OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[luuked]

Fournette, Gronk, Brates, Godwin, Evans, AB, Scotty Miller.

Mantra around here was Weapons, BB the GM, Disrespect. Truth is, that both Brady & Tampa are what I thought they are : good, yet inconsistant. Blaming the Tampa D is just a variation of the excuse making that’s been going on (in Brady’s benefit by hardcore Brady fans) for three years.

Brady is the most amazing player in league history. A winner, a workaholic, dependable, and by FAR the greatest 40+ QB ever. But 41-42-43 year old Brady, as unbelievable as he is, is inconsistant at times and not as good as he was 10 years ago.

All the best skill position players in the world don't make a difference if you have a coaching staff that has no idea how to properly use Brady's strengths.

The leaks from Silver about what Judge said about Brady before the Giants/Bucs game look more and more like solid analysis and not "denigration" like Silver put it, except for the curious part about his pocket movement. And that part is most likely missing some context (i.e. "he has issues moving in the pocket when pressured from the inside" or whatever).



I get that Brady is hyper competitive and most probably believes that he is awesome at everything so he won't be the one going to the coaches and tell them to re-emphasize the playcalling to areas that are more high percentage. But stats like that are insane.

At some point those doofuses on the Bucs sideline have to realize that Brady is too inconsistent at deep shots and throws outside the numbers and it hurts the team. They have so much ****ing talent on offense that they should be able to feast in the MOF and build from there. But then again we have been spoiled with mostly exceptional coaching for 20 years now.

 

[farn]

All the best skill position players in the world don't make a difference if you have a coaching staff that has no idea how to properly use Brady's strengths.

The leaks from Silver about what Judge said about Brady before the Giants/Bucs game look more and more like solid analysis and not "denigration" like Silver put it, except for the curious part about his pocket movement. And that part is most likely missing some context (i.e. "he has issues moving in the pocket when pressured from the inside" or whatever).



I get that Brady is hyper competitive and most probably believes that he is awesome at everything so he won't be the one going to the coaches and tell them to re-emphasize the playcalling to areas that are more high percentage. But stats like that are insane.

At some point those doofuses on the Bucs sideline have to realize that Brady is too inconsistent at deep shots and throws outside the numbers and it hurts the team. They have so much ****ing talent on offense that they should be able to feast in the MOF and build from there. But then again we have been spoiled with mostly exceptional coaching for 20 years now.

But DO they have as much talent as advertised ? Or are they “quite good, but upon further reflection, they feast on bad teams” ?

I agree that the coaching staff in Tampa is suspect. Some refused to see that going into the season.

Do you remember the “you are an idiot if you think this team is going 12-4 or worse” crowd ?

 

[RIpats88]

But DO they have as much talent as advertised ? Or are they “quite good, but upon further reflection, they feast on bad teams” ?

I agree that the coaching staff in Tampa is suspect. Some refused to see that going into the season.

Do you remember the “you are an idiot if you think this team is going 12-4 or worse” crowd ?

Very high chance they are 11-5 after the season ends. Next two are against the Chiefs and Vikings. Considering what Goff did to their defense those two should feast.

To be honest, Brown really hasn't brought much to the team as of yet. his addition was talked up as making them "unstoppable"

 

[farn]

Very high chance they are 11-5 after the season ends. Next two are against the Chiefs and Vikings. Considering what Goff did to their defense those two should feast.

To be honest, Brown really hasn't brought much to the team as of yet. his addition was talked up as making them "unstoppable"

To get to 11-5, if/when they lose to KC, they need to win every game... tough ask for an inconsistant team.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

They have a lot of talent. The coaches are terrible and they arent winning anything with that coaching but Brady is making some god awful plays.
Those picks were brutal. Is not exactly something new, he did that here aswell but with that kind of talent i thought he would be able to hide it a little bit better.

