. We get local stations plus Fox so I didn't miss any games with the addition of SlingTv for a few months.

 

[wizwor]

Yeah, I'm pretty well resigned to using an outdoor antenna. The indoor ones I tried just won't cut it. I not only have distance to deal with, but also intervening tall tree lines, and ridges/hills between myself and the transmitter locations.

There are a lot of antenna designs with a lot of characteristics. Unless you are a very LUCKY individual, your best bet is to do some research before purchasing an antenna.

1. Visit TVFool.com and run a report for your address. If you know where you want to put the antenna, and have a GPS or smart phone, use the GPS coordinates right where you will install the antenna. Remember to include AGL which is the distance your antenna will be Above Ground Level.
2. Google each station by call letter, find the wiki for that station, and jump to the section of the page called Digital Channels and note any sub-channels.
3. Make a list of all the stations you would like to watch. Include any redundant stations. For instance, WMUR in Manchester and WCVB in Boston both carry MeTV. Put both on your list.
4. Group these by frequency. 2-6, 7-13, and 14+. You need a different kind of antenna for each group. If you do not, for instance, have channels 2-6 on your list, you can buy a less expensive and smaller antenna. You will be using the REAL channel designation to do this.
5. Order each group by Azimuth (direction). Doesn't matter if you use True or Magnetic, but be consistent.

Now examine your list. If you are lucky, you have all UHF stations nearby and in the same direction. An inexpensive UHF station will get the job done. In my case, the stations are VHF-high and UHF, so I do not need to worry about VHF-low. Most of the UHF stations are due south of me and the VHF-high stations are to the northwest. So I could get all the stations without a rotor, I bought a UHF antenna and a VHF-high antenna, pointed each to the appropriate direction, coupled them with a dual input pre-amplifier, and split the signal for multiple sets using a distribution amplifier. I installed the antenna in the attic, so no need to worry about grounding or weather. I get good reception.

My total spend as listed above (since we are not grounding and using premise wiring) is about $225. I get about 40 channels. Of these, I regularly watch about 30 of these.

 

[Thelonious]

I dropped TV altogether a number of years ago. Click, click, click: nothing but crap and an ever-bigger bill at month's end. For films, etc. I now use Hulu+ and Amazon Prime. For the Patriots (I don't follow any other sports these days), I listen to the games on the radio. If I want to watch them, I can do so subsequently on NFL Game Pass, to which I subscribe, though I hardly ever do so. I am thinking of dropping Game Pass as a result. I very much enjoy listening to the games on radio and don't miss seeing them at all, which is probably atypical (odd, perhaps). I have loved radio all my life. My fondest sports memories are of listening to Bob Wilson do the Bruins games in the 70's. (And what television show has ever been better than Jean Shepherd's radio programs!?) I'm an old b-----d, as you might surmise.

I live waaaaay out in the NH sticks, so an antenna gets me nuthin', which suits me fine.

Anyway, that's what I do, and even with the various subscriptions I mentioned, I'm saving a bundle.

 

[wizwor]

I live waaaaay out in the NH sticks, so an antenna gets me nuthin', which suits me fine.

Very little of New Hampshire gets nuthin'

Anyway, that's what I do, and even with the various subscriptions I mentioned, I'm saving a bundle.

Broadcast television is completely free once you install your hardware.

 

[Bill Lee]

The plus of cutting the cable is getting rid of the bill that goes up all the time. Basically I replaced a triple play bill of $175/month (and increasing) with $50 for Internet and a small bump in my cell phone plan to cover the loss of the land line that I was planning to do anyway. Basically I'm saving two grand a year and not having to pay for tons of crap I don't want. I love it!

The minus is the thing a few have pointed out but none have really adequately addressed: being a hardcore sports fan almost requires a cable subscription, unless you fit that corner case where you really only care about the NFL, and you live in your team's home market, and you can get Fox and CBS over the air. Guess what: that's me! That still leaves out the ESPN Monday Night stuff, but another corner case is that my cell phone is on Verizon so if I really want to watch MNF I can set there with my phone in my hand or in a cradle and watch the game. Other people probably don't fit this corner case.

