PostGame Thread OFFICIAL Post Game Thread - Patriots Fall to Chiefs 27-17

[jeremy2020]

How? How does a team have a worse record than the utter joke that is the 2023 Jets

 

[PatsFan2]

I have to say I can’t really refute the comments that it felt like tanking in the second half. There was no urgency. But I just question why Bill would tank if he wasn’t going to be here next year. Maybe he already knows he’s not going anywhere and wants to lock up at least pick #2.

Ross put the beer down...If BB is coming back as HC only?? I Don't want him back as GM so he can DRAFT the Best ST's players in the Fist and Second Rounds. Let's not forget who we are talking about here.

 

[archstanton543]

How? How does a team have a worse record than the utter joke that is the 2023 Jets

The Jets actually have some guys with talent on offense (and defense too). The reason they got Rodgers is because they were a QB away from competing.

 

[KCSVEN]

If you're desperate, you can either take a 2nd round tackle, or trade back into the 1st round for a

Big problem is that you also need a WR.

I don't think a second-round tackle is desperate. The Tackle depth in this draft is strong with round 1 and round 2 talent. The WR talent is 3 rounds deep. You won't need to reach for a Tackle at top of round 2 and you won't reach for a WR at top of round 3.
Evan Neal was higher rated than any of the tackles in the upcoming draft and he's been kind of a bust. The number of good Tackle prospects is higher than normal though.
The QB talent is 3 deep, after that a crap shoot, and drafting one top of round 2 would be a reach, most of the others are 3rd round talent or less.
Based on depth of the positions in the draft the ideal scenario is QB in 1, Tackle in 2, WR in 3. I think they could snag 3 good players in that order.
The depth of the draft matches up perfectly with what the Pats would want to do.
They also have free agency, Mike Evans, Tee Higgins, Mihael Pittman might be some available Wide Receivers. Maybe Tyron SMith can be had for a stop gap.
They just need to lose out or hope Arizona beats Chicago, Commanders beat the Jets and then the Jets game will likely be moot. They could drop to 4th overall by beating the Jets. NO way they beat Buffalo and Denver in Denver seems like a loss but Denver is hot and cold.

 

[Triumph]

^

I said don’t cry. Week 5 is almost here!

 

[Triumph]

You can survive a bad arm, just can't survive bad decision-making. And the fact he's yet to put together a good second half this year is maddening. Which is frustrating because that wasn't an issue in his two full starts in 2022:

2nd Half vs Detroit:
View attachment 55322

2nd Half at Cleveland:
View attachment 55323

Dink and Dunking only gets you so far vs a QB like Mahomes, Allen, etc who can make every pinpoint throw on the field. Its not just the future HOF QBs either, Goff is throwing ball fantastic. Just like Moose Johnson said about the Mahomes TD pass in the back of the end zone.

 

[bresna]

What's so difficult to understand that losing the next 3 games will be immensely more valuable to you in the long run?

I can't answer that for you. It's a bad take. It's your take.

You can watch however you like but the entertainment I get from them losing games that mean nothing known that it's going to make the off-season that much more entertaining isn't "less" entertaining than the way you approach it.

Just remember. Winning a couple useless games in 2020 is why we were picking 15 and grabbing the 5th QB in the first round instead of in the top 8.

Im not interested in repeating that.

I complain about people here drafting in hindsight but in this case, I have to do it myself...

You do realize that the QB picked at #15 in the 2021 NFL draft has as many Pro Bowls as all 4 of the QBs picked before him? So if the Patriots had lost more games in 2020, they would have had drafted who then? Justin Fields? Trey Lance?

The draft is a crap shoot and a higher draft pick is never any guarantee of a better player.

 

[archstanton543]

The draft is a crap shoot and a higher draft pick is never any guarantee of a better player.

That's not how probability works.

Let's say we're having a raffle and you get one pick of a number between 1 and 10 and I get the rest. The probability of me winning is much much higher than yours.

There are no guarantees in life. Like in my raffle example, you'd have a chance to win. Buy it's unlikely. Wouldn't you rather be the guy who has more numbers in the raffle than fewer? It doesn't guarantee anything, right?

 

[Triumph]

I complain about people here drafting in hindsight but in this case, I have to do it myself...

You do realize that the QB picked at #15 in the 2021 NFL draft has as many Pro Bowls as all 4 of the QBs picked before him? So if the Patriots had lost more games in 2020, they would have had drafted who then? Justin Fields? Trey Lance?

The draft is a crap shoot and a higher draft pick is never any guarantee of a better player.

The 2021 NFL draft had a pile of crap for QBs except for Lawrence who is all hat and no cowboy.

Jax, Indy and Houston all tied at 8 - 6 in the AFCS.