We're seeing a great old QB with sloppy coaching make bad plays and a great old HC's teams not make plays with an OC totally exposed without Brady

 

[DropKickFlutie]

All the best skill position players in the world don't make a difference if you have a coaching staff that has no idea how to properly use Brady's strengths.

The leaks from Silver about what Judge said about Brady before the Giants/Bucs game look more and more like solid analysis and not "denigration" like Silver put it, except for the curious part about his pocket movement. And that part is most likely missing some context (i.e. "he has issues moving in the pocket when pressured from the inside" or whatever).



I get that Brady is hyper competitive and most probably believes that he is awesome at everything so he won't be the one going to the coaches and tell them to re-emphasize the playcalling to areas that are more high percentage. But stats like that are insane.

At some point those doofuses on the Bucs sideline have to realize that Brady is too inconsistent at deep shots and throws outside the numbers and it hurts the team. They have so much ****ing talent on offense that they should be able to feast in the MOF and build from there. But then again we have been spoiled with mostly exceptional coaching for 20 years now.

Ouch

 

[Lagaffe_07]

To get to 11-5, if/when they lose to KC, they need to win every game... tough ask for an inconsistant team.

Tampa bay has the 10th scoring defense in the NFL. They basically only lost against team having a better defense in points/games.

NO: 8th
CHI: 6th
LAR: 2nd

unfortunately for them KC is 7th.

Honestly for them the best scenario would be finish in the seventh seed and play the Seahawks in the wild card.

 

[luuked]

But DO they have as much talent as advertised ? Or are they “quite good, but upon further reflection, they feast on bad teams” ?

They do have a lot of individual talent but their offense feels more like a bunch of individual playcalls taped together.

To me you can clearly see the difference between a great OC who evolves things week to week, starts doing new things out of formations/motions they have shown before, sets plays up for later and has counters ready ahead of time. The Bucs offense feels like someone playing Madden and just randomly picking plays.

Do you remember the “you are an idiot if you think this team is going 12-4 or worse” crowd ?

I mean given their roster the expectation should really be SB or bust for them. I don't think that is an unfair thought. The unfortunate reality for them is that talent alone doesn't decide football games.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

They do have a lot of individual talent but their offense feels more like a bunch of individual playcalls taped together.

To me you can clearly see the difference between a great OC who evolves things week to week, starts doing new things out of formations/motions they have shown before, sets plays up for later and has counters ready ahead of time. The Bucs offense feels like someone playing Madden and just randomly picking plays.

Too bad he can’t see what I write because I totally agree with this assessment.

 

[sb1]

I think the key to stopping the Bucs offense isn’t Brady it’s stopping Jones. They got 2.4 YPC. They like to establish the run and if that doesn’t happen they have a lot of problems. Brady threw 48 times. That can’t happen anymore.

 

[farn]

While I agree with much of what @Lagaffe_07 & @luuked are saying here, the way some posters were acting this summer/early Fall : it was impossible for Tampa to fail. Anyone who suggested Tampa wasn’t the fav - by a large margin - to make and/or win the SB was being ridiculous.

Some posters were saying “you can’t mess this up”, yet here we are. I’m unsurprised at the inconsistant play we’re seeing from Tampa. I had a “donate to a good cause” bet going with someone on here (re: “better than 12-4 record”). Tampa’s already lost 4 times, so...

Tampa will be lucky to finish 10-6. Which is not a bad record at all. But a far cry from the 1980s SF style expectations some posters had for the 2020 Bucs.

 

[farn]

I think the key to stopping the Bucs offense isn’t Brady it’s stopping Jones. They got 2.4 YPC. They like to establish the run and if that doesn’t happen they have a lot of problems. Brady threw 48 times. That can’t happen anymore.

Can’t or shouldn’t ? Remember, Arians.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I think the key to stopping the Bucs offense isn’t Brady it’s stopping Jones. They got 2.4 YPC. They like to establish the run and if that doesn’t happen they have a lot of problems. Brady threw 48 times. That can’t happen anymore.