The big problem is that the sports fans are the ones that are stuck with cable, and given how almost everyone else is leaving, it's the sports fans that are going to have to carry the entire cable industry on their backs going forward. The only other ones I know who are keeping cable plans are older and less tech savvy people who don't want to dork around with Roku/AppleTV/FireTV/etc and are rich enough or numb enough to not care about the cost of cable TV. Going forward it's clear that the sports fans are going to have to carry the load.

One thing I see is that most people oversubscribe on the Internet side. They love reading about all those megabits they're getting, but don't do the basic math: a full HD video stream is only around 5.5 Mbit/sec. My plan started at 6Mbit/sec and that was fine for watching movies all day and all night. They recently bumped it to 10Mbit/sec for the same price and I didn't even notice. Of course if there's more people in the house all streaming HD at the same time that'd change, but really, just take the number of people who'd be consuming content and multiply by 5MBit/sec and don't buy a tier with more than you need, or start off with a low tier and if it doesn't work out, ask the provider if they have a special deal if you upgrade, and usually they do.

As for OTA, my situation is I live in Nashua NH and have found very good results with using antennaweb ( Stations ) which shows that all I really need to do is point an antenna at the towers in Needham and I'm doing fine even being 35 miles away. In reality I have one TV that uses a cheapo sheet of plastic stuck to the wall and it does pretty good, but for the one that's 100% solid I have a larger antenna in my attic with a pre-amp to get over all the crappy coax runs I have in my walls.

I think I'm doing just fine without cable TV. The cost of the TV+amp was paid for in the first two months. I like science/tech/history documentaries the most and I found I'm watching that content on YouTube so much that I don't even subscribe to Netflix any more. I am an Amazon Prime customer so I get that content for free, but haven't been watching much of that either. There are a few 'guilty pleasure' series I got hooked to over the years of watching cable, but since I'm saving $125 a month, I don't mind dropping $20-$30 to occasionally buy a series on Amazon and own it forever.

I did a big comparison of devices a year+ ago and, given my long-term Amazon usage, the FireTV won out for me. If you've already bought a lot of content via Apple then their product is a no-brainer. The Roku is very good for having a large number of apps available, a great cross-product voice-powered search function (something Amazon and Apple won't deliver because they don't want you searching across products!) and a nice user interface.

I dropped TV altogether a number of years ago. Click, click, click: nothing but crap and an ever-bigger bill at month's end. For films, etc. I now use Hulu+ and Amazon Prime. For the Patriots (I don't follow any other sports these days), I listen to the games on the radio. If I want to watch them, I can do so subsequently on NFL Game Pass, to which I subscribe, though I hardly ever do so. I am thinking of dropping Game Pass as a result. I very much enjoy listening to the games on radio and don't miss seeing them at all, which is probably atypical (odd, perhaps). I have loved radio all my life. My fondest sports memories are of listening to Bob Wilson do the Bruins games in the 70's. (And what television show has ever been better than Jean Shepherd's radio programs!?) I'm an old b-----d, as you might surmise.

I live waaaaay out in the NH sticks, so an antenna gets me nuthin', which suits me fine.

Anyway, that's what I do, and even with the various subscriptions I mentioned, I'm saving a bundle.

I'm also in geezer-hood. I grew up in the 70s listening to Jim Woods and Ned Martin calling the Sox games on the radio, and, growing up in CT, good old Neumy calling the Whalers games before he moved to Boston in the 80s!. Also in CT a kid out of college was calling my high school football games. His name was Chris Berman. A year later this new company called ESPN in Bristol gave him a job.