 

[bresna]

That's not how probability works.

Let's say we're having a raffle and you get one pick of a number between 1 and 10 and I get the rest. The probability of me winning is much much higher than yours.

There are no guarantees in life. Like in my raffle example, you'd have a chance to win. Buy it's unlikely. Wouldn't you rather be the guy who has more numbers in the raffle than fewer? It doesn't guarantee anything, right?

I don't understand your point here. We're not talking probability. The NFL draft has proven time & time again that a higher pick is no guarantee of drafting a better NFL player. Yes, if you suck, you get a higher draft pick. But that higher pick is no guarantee that the player could end up being better than one you pick later in the draft.

In the 2021 draft, which is what I was addressing in my earlier comments, there were 4 QBs picked before Mac Jones and only one of them (Trevor Lawrence) made the Pro Bowl, the same number of Pro Bowls as Mac.

If you look at those QBs closer, none of the eight QBs taken in the first 3 rounds of that draft have done much of anything. As a refresher:
No. 1: Trevor Lawrence, Jacksonville Jaguars
No. 2: Zach Wilson, New York Jets
No. 3: Trey Lance, San Francisco 49ers
No. 11: Justin Fields, Chicago Bears
No. 15: Mac Jones, New England Patriots
No. 64: Kyle Trask, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
No. 66: Kellen Mond, Minnesota Vikings
No. 67: Davis Mills, Houston Texans

If you read the numbers in this article, it would seem that any first round QB is a gamble.

 

[archstanton543]

I don't understand your point here. We're not talking probability. The NFL draft has proven time & time again that a higher pick is no guarantee of drafting a better NFL player. Yes, if you suck, you get a higher draft pick. But that higher pick is no guarantee that the player could end up being better than one you pick later in the draft.

In the 2021 draft, which is what I was addressing in my earlier comments, there were 4 QBs picked before Mac Jones and only one of them (Trevor Lawrence) made the Pro Bowl, the same number of Pro Bowls as Mac.

If you look at those QBs closer, none of the eight QBs taken in the first 3 rounds of that draft have done much of anything. As a refresher:
No. 1: Trevor Lawrence, Jacksonville Jaguars
No. 2: Zach Wilson, New York Jets
No. 3: Trey Lance, San Francisco 49ers
No. 11: Justin Fields, Chicago Bears
No. 15: Mac Jones, New England Patriots
No. 64: Kyle Trask, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
No. 66: Kellen Mond, Minnesota Vikings
No. 67: Davis Mills, Houston Texans

If you read the numbers in this article, it would seem that any first round QB is a gamble.

So you want the Pats to draft scared or draft quantity over quality? That's what got them in thus mess their in. They're rarely aggressive in the draft (except to draft kickers, apparently). A top 3 pick gives you the best chance to find a franchise QB. I'm sorry if you don't believe it but it does. Most of the teams that pick that high pick the wrong guy or ruin him because they're a crapply run organization...which is why they're drafting that high.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Can’t get Carr from HOU out of my mind. Good QB who was ruined by a terrible O-line

Or, closer to home, Plunkett.

 

[bresna]

So you want the Pats to draft scared or draft quantity over quality? That's what got them in thus mess their in. They're rarely aggressive in the draft (except to draft kickers, apparently). A top 3 pick gives you the best chance to find a franchise QB. I'm sorry if you don't believe it but it does. Most of the teams that pick that high pick the wrong guy or ruin him because they're a crapply run organization...which is why they're drafting that high.

Again - what are you talking about?? I was responding to this:

Just remember. Winning a couple useless games in 2020 is why we were picking 15 and grabbing the 5th QB in the first round instead of in the top 8.

He is saying that we should have tanked in 2020 to pick a better QB in the 2021 draft. There wasn't a better QB in that draft. Period.

History has shown that any QB taken in the first round is no guarantee that he'll be any good.

 

[sb1]

Again - what are you talking about?? I was responding to this:


He is saying that we should have tanked in 2020 to pick a better QB in the 2021 draft. There wasn't a better QB in that draft. Period.

History has shown that any QB taken in the first round is no guarantee that he'll be any good.

Micah Parsons was available though. In hindsight that was the right pick if the Pats were in position to get him.

 

[bresna]

Micah Parsons was available though. In hindsight that was the right pick if the Pats were in position to get him.

2021 is turning out to be a pretty weak draft. Only 13 out of 253 (5%) have made All Pro. Probably had something to do with the COVID-shortened college seasons prior to it.

 

[lancerman]

How? How does a team have a worse record than the utter joke that is the 2023 Jets

The Jets are a better team overall.

Better defense, their best receivers are better, their best RB is way ahead of ours, their special teams is better.

We are arguably a wash at QB and offensive line.