I agree. Brady has always thrived with play action. It’s when he is at his best. Run the ball, force the LB to go down in the box with play action and hit the open receiver in the middle of field.

Brady, this year, throws 39.36 passes by games on average.

 

[luuked]

While I agree with much of what @Lagaffe_07 & @luuked are saying here, the way some posters were acting this summer/early Fall : it was impossible for Tampa to fail. Anyone who suggested Tampa wasn’t the fav - by a large margin - to make and/or win the SB was being ridiculous.

I agree with your POV completely. I think there has been actually a lot of people that thought Arians is not up to the task and will screw it up. The other aspect that was often mentioned was about the infamous circle of trust of Brady. If it took time for him to trust individual players here how would he do moving to a totally new environment.

The latter point was then waved away by some just due to the talent gap between what the Bucs have on offense and what we have had.

But looking at how the season has gone so far that talent gap has not really led to anything. Yes they beat up on weaker teams -- with the help of their defense -- but were caught with their pants down twice against the Saints, now against the Rams and had one stinker against the Bears.

They will most likely finish 11-5 and have a tough road in the playoffs when there are no more teams weak teams to beat up on. But there is still time to right the ship, self scout and put some adjustments in place on offense.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

While I agree with much of what @Lagaffe_07 & @luuked are saying here, the way some posters were acting this summer/early Fall : it was impossible for Tampa to fail. Anyone who suggested Tampa wasn’t the fav - by a large margin - to make and/or win the SB was being ridiculous.

Some posters were saying “you can’t mess this up”, yet here we are. I’m unsurprised at the inconsistant play we’re seeing from Tampa. I had a “donate to a good cause” bet going with someone on here (re: “better than 12-4 record”). Tampa’s already lost 4 times, so...

Tampa will be lucky to finish 10-6. Which is not a bad record at all. But a far cry from the 1980s SF style expectations some posters had for the 2020 Bucs.

I think they will finish 10-6 at worst. After KC they don’t really play great defenses. I think the talent will be enough to win those games.

they struggled against good D where the talent alone isn’t enough. Like Luuked said they need to play as an offense not as the group of individuals.

they have 5 games to find that and if they do, I think they will be dangerous in the playoffs.

 

[borg]

Using last nights performance as the latest example of Tompa’s struggles in a new system that has him chucking passes wide and deep, Joe Judges’s assessment continues to hold water.

“he struggles when it comes to throwing deep, throwing outside the numbers and moving in the pocket...”

Bill assembled a specific type of roster to compliment his QB’s perceived strengths.
Charlie and Josh designed a specific type of offense to utilize Brady’s strengths and mask his weaknesses.
And no doubt coaches in the coaches room openly discuss the strengths and weaknesses of all their players, including Belichick. To believe Joe Judge’s opinions on Brady are based only on his personal observations defies common sense.

And Brady.... no doubt he believes he can thrive in a wide open, expansive Arians offense.
His deep pass numbers tell a different story.

 

[Steamer86]

If you’re over 12 and shaking hands is a big deal to you than I don’t know what to say to you

It’s a bad look to shake hands when you win, but not when you lose.

 

[sb1]

It’s a bad look to shake hands when you win, but not when you lose.

Or decide that only certain QBs are worthy of your respect after the game. He did shake hands with Brees after the Bucs were blown out.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Or decide that only certain QBs are worthy of your respect after the game. He did shake hands with Brees after the Bucs were blown out.

It is weird. He did it with Foles twice and now Goff. I don’t know if they said or did something he didn’t like but otherwise it looks like he is a sore looser.

 

[sb1]

Super Bowl 50 - Panthers vs. Broncos | NFL Full Game - YouTube

2:32:10

Cam had a lot more reason to be frustrated and upset with this performance than Brady did last night and and yet he still went looking for Fivehead after the game and congratulated him.

The "Brady is frustrated" excuse is not a good one for why you didn't shake the other guy's hand. Tom is better than that or at least I'd like to think so.