 

[wizwor]

I did a big comparison of devices a year+ ago and, given my long-term Amazon usage, the FireTV won out for me. If you've already bought a lot of content via Apple then their product is a no-brainer. The Roku is very good for having a large number of apps available, a great cross-product voice-powered search function (something Amazon and Apple won't deliver because they don't want you searching across products!) and a nice user interface.

I've had my share of streamers. I cannot recommend a Roku. The company is too small for the number of models they sell and support is horrible. Worse, they update their code for the current models and shoehorn it into the older models. Each software release breaks something -- sometimes something important -- and it takes them a year to figure things out...just in time for the next update.

Typical Roku update cycle

I do like the Fire TV. Not so much their sticks (as I said earlier). The current Apple TV is great except for the remote, lack of Vudu, and the price.

BTW, FTV has more apps than Roku and the games are much better plus you can use real game controllers.

 

[DaBruinz]

I am bookmarking TVFool.com. I will be moving within the next year as my business gets up and running. Due to Tax concessions and State help, the new facility will be about 125 miles from where i live currently.

Because of the move, I will be cutting the cord as well, though I will probably keep a landline due to the fact that there are still so many issues with 911. (See T-Mobile and Dallas)..

I will probably get Amazon Fire TV since I am already a Prime Member. I also currently have Netflix.

One option that people haven't really mentioned with cutting/Trimming the cord is what you do for DVR. I will probably be getting a TiVO, though I may put together a Media PC with a couple of 3 TB drives in it and connect it to the new TV I am getting..

I'd like to hear what people are doing in this regard..

 

[Gwedd]

I am bookmarking TVFool.com. I will be moving within the next year as my business gets up and running. Due to Tax concessions and State help, the new facility will be about 125 miles from where i live currently.

Because of the move, I will be cutting the cord as well, though I will probably keep a landline due to the fact that there are still so many issues with 911. (See T-Mobile and Dallas)..

I will probably get Amazon Fire TV since I am already a Prime Member. I also currently have Netflix.

One option that people haven't really mentioned with cutting/Trimming the cord is what you do for DVR. I will probably be getting a TiVO, though I may put together a Media PC with a couple of 3 TB drives in it and connect it to the new TV I am getting..

I'd like to hear what people are doing in this regard..

I have Amazon Prime and got FireTV last year. great system, installed and up and running in minutes. Lots of free aps available, plus all sorts of free Amazon production stuff. I also have NetFlix, and use the NetFlix ap on FireTV. Their streaming music channels sold it for me, as I can select, for example, the Brooks & Dunn channel, and get hours of country music for background while I am working in the house. At night, I can switch over to the New Age and get all sorts of stuff like ocean surf, streams, or light music for sleeping.

I will be cutting out DirecTV after the NFL Draft. and going with OTA using an outdoor antenna, and adding SlingTV so as to get the stuff I want without the big cable expenses. FireTV also has an ap for Sling, so there's that too.

I'll need to keep my landline because of my health issues, and needing the 911 locater service, and also I have DSL service through my phone line. The price is low enough that I can't complain.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I have cable..but also the Fire stick with Kodi 17.1 installed (any movie...tv show...every single game..any sport you can imagine) ect for free.

If you don't have one and like movies and out of market sports..get it

 

[DaBruinz]

I have cable..but also the Fire stick with Kodi 17.1 installed (any movie...tv show...every single game..any sport you can imagine) ect for free.

If you don't have one and like movies and out of market sports..get it

With Kodi, do you get the new episodes of TV shows immediately as they are shown on Broadcast? I know nothing about it so that is why I'm asking..

 

[bbobbo]

One option that people haven't really mentioned with cutting/Trimming the cord is what you do for DVR. I will probably be getting a TiVO, though I may put together a Media PC with a couple of 3 TB drives in it and connect it to the new TV I am getting..

I'd like to hear what people are doing in this regard..

i have a server running CentOS and MythTV with 2 Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250s and 6x4tb drives in a RAID6 configuration. the Hauppauge cards have two HD tuners each, so i can record 4 OTA streams at once. looks like Hauppauge has a newer card that has four tuners on one card. the antenna i'm using is an AntennasDirect Clearstream 4.

problem is that my server is in the basement and my antenna is on the 3rd floor, which isn't ideal--probably a good 75 feet of coax between the antenna and the tuner. you want to have as short a cable as possible between the antenna and the tuner to reduce signal loss. usually, it's not a problem, but some days when the weather is bad my signal breaks up a lot.

if i had to do it over again i would use a SiliconDust HD tuner which could sit right next to the antenna and send the video stream to my server over a regular networking cable.
.

 

[wizwor]

One option that people haven't really mentioned with cutting/Trimming the cord is what you do for DVR. I will probably be getting a TiVO, though I may put together a Media PC with a couple of 3 TB drives in it and connect it to the new TV I am getting..

I'd like to hear what people are doing in this regard..

Before we left Comcast, I studied our viewing habits. At the time, we had one television with a DVR. The DVR was full of unwatched episodes of Bonnie Hunt and Who Wants to be a Millionaire. I decided we did not need a DVR. It did not take long for me to figure out that the box was more than a digital video recorder. All day long, we were pausing, rewinding, and fast forwarding television. We missed the Electronic Program Guide too.

I played with some of the media PC options (Windows Media and MythTV) before discovering the standalone DTVPal. Within hours of receiving my first, I was shopping for a second. Eventually, we put one on each television.

It's been seven years and all but one of these Pals has gone to the great beyond. These days, we use TiVos and Channel Master DVR+s. Both are very good. We got the DVR+s for $175 each when TiVos were going for $800 with Lifetime. I paid $300 for my first three TiVos and $200 for the last. Generally, I (wife, actually) prefer the TiVo, at the same price, but I would not pay $100 more for a TiVo over a DVR+. The DVR+ can use PSIP data for its program guide, so you do not have to worry that it will ever be orphaned. TiVos rely on a host service for guide data. The DVR+ uses an external USB disk for storage, so there are no moving parts in the box (should be more reliable). You can also hot swap the disks, so there is virtually unlimited storage. The DVR+ has a Sling TV app. The TiVo can share stored files among other TiVos. It has Netflix and Prime apps. For very basic recording, trick play, and EPG, you can get a Brightview class DVR for about $30. I don't know anyone who loves these.

I recommend a DVR+ or a TiVo per television.

 

[wizwor]

if i had to do it over again i would use a SiliconDust HD tuner which could sit right next to the antenna and send the video stream to my server over a regular networking cable..

I'd give Tablo a go for something like this. Less moving parts, flexible storage, and less money to build/support. $240 for a four tuner unit from Walmart plus $70 for a 2t disk and $150 for Lifetime service, then a streamer for each television.

 

[wizwor]

With Kodi, do you get the TV shows immediately as they are shown on Broadcast? I know nothing about it so that is why I'm asking..

Generally, the streams are re-transmitted, but many are close to 'live'. Mostly what you need to know is that these are not legal and tend to be unreliable.

 

[DaBruinz]

i have a server running CentOS and MythTV with 2 Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250s and 6x4tb drives in a RAID6 configuration. the Hauppauge cards have two HD tuners each, so i can record 4 OTA streams at once. looks like Hauppauge has a newer card that has four tuners on one card. the antenna i'm using is an AntennasDirect Clearstream 4.

problem is that my server is in the basement and my antenna is on the 3rd floor, which isn't ideal--probably a good 75 feet of coax between the antenna and the tuner. you want to have as short a cable as possible between the antenna and the tuner to reduce signal loss. usually, it's not a problem, but some days when the weather is bad my signal breaks up a lot.

if i had to do it over again i would use a SiliconDust HD tuner which could sit right next to the antenna and send the video stream to my server over a regular networking cable.
.

Holy damn..
the drives alone are $1200..
The Hauppauge Tuners aren't bad, totalling $160 or so..
Not sure which SiliconDust HD tuner you are referring to, but they seem to have revamped their products..

I'd still need to add the case, mobo, processor, at least 8GB (probably 16GB) of memory, and the video card..

So, I'd probably be looking at $3K easy. An outdoor Antenna might be an issue because I will be right in the storm belt of Texas.. I need to look at the report from TVFool.com and see what my options are..

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd give Tablo a go for something like this. Less moving parts, flexible storage, and less money to build/support. $240 for a four tuner unit from Walmart plus $70 for a 2t disk and $150 for Lifetime service, then a streamer for each television.

With something like Tablo or HDHomeRun or a Home Media PC, the number of tuners only matters for what you recording, not what you are watching, correct?

 

[wizwor]

With something like Tablo or HDHomeRun or a Home Media PC, the number of tuners only matters for what you recording, not what you are watching, correct?

You use a tuner to record and/or watch live. No tuner is required to watch a recording. I haven't owned a TabloTV DVR, but I do own similar Simple TV DVRs and with these two people watching a show which is currently being recorded only use a single tuner since the viewers are technically watching the recording not live tv.

 

[Thelonious]

Very little of New Hampshire gets nuthin'

Broadcast television is completely free once you install your hardware.

I bought a "fringe" digital antenna, put it up, got nothing, just Channel 3 out of Burlington, I think it was, and a bad picture of that. I sent the antenna back whence it came. I also get one quivering bar on my cell phone. I live in western NH, in the dead zone between Dartmouth and Concord. Whether "very little of NH" gets whatever is irrelevant, of course: that's what I get, where I live.

 

[Thelonious]

TV Fool

Yep. If you're looking for fools, TV is definitely the place to go, so if you're looking for TV, I suppose you'd wanna check with the fool. How else can you stay current on Housewives of Flint?

 

[Bill Lee]

Before we left Comcast, I studied our viewing habits. At the time, we had one television with a DVR. The DVR was full of unwatched episodes of Bonnie Hunt and Who Wants to be a Millionaire. I decided we did not need a DVR. It did not take long for me to figure out that the box was more than a digital video recorder. All day long, we were pausing, rewinding, and fast forwarding television. We missed the Electronic Program Guide too.

I played with some of the media PC options (Windows Media and MythTV) before discovering the standalone DTVPal. Within hours of receiving my first, I was shopping for a second. Eventually, we put one on each television.

It's been seven years and all but one of these Pals has gone to the great beyond. These days, we use TiVos and Channel Master DVR+s. Both are very good. We got the DVR+s for $175 each when TiVos were going for $800 with Lifetime. I paid $300 for my first three TiVos and $200 for the last. Generally, I (wife, actually) prefer the TiVo, at the same price, but I would not pay $100 more for a TiVo over a DVR+. The DVR+ can use PSIP data for its program guide, so you do not have to worry that it will ever be orphaned. TiVos rely on a host service for guide data. The DVR+ uses an external USB disk for storage, so there are no moving parts in the box (should be more reliable). You can also hot swap the disks, so there is virtually unlimited storage. The DVR+ has a Sling TV app. The TiVo can share stored files among other TiVos. It has Netflix and Prime apps. For very basic recording, trick play, and EPG, you can get a Brightview class DVR for about $30. I don't know anyone who loves these.

I recommend a DVR+ or a TiVo per television.

Thanks for the good advice you've given in this thread. I agree, for me a DVR is mandatory, even after cutting the cord. In particular I do a lot of time shifting and commercial avoidance during NFL season.

I had a Tivo Series 2 then briefly tried Comcast's attempt at doing a TiVo based DVR (which was horrible) and bought a Series 3 that I've upgraded once and have managed to keep on the air ever since. I told you I'm a geezer!

Eventually the TiVo will crap out so I will be looking at the alternatives. It's encouraging to hear that the competitors are offering good prices especially on the program guide.