 

[lancerman]

I complain about people here drafting in hindsight but in this case, I have to do it myself...

You do realize that the QB picked at #15 in the 2021 NFL draft has as many Pro Bowls as all 4 of the QBs picked before him? So if the Patriots had lost more games in 2020, they would have had drafted who then? Justin Fields? Trey Lance?

The draft is a crap shoot and a higher draft pick is never any guarantee of a better player.

You can find a single bad draft at a position anywhere. You play the odds.

The 2021 draft ended up being poor for QB's in general. The only remotely competent QB was the first overall. The 2023 first round produced Stroud, the 2020 draft produced Burrow/Herbert/Tua, the 2019 draft produced Murray, the 2018 draft produced Mayfield, Jackson and Allen, 2017 produced Mahomes and Watson, 2016 produced Goff.

Add in Lawrence and 11of the competent starters in the current NFL are from the first round of the last 8 years. So a third of the league. Then you have other starters from years past being in the first round like Stafford, Rodgers.

And that's just solid guys CURRENTLY playing well. The Steelers are still rolling with Pickett, the Bears are either rolling with Fields OR drafting again in the first round, the Colts went for a first rounder etc.

Hurts, Dak and Purdy are the primary QB's that are really at the top level that are not first rounders. That's a much bigger crap shoot than going in the first round again and again

 

[upstater1]

I don't understand your point here. We're not talking probability. The NFL draft has proven time & time again that a higher pick is no guarantee of drafting a better NFL player. Yes, if you suck, you get a higher draft pick. But that higher pick is no guarantee that the player could end up being better than one you pick later in the draft.

In the 2021 draft, which is what I was addressing in my earlier comments, there were 4 QBs picked before Mac Jones and only one of them (Trevor Lawrence) made the Pro Bowl, the same number of Pro Bowls as Mac.

If you look at those QBs closer, none of the eight QBs taken in the first 3 rounds of that draft have done much of anything. As a refresher:
No. 1: Trevor Lawrence, Jacksonville Jaguars
No. 2: Zach Wilson, New York Jets
No. 3: Trey Lance, San Francisco 49ers
No. 11: Justin Fields, Chicago Bears
No. 15: Mac Jones, New England Patriots
No. 64: Kyle Trask, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
No. 66: Kellen Mond, Minnesota Vikings
No. 67: Davis Mills, Houston Texans

If you read the numbers in this article, it would seem that any first round QB is a gamble.

I went several years back and I found that there were 22 picks in the first round. Only 6 panned out if you don't count Jordan Love.

So drafting 1st rd QBs give you a 40% chance of landing one at best. If you're the Jets, Bills or Dolphins, your chances are closer to 10%

 

[50-yard-line]

Only a matter of time before he starts trolling the KC fanbase with the anti-mahomes rhetoric.

They've done extensive studies on how and why people use the internet and social media. When you look at the background information, in many cases, it's actually pretty pathetic, from cries for help to outright Sadism.

True trolling is the mark of a Sadist.

And as I posted in the GDT, half the reason entertainers (athletes, authors, actors) get paid is because they give miserable people something to whine about.

We've now got a few here who will take ANY event and play the side of it to bash BB. Reid compliments Bill, so now it's pity that the Chiefs didn't run it up (BB would have done the same thing on the field in reverse), for example. Pats play conservative, terrible coaching...if they went on 4th down and didn't get it, it would be terrible coaching. if they lose the game it's bad, if they win the game, "What an idiot! Cost them draft position!"

It's just misery screaming at the wall at this point.
Or it's butthurt because they've convinced themselves that it was BB personally who chased Brady out of town.
Or they're posters from other team boards here to Felgerize this board.
Or they're just Sadists.

 

[50-yard-line]

What's so difficult to understand that losing the next 3 games will be immensely more valuable to you in the long run?

I can't answer that for you. It's a bad take. It's your take.

You can watch however you like but the entertainment I get from them losing games that mean nothing known that it's going to make the off-season that much more entertaining isn't "less" entertaining than the way you approach it.

Just remember. Winning a couple useless games in 2020 is why we were picking 15 and grabbing the 5th QB in the first round instead of in the top 8.

Im not interested in repeating that.

You two are arguing over two sides of the same coin.

You both want the same thing. I'd love that 1st or 2nd pick at this point, but it's no guarantee of anything.

Who will be the franchise guy coming out this year, Maye or Williams? Or will it be Nix or Penix or Ewers (if he comes out) or McCarthy or Daniels or...

And who is even coming out? Harrison Jr will make more money staying in college next year than he's make on his rookie deal in the NFL, by some reports. I suspect Williams is in that same camp. The NIL changes have made seeing who opts for the draft the greatest mystery of